Attack on PNS Mehran Base - PAF Faisal Base

[niaz]

I guess it is uncharacteristic of me but the way i see it...we need to sacrifice some people even if not guilty of personal failure but failure due to treachery of others.
Just to set an example that if it happens on your watch...it is indeed a failure. In case that we believe the claims that there was no inside hand, then it is even more critical to punish the entire chain of command which was handling security…right to the top commander.
This accountability and shame should start from the base commander himself. He may be a good guy but does not matter anymore.

After all, there is a limit to how much we should tolerate in way of brazen attacks amidst military facilities where the terrorists have a lot of know how where and when to strike and have ample munitions stored conveniently to carry on fighting for many many hours.
Surely the boot needs to be given to certain people and a very clear message needs to be sent to the generals, officers and soldiers...nothing shall go unpunished and it shall start from top.
The soldiers look upto their officers who look upto their generals.
The respect needs to be earned and can be lost when such things happen and no heads are rolled.

The command is supposed to own its mistakes and not disown its failure by singing praises of training and advanced tactics used by the terrorists.
We are at war here after all; we are supposed to be facing a determined enemy.
Instead of analyzing our own mistakes we make the enemy seem 10 times stronger and demoralize the soldiers and the nation who give too much respect to these rabid dogs.

The admiral is not alone in this attitude and that is what worries me.
Is the admiral not following suite here because he has seen other failures which went unpunished?

Sure there were indeed investigations and punishments on a lower level but certainly there has been no senior commander who has yet been sacrificed to ensure that the attitude becomes much more unforgiving towards such negligence.
Would a few high level court martials/resignations over GHQ or Abbottabad not have at least created an environment where there is no shyness in promising punishment for those whose negligence or support resulted in a disaster?

Till heads are not rolling, we shall not see the leaders openly embracing the truth in front of the nation.
I think Military leadership has to set an example of accountability after these series of breaches in our defense. We all need a clear policy defined by our leadership based on ground realities which they should share with us. With civilian and military leadership both defending their decisions and stances we shall not have any strategy shift.
I hope the military uses these breaches to highlight not only its own shortfalls but also the many reasons why this is happening…throw the ball in the court of civilian leadership and ask them why there is no accountability of support network while military is sent to fight the terrorists. Do raise the question that if on one hand our provincial ministers meet the outlawed and banned outfits which have actually joined up with TTP…how we can achieve clarity about who is the enemy?
Why should we expect that there shall be no split within nation or military if the leadership has not qualified the enemy?
I hope the military leadership realizes that it can indeed save Pakistan but it shall have to start by setting its own house in order and using these measures to drive the political leadership into a corner by demanding a clear cut national policy which the military and ISI have to follow regarding this phenomena.
TTP is only strong because we are shy to admit that it has some supporters which walk free...
TTP is only strong because they are sitting on the drug and major smuggling routes and have absorbed all the criminal syndicates to give rise to an uber terrorist mafia which is earning a lot of black money and is also a mercenary force for hire...

TTP can be eliminated but for that we need an approach where all the organs of this mafia are targeted.

Clean up the military front via military actions.
I disagree with Imran Khan here despite always supporting him as a good guy.
He said the same right after Buner operation was launched...yet had we sent him to negotiate with the TTP he would have been butchered by them as well. In this he is not yet completely aware of the power these people hold via twisting Islam.
You need to realize what TTP stands for
To mix them with our own people and look for dialogue is the mistake that has killed thousands of Pakistanis and given rise to their credibility.
We should realize that when you talk with TTP and appoint clerics like Sufi Muhammad as middle men, they are usually able to associate more with each other than with Pakistan and us poor Pakistanis...this is evident when Fazlullah was talked to by Sufi Muhammad and despite Pakistani state bending over...the rascals of TTP instead gloated and demanded more and more....they are power hungry monsters who feed on a twisted religious mentality...they can never ever welcome any stability, development and peace which brings mental growth and maturity.
The clerics are mostly sympathetic to TTP ideology and are certainly not bothered with Pakistan as much as their own power base in the name of Islam...they have a business case with or without Pakistan since by twisting the peoples thoughts their hold over the people is strong.
Actually a destabilized Pakistan suits them since the more chaos there is, the less education and lesser the prospects of a normal life for youngsters....a most fertile ground for hate based propaganda to take root in young minds in the name of religion.
To say that no military action is required is indeed folly and i think this is where Imran Khan is wrong.
However to say that military action alone is the solution is not something i am saying.
The only approach is to use military where the militants are well entrenched and then bring in law enforcement and enforce the law instead of socializing with those elements who are political players since they have influence on the terrorists to some extent...
sorry but this is not something i can call as a strategic dialogue...we do this from the wrong perspective and count on these quasi terrorist sympathizers to negotiate some truce.
This is how we delegated our authority to TTP...
This is the lesson that the martyrdom of many Pakistanis in Swat taught us...never trust the clerics and the Mullahs to help stabilize Pakistan.
They opposed its creation and are not much bothered about it.
There is no dialogue with TTP as it is a criminal/terrorist franchise and any law shall be most unwelcome news for it.

How much more can we tolerate outlaws?

Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings
This should include targeting the sectarian killing schools of religious thought which have a strong base in Punjab and still have strong political ties with PML-N...this can be done by law enforcement agencies....honestly!
However when law minister of Punjab socializes with lashker e Jhangvi, i am sure it is not about lacking capability but lacking intent due to other motivations!
Prosecution of the ones in charge of hate filled lashkars is absolutely necessary to eliminate the violence and the atmosphere in which young minds are brainwashed by clerics and taught about heavenly merits of hating other sects due to their flawed Islam ...certainly a most twisted ideology but only condemned in carefully guarded words...never in action.

Create an atmosphere where hate spewing people are held accountable
We should try all those in courts who create unrest by promoting hate and violence in the name of religion, sect, creed, ethnicity etc.
Tolerating such goons is what has caused our society to degenerate to this level, we need to take such things deadly serious.

Our civilian and military leadership needs to own their mistakes and set examples.
If they fail to do so then we should come in the streets...but not under a counter ideology where we want a different system...certainly not now when all such counter ideologies are owned by dodgy characters which are being supported by different hands to gain leverage.
We first need to work towards a more aware society which accepts the flaws instead of just giving into conspiracy theories in order to jump into the arms of any particular camp.
Be patient my friends...we can have any system we want and certainly laws can be modified but our problem is not the system but selective implementation of laws!
Why should we cry Islamic system and then see TTP hijacking it?
Let us cry for justice, accountability and education.
These are the things that all the enemies of Pakistan are shy of and all the well wishers of Pakistan want.
Let us first get some values back in our country and improve our social awareness.

Do understand that today we need to implement a system...there are many things which are right in the current system but due to lack of implementation they are rendered useless.
Let us work with the system we have and first use our strength to change the corrupt and inefficient faces and replace them with the clean ones who have seen that any major vice is punished by a socially aware Pakistani nation.

If you say that in Islamic system the rulers are supposed to be good men then please analyze what you are saying...Pakistani constitution is not un-Islamic and even in our constitution one cannot hold office if one is of bad repute even...then is it fault of our system that corruption is rampant?
Sure we can improve the system and introduce new laws in tune with developing realities!
Sure, it may well be that a true Islamic system is indeed something that can bring great dividends for Pakistan.
But is the current scenario due to a failure of system or a failure of system implementation?

Can the any system including an Islamic system not fail if implemented wrongly?
Yes it can, remember Taliban and how they derailed and focused their energies on some really pathetic things like mandatory beards etc.?
Remember how their Islam did not tolerate others (Hazara Shias) Islam?
Do we really want to give these people legitimacy?
Why not clean all the crazies and denounce them so that after 10-20 years the people learn to segregate between the khariji terrorist ideology of a twisted Islam and truly Islamic values which are indeed worthy of working towards and implementing.
Let us also acknowledge the complete set of problems.

The current dilemma we face internally is because people have hijacked Pakistan and its identity in the name of their brand of Islam which is more like the Islam of Kharijis than of any sane person...however this is the sad truth.
Whether my Pakistani brothers want democracy or a modern Islamic system (unlike the stupid and barbaric version of any Taliban)...they need to see this Khariji ideology for what it is...the number one enemy of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
If you implement democracy then the holier than thou clerics and militants will say it is Un-Islamic; on the other hand if you implement the best Islamic system they will still brand it as a conspiracy against the true Islam and a sham.

We gave them Sharia laws in Swat and after few days when the Sharia courts started announcing punishments for the Taliban who had captured property of others or were harassing others, the Taliban suddenly wanted more and were not satisfied with the Sharia...
Of course why would they be satisfied with any Law which holds them accountable like ordinary men?

My Pakistani brothers and sisters...please stop being influenced by different sects and camps which only end up dividing us and harming Pakistan.
We have to stop harping the tune of others and need to realize that our collective goal is to get a Pakistan where people are held accountable and there is justice and fair play...which lead to true strength.
This needs not just education but a collective conscience which we need to build ourselves.
A social awareness by virtue of which our people are conscious enough to not let anyone harm Pakistan whether in name of Islam, liberalism, ethnicity or any other basis.

We need to focus on the lofty values which are indeed the foundation of any good system...justice, accountability, law and order!
When you have a society where there are at least some values that are good...you can build it further and tailor it more towards your finer needs.

However today, let us come together and draw a line where anyone who is harming Pakistan and wants to promote violence and intolerance is branded as our enemy instead of being honored with a cult following.
Let us unite on some primary things and help bring stability back to the motherland.
When the dust settles and we achieve normalcy, let us work peacefully towards whatever direction we want Pakistan to take.
Let us unify in promoting some values which we all want and let us back it up with our voices and presence in the streets if the leadership fails us.
Let us be much more vocal and active in denouncing all the flaws and errors made so that the rulers and leaders are checked and an environment conducive for positive changes is created.
Let us love Pakistan and protect it from all enemies whether internal or external.

Totally agree. However there is a section of Pak society including politicians, media men, MNA's, members of the armed forces and also some members of this forum to whom Pakistan comes a distant second. This group will go to any length towards achieving their goal of establishing a dark age Islamic Emirate in Pakistan. How are you going to convince these naive people to stop providing support and help to the terrorists.

For them the terrorists are doing Allah's work. None of the things you mention takes them to heaven whereas helping the terrorists does.

 

[VelocuR]

When will Pakistan Army including 180 million population WAR against North and South Wazirisktan ???

 

[Roybot]

Has there been any statements issued by the President or the Prime minister?

 

[Pioneerfirst]

According to military officials and intelligence about 10-12 terrorists laced with sophisticated weapons and grenades entered PNS Mehran PAF Museum.

Does this mean 6-8 terrorists escaped? not good ...

The number of terrorist is still not clear,The type of resistant and firing was not a work of 6 people.
Can six people carry this huge amount of weapons and jump 10' wall?
After it was disclosed,always preferance is to cordon off the area,but still they escapped????
There may have been some terrorist captured and is being kept secret.As Pakistan did after arresting some Al-Qaida and Taliban figures and disclosed after weeks when investigation was finished.

 

[Hindustani]

Fog of war?

Perhaps.. let's wait and see..

 

[MumbaiIndians]

It is in US+European interests to keep Pakistan boiling and worsen the regional security situation.

It helps their own industries. India buying more heavy and bigger weapons in hurry.

China is also happy. Throw a few JF-17 and makes India spend even more on security.

ISI+Pak-Army is also happy, free weapons, free money. But losers are people of this region.

 

[SQ8]

It is not about poverty. If you are carrying heavy weapons, you are dealing with similarly armed opponents, should not you be better protected?
Nothing wrong with T shirt though. They look sexy.

When you already have other numerous highly trained forces equipped with the necessary equipment.. and it will be them taking on the terrorists .. and this guy is only doing the third tier perimeter watch..
you still want to equip him with 100000 lac worth of equipment??

 

[Sky_123]

When will Pakistan Army including 180 million population WAR against North and South Wazirisktan ???

Now Army+Rangers+Police should start operation against all Jehadies terrorists and clear Pak from these elements.

 

[T-Faz]

Totally agree. However there is a section of Pak society including politicians, media men, MNA's, members of the armed forces and also some members of this column to whom Pakistan comes a distant second. This group will go to any length towards achieving their goal of establishing a dark age Islamic Emirate in Pakistan. How are you going to convince these naive people to stop providing support and help to these terrorists.

For them the terrorists are doing Allah's work. None of the things you mention takes them to heaven whereas helping the terrorists does.

This is the problem when religion and state are fused together and as this religion is not only found within this nation, the foreign variations can influence and perverse the teachings of religion.

Initially the country has to limit the influence of religion and religious parties to put an end to this madness. Look at the harm that has been caused by all this and to this day a lot of people openly support the terrorists because they are apparently doing gods work.

When you have entire generations who grew up with violent variations of religion, this had to occur but now is the time to take harsh action against the perpetrators.

Its Pakistan first and Pakistan alone, any one who disagrees should be removed or held out of important positions.

 

[Hammy007]

Totally agree. However there is a section of Pak society including politicians, media men, MNA's, members of the armed forces and also some members of this column to whom Pakistan comes a distant second. This group will go to any length towards achieving their goal of establishing a dark age Islamic Emirate in Pakistan. How are you going to convince these naive people to stop providing support and help to these terrorists.

For them the terrorists are doing Allah's work. None of the things you mention takes them to heaven whereas helping the terrorists does.

with guy as intelligent as you,, i hope zardari makes you his personal advisor, or i must say obama makes you his personal advisor, so that you can shower your divine wisdom, any crime scene will no need any investigators, detectives and the medical team responsible to post mortem the bodies, the defence analysts as within 2 seconds you can tell who is responsible and what should be done

 

[Xeric]

@AG

For this to happen we first have to establish that there was indeed a serious security lapse on the part of those who commanded the Naval Base. i am not ruling out the possibility of a sleeping security guard/sentry/CCTV room NCO etc, but then primarily it is because of the paucity of resources. i would not divulge more into this as talking about the security arrangements we have in place in our cantts/bases would not be a bright thing to do. Only that, i may like to have the entire fence around the cantt electrified, but i may not be able to do that, i may want to shift the entire base (for instance the GHQ) to a more defendable and 'out of reach' place, but i may not be able to do that, i may like to employed a battalion plus for the round the clock out cordon of a military installation but then i may not have enough troops for the purpose, i may like to have three check posts ahead of my main check post so that if some bugger wants to blow himself up, he can do it at the first check post thus limiting the quantum of damage, but then either i may not have enough resources at my disposal for the purpose or that the sheer lack of space, crowdiness of the area and the installation being amidst a huge city or because my initiative may bother the lazy civilian traffic around the base etc may bar me from and so on and so forth.

But then you are also correct in saying that unless a few at the top are not slaughtered via court martials and sacking (this includes both the military and civilians), things might to start rolling in the right direction (the direction that ask us to be very very very careful regarding the security of our military installations).

i agree that there's a need of a hard awakening among our leadership, suicide attacks and armed assaults have failed to do that, so may be a few court martials, resignations and sackings might get the job done.

 

[Hammy007]

Now Army+Rangers+Police should start operation against all Jehadies terrorists and clear Pak from these elements.

if you are so willing, go there and be the first one to sacrifice your lives and your family lives and stop lecturing others thanks

 

[S.M.R]

Did he just rolled off the bed , put on his beret and came to fight terrorists armed to the teeth. Where is his uniform, bullet proof jacket and webbing. I saw in news many of your Ranger soldiers walking around wearing T-Shirts with name RANGER stamped on the back. Is this not their drill uniform. Why are they wearing this in a combat zone. Their SOP kind of sucks.

They are not the operational force. These rangers keep doing flag March on Karachi Roads. All rangers vehicles came to the site when they heard firing / blasts.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

with guy as intelligent as you,, i hope zardari makes you his personal advisor, or i must say obama makes you his personal advisor, so that you can shower your divine wisdom, any crime scene will no need any investigators, detectives and the medical team responsible to post mortem the bodies, the defence analysts as within 2 seconds you can tell who is responsible and what should be done

American president doesn't care about people in South Asia. He works for American interests.

Come out of your lala-land.

 

[S.M.R]

RANG LAYAY GA SHAHEEDON KA LAHOOOO