Attack on PAF Base Minhas

[Imran Khan]

wo tabaah kery na kery humary forum waly zaroor ker deen gay

 

[Windjammer]

My concern is not what this news source had to say few months back neither i am buying your comments nor nuclearpaks

But my concern is obvious if only one aircraft damaged then why there is so much hustle in PAF ranks, why they are not willing to release the report even after 3 days, why statement from each official contradicts other's , these are official guys not sarak chap so why are they not able to get on one single point rather coming up with contradictions. If just 1 aircraft damaged that too slightly then they should be proudly saying that we have defended our assets rather then being at the back burners .

To the extent i know PAF my intuition is there is something seriously wrong. You can call me pessimist but i am happy with that because i know what over-optimism has given us .

When PNS mehran attack happened we had many over-patriotic people defending the naval forces failure and saying military will come out more stronger after this attack and there will be no attacks in the future blah blah . But time and time again we have seen what we are upto .

Again i am repeating i am not believing on what any guy has to say may it be nuclearpak, or whoever but seriously i am sensing something really fishy. If ALLAH forbid it is true what the news mentions then 600 million dollars goes down the drain . For a cash strapped country who is even finding hard to fund its homer grown fighters costing a slightest of fractions per unit compared to erieye ,its a heck lot amount... and still if we dont see any action form military against the hands that were involved that i am done with this "i love my military" stuff .... it will be a big RIP

If you check the PAF website, even the Mirage crash which happened a day or two before the Kamra incident is not mentioned.
Firstly, during Ramazan, every one seems to knock off at around 1.00 PM, then you had the Independence day holiday, now the weekend and the Eid break. To be honest, i am not expecting a statement before Monday.
While we are going on about the SAAB, the TTP were claiming JF-17s, and all others pointing to some damage to an IL-76.

 

[Manticore]

Spreading misinformation is the main objective of paf at the moment --- dont be over zealous in finding and posting the truth on the forum , rather spread misinformation if you can -- This is exactly what nabil and santro would be doing aswell -- a cloud of uncertainty should prevail

 

[Bratva]

If you check the PAF website, even the Mirage crash which happened a day or two before the Kamra incident is not mentioned.
Firstly, during Ramazan, every one seems to knock off at around 1.00 PM, then you had the Independence day holiday, now the weekend and the Eid break. To be honest, i am not expecting a statement before Monday.
While we are going on about the SAAB, the TTP were claiming JF-17s, and all others pointing to some damage to an IL-76.

Instead of Focusing mistakes of media, focus on what PAF official spokesperson said, RPG pierced the hangar where SAAB awacs was stationed. How many RPG's fired? no mention? Was it a fluke that ONE RPG pierced the hangar and damaged the Awacs? PAF contradicted itself to minor to substantial to Nose damage.

Spreading misinformation is the main objective of paf at the moment --- dont be over zealous in finding and posting the truth on the forum , rather spread misinformation if you can -- This is exactly what nabil and santro would be doing aswell -- a cloud of uncertainty should prevail

Unfortunately in Pakistan case, uncertainty is spread not to confuse the enemy but to hide the damage we have suffered.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Media reporting important arrests made in Lahore. Further breakthrough expected soon

 

[TAC]

My concern is not what this news source had to say few months back neither i am buying your comments nor nuclearpaks

But my concern is obvious if only one aircraft damaged then why there is so much hustle in PAF ranks, why they are not willing to release the report even after 3 days, why statement from each official contradicts other's , these are official guys not sarak chap so why are they not able to get on one single point rather coming up with contradictions. If just 1 aircraft damaged that too slightly then they should be proudly saying that we have defended our assets rather then being at the back burners .

To the extent i know PAF my intuition is there is something seriously wrong. You can call me pessimist but i am happy with that because i know what over-optimism has given us .

When PNS mehran attack happened we had many over-patriotic people defending the naval forces failure and saying military will come out more stronger after this attack and there will be no attacks in the future blah blah . But time and time again we have seen what we are upto .

Again i am repeating i am not believing on what any guy has to say may it be nuclearpak, or whoever but seriously i am sensing something really fishy. If ALLAH forbid it is true what the news mentions then 600 million dollars goes down the drain . For a cash strapped country who is even finding hard to fund its homer grown fighters costing a slightest of fractions per unit compared to erieye ,its a heck lot amount... and still if we dont see any action form military against the hands that were involved that i am done with this "i love my military" stuff .... it will be a big RIP

'hustle in PAF ranks' care to explain what this means?

Have you ever known a report of such an attack to be compiled and released within 3 days?

You have PAF statement saying 1 aircraft damaged and you have the Defence Minister saying the same with more detail of the damage / repair -- not sure what else people need. Also note that this debate about exact extent of damage is not going on anywhere other than forums - nobody in the media has questioned the official version - perhaps if they had PAF may have been forced to prove their version. I doubt PAF high ups spend time worring about individual views on forums.

 

[iPhone]

They say where there is smoke, there is fire.

Something sinister probably happened to the Saab, hoping nothing, but over time it'll become clear.

 

[TAC]

Do you expect Shahid Latif to disclose truth on TV? And the Beloved PAF has changed it's statements multiple time now. PAF Spokesperson first said, no damage, than slight damage than Substantial damage to One asset he can not name. Even PAF is nervous about disclosing the damage they suffer

Errr .. yes I do expect Shahid Lateef to speak the truth -- He is a respected and retired officer with no axe to grind. While you say Paf has contradicted itself -- they have said 1 aircraft all along. 1 persons slight damage can be another persons substantial damage and both can be nose damage.

 

[Safriz]

Spreading misinformation is the main objective of paf at the moment --- dont be over zealous in finding and posting the truth on the forum , rather spread misinformation if you can -- This is exactly what nabil and santro would be doing aswell -- a cloud of uncertainty should prevail

nabil was here few pages ago and he was adamant that awacs are safe and undamaged,

 

[Bratva]

Errr .. yes I do expect Shahid Lateef to speak the truth -- He is a respected and retired officer with no axe to grind. While you say Paf has contradicted itself -- they have said 1 aircraft all along. 1 persons slight damage can be another persons substantial damage and both can be nose damage.

What do you expect and What PAF higher up expect their man should say on TV is two different

nabil was here few pages ago and he was adamant that awacs are safe and undamaged,

He is totally wrong this time and his source has fed him the false news this time.

 

[Windjammer]

Instead of Focusing mistakes of media, focus on what PAF official spokesperson said, RPG pierced the hangar where SAAB awacs was stationed. How many RPG's fired? no mention? Was it a fluke that ONE RPG pierced the hangar and damaged the Awacs? PAF contradicted itself to minor to substantial to Nose damage.

So now you are saying, PAF has made an official statement or you are just mentioning what media reported, quoting the PAF spokesman.

 

[Bratva]

So now you are saying, PAF has made an official statement or you are just mentioning what media reported, quoting the PAF spokesman.

What PAF spokesman said was wrong?

 

[BATMAN]

Hi,

Good man---good post---. Good analysis---I think and I firmly believe that pak millitary really lacks in leadership management during crisis---. I know for a fact that they are extremely thick headed and not open to fresher ideas.

But that aside---what happened to the dog patrols---does pak millitarty not have dog patrols around sensitive installations any more---.

I remember in the late 60's when I use to travel with my dad from quetta to chaman on the train----their was a massive ammunition depot on the right side of the track in the mountains---I would see soldiers with dog patrol.

What is happening in pakistan makes me believe in what I have been thinking that during this crisis that has the pakistan millitary officers mental capabilities really taken a turn for the worst---at every chance and at every oppurtunity during this wot---they have taken position one worst than the other----you can only brag about your honor loyalty and steadfastness for so long----.

Bottomline is that you have to learn to use your brains---pak millitary needs to change its mindset---it needs to have better trained NCO----NCO's that can take charge of the situation and lead from the front---just like in the u s millitary----.

Your mistakes of the past come to haunt you---pak millitary needs to have a better situational awareness and better tactics to face problems----it also needs a better spokes person---actually a better tactical spokesperson in the world media forum.

Plus the general don't need to make any statements about starting a strike after eid----.

Now let me ask in all seriousness----what the fcuk is wrong with pak millitary----why can't they start a millitary action without telling it to the public and the terrorists---why does pak millitary need to make a fool of itself in front of the world all the time----if they want to start a war against the miscreants---then why wait for after the eid---a war is war---you strike hard---you strike hard at a point and time of your chosing----over here neither there is a time of their chosing nor a point----the trrorists know that they are coming the world knows that they are coming---the terrorists have struck first---the terrorists have struck first blood.

This is not a world class millitary----it is not even when it comes to fight against india---other than that it has proven to be horrible---absolutely pathetic in performance---. Its security openly challenged---its generals openly assasinated for not following security directives---case in point----the doctor general----its millitary headquarters taken under siege---its special services group base lunch room under terrorist attack---its media---the pakistani media working against the pakistani millitary in pakistan---pak millitary can't even control that in pakistan---pak media acting as a spokesperson and display screen for the terrorists---and this fools army has its head stuck between its legs----it is utterly dismaying.

This millitary is so bad and so pathetic that it can't even justify to the public the good that it has done---here is how bad pak millitary is as compared to the u s millitary----. In the u s millitary where a 3 stripes seargent or a 2nd Lt can make a public statement in front of the media and TV---in pakistan---we need a one star---a two star general to do that.

Pak millitary needs some serious help---right now---its biggest enemy its own self.

The biggest and the stupidest things that the pak millitary does---it is not in times of war---it is times of peace---it is during the 23rd march parade---and you know what it is---when the general observing the march stands in the jeep----which is moving---but there are no bars in front to hold your position in case you have a mishap----.

Pak millitary has the mentality that it shows machismo by doing that---only if they knew they just a step away from disaster and a world class embarrassment on the world tv media for pakistan---what a bunch of-----.

I almost, fully agree with MK here.

Pak army cannot every time come and cry that it is waiting for orders!
You will never get orders from present breed of politicians and co-operation from dollar fed bureaucracy.
Every politician and bureaucrat have already moved his family abroad, they have nothing to loose in Pakistan, it include, family of CJ.
They are in Pakistan, only to earn dollars, which they will spend in some night club of UK with Indian models.

MK, Kamara was my night mare since 2006, and i doubt if Pakistan security officials shared same fears!

Pakistan army chief tells us its war of nation, but nation is toothless! instead, looking at him as sole savior!

Still if he need support, most of us can only help with advise! Is he willing to listen any advice?
If yes than, I beg him to contact design engineers for building up an early warning security perimeter.
I beg him to do what ever... what ever is necessary to get to the traitors, make a horrible example out of them..

Coming back to the subjet;
Have you realized every thing was lying bare naked across the only obstruction, described as 9 ft wall + 3 feet barbed fence.
I tell you, it is not insider Islamist who are helping.... it is insider seculars, who are helping those militants...
Now some one, give me some caption for this moment:

It was not possible for terrorists to achieve success, without co-ordination of various factors, and assurances.
There are simply too many and too basic negligence of base commander, and even higher ups who thought one wall is good enough to guard multi billion dollar facility from rockets.

Now very soon you will see SAMs in this theater, and I'm afraid, current breed of higher-ups will still be singing 'Dilli hanooz dooooor ast'.

There is simply no co-ordination among the intelligence agencies and the bases commanders.

Like it or not.. fact is there was no security on the eve and no one saw militants approaching the wall with logistics.
They even crossed the wall, and than one!!!!!!! only one! guard...... how come you depute guards in single?

 

[karan.1970]

I disagree completely, subordinates draw inspiration and courage from their senior officers. In the realm of the Armed Forces, your senior is your god, he says, you do but when he fights besides you, when he puts his own life and guts on the line and not just yours, that's when his subordinates perform the best. They see a role model and they seek to out do him, that's how the military has been able to secure success in all theatres in the WoT. I have seen both type of officers, those that fight in the thick of it and those that send their men in on their own instead and let me assure you that the former not only fight the best but are always prepared for more. We had 128 men come in from a 4 day long ambush in Bajaur in 2008, they rested for 4 hours and under the leadership of their commandant who had fought alongside them all along, they went back in and fought for another week. I do not subscribe to your ideas because I have seen the effectiveness of a fearless and dynamic leader in combat and such a leader will always be worthy of my respect.

I fully agree with you.. XYON's post defies everything about leading from front.. And if there was any place where leading from the front is a must, its in armed forces.. A man can at most go to 100% by his own will.. After that every ounce of additional effort (which generally makes a difference between a win and a loss) comes either out of respect for your commander or camaraderie with your fellows...

I dont know if I said this before in this thread or not, but Respect for the Base commander.. This is stuff legends are made of...

It mentions that 1 saab-2000 erieye is totally destroyed along with one hangar while the second saab-2000 erieye is severely damaged

This kind of ties in with the initial claims of TTP spokesperson who said that they had hit 3 planes (though I think they mentioned JF 17s)

 

[Safriz]

Mobile phones found with dead terrorists....