At least one country is trying to listen to its 'Father of the Nation' - Ashok Swain

[VCheng]

@VCheng @Krptonite

Great post, but I can only wish for the freedom to respond here, the absence of which forces me to just say "Mmmm...hmmmm".

 

[Yaseen1]

i think we should nuke india if they continue to desecrate and destroy Muslim places of worship and continue to kill them.

 

[Krptonite]

Honestly the threads regarding Ayodhya/RSS/BJP/Modi or whatever are illuminating a psyche in itself w.r.t many Pakistani members here.

If you are truly a separate, distinct identity...why this much focus and attention to India? Our muslims are our citizens....the Imam of Delhi Masjid said it quite curtly when Musharraf went there (birthplace touring) and starting whinging about if "Pakistan" can do something to "help" Indian muslims.....i.e "sod off, none of your business".

You are what you are through actions, not endless theories (which are most relevant during a generational genesis/revolution that marks the broad time periods).

The actions of the PDF whinge-spam bots (about the woe is the muslim predicament in India...rather than focusing on their own country) running into pages of continued circle-jerk and mob antic shout-cry fests says more than anything else can (well past the sheer amount of cringe).

Simply put, its our country, our nation, our matter. You claim to recognise this in deepest way by cleaving your own country away right? So why this continued persistent nebulosity? Is it not hypocritical?

We have through our own toil earned credibility as a free nation with basic credible institutions, as judged by fellow free nation peers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EIU_Democracy_Index_2017.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freedom_in_the_World_2018.svg

We simply dont (at least any longer) take any patronising sermons from others, especially non-free non-credible ones (and brothers who arbitrarily think they are Abel and we are Cain...and thus have a huge near-insurmountable chip on shoulder from onset). That too their deep set problems are far worse (be it multi-dimensional poverty on the ground or musical chair cabals up in the lofty elite power-games).

Thus sermons of that nature would be better directed towards themselves foremost....to EARN credibility (through combined, concerted actions and deeds in the end) and all else that matters, so the time-waste soap box is firm and tall and the preaching commensurately matters (and can actually be heard and has value above the rabble and din) too.

When you do take patronising sermons seriously in the inner psyche (for whatever reason), isn't it inevitable that you become pawns like the case with you lot and the oil sheikhs in how they gleefully accept their lofty patron role with no effort? Are they to blame solely, or is there blame among yourselves too for cultivating this complex within? Then the other patrons gather, seeing the model is validated and their interests can be promoted exclusively and easily (even if at the expense of yours).

Then the shrieking of cruel abandonment starts its own chorus when the patrons start reneging on whatever was "implied" in "promises" from "whenever". This to me is the true sign of weakness in psyche of a people...onus is on them to fix it. Buck up and sort it out...rather than point fingers (and get pointed back at) first thing. That just gets nowhere good. Simply thinking you win a battle by how far you (perceive with little to no reference, except own ego) can throw a spear is pretty darn stupid...it makes you a soft spectacle....and your own worst enemy.

@VCheng @Krptonite

It's cathartic I think, knocking India down gives lots of people here solace and a sense of identity, happens everywhere, confirmation bias in action.

Posters have started to imagine the end of civilization as we know it, momentum of history they call it, don't ask for clarifications on that though, not much that be debated or argued against the world ending.

 

[War Thunder]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1193189548173471744

Why does Asif Ghafoor need to be harsh on just every one.
This guy is actually saying something right, you don't need to be like an army person with him.
Just let him be.

i think we should nuke india if they continue to desecrate and destroy Muslim places of worship and continue to kill them.

Yeah so let's help them and destroy everything in one go for them? And destroy ourselves in the process and prove we are no better than them in being monkey brain?
Do you people even think before posting just anything?

 

[CriticalThinker02]

I am not an intellectual kind of person...But i personally feel, when Pakistan was decided to be created for Subcontent Muslims, rather than makinh so much fuss about it, we could have amicable settled the migration of Muslims to Pakistan and India could have been a Non Muslim country..So we could have stayed like US and Canada..or take any example of good neighborly countries...
Just to correct myself, i am all talking about historical concept...I beleive the rights of our Indian Muslims in current form..

When congress came to power in 1937 they forced muslims to bow down in front of the gandhi portrait and were forced to sing vande mataram in any official social event and in universities and colleges, pigs were forced inside masjid and gave the muslims a clear prelude of a hindu majority rule in a united India, when the congress resigned from power, Jinnah and the Muslim league gave a call for a deliverance day as a celebration day from the freedom of the congress oppressive rule of India.

Jinnah's 14 points in 1928 which the congress refused was the last straw for him and he invested himself whole heartedly for the creation of Pakistan.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

A reasonable partition would have given Pakistan more land in exchange of complete transfer of population. How much more is hard to say. But I guess in that scenario whole of Kashmir along with Jammu and Ladakh,Haryana,Himachal Pradesh and Indian Punjab would most probably have gone to Pakistan. But I donot see any territory of Rajasthan and Gujarat going along..This would have meant around 900 million Indians in a much smaller India...and around 400 million Muslims in a larger Pakistan...But all that is moot, as in 100-120 years there won't be a single nation state standing on the face of the earth..Both these countries have lived with present status quo for 71 years, it's just 100 years more

I think Delhi and a strip of land on the Western bank of Yamuna would have formed the border of a Hindu Republic then.Not quite dissimiliar with Lahore in the present timeline

Pakistan is here to stay until the sun rises from the west

Great post, but I can only wish for the freedom to respond here, the absence of which forces me to just say "Mmmm...hmmmm".

Of course it's a great post. People that are ashamed of Pakistan would agree with this notion. Still cant decided where your loyalties lie. What a shame

 

[SIPRA]

Some people are talking about exchange and complete transfer of population, on religious lines, at subcontinent level; as if they are discussing transport of some commodity, like potatoes or bricks, from one place to another.

 

[Kaniska]

When congress came to power in 1937 they forced muslims to bow down in front of the gandhi portrait and were forced to sing vande mataram in any official social event and in universities and colleges, pigs were forced inside masjid and gave the muslims a clear prelude of a hindu majority rule in a united India, when the congress resigned from power, Jinnah and the Muslim league gave a call for a deliverance day as a celebration day from the freedom of the congress oppressive rule of India.

Jinnah's 14 points in 1928 which the congress refused was the last straw for him and he invested himself whole heartedly for the creation of Pakistan.

Mate...not sure what are you trying to say it to me...Any way ... i beleive Jinah’s intention and agree with him...

 

[Bengal71]

Qaid's Pakistan died with him when Pakistan officially adopted Islam as its religion, states should never adopt official religion and stay outside the real of spirituality.

If Islam was not adopted as official religion and Pakistan remained secular, then what was the point of breaking up from India with the reasoning, Muslims and Hindus are different nations?

 

[SIPRA]

..... we need to find solutions as well... but not the kind you have.

Hazrat @Mangus Ortus Novem: This post is only for the purpose of inducing clarity.

I am confronting many Indian posters, who claim that Quaid e Azam proposed Pakistan as a state, which will accommodate all the Muslims, of subcontinent, by massive exchange of Hindu, Muslim and Sikh population; but Congress, and particularly Gandhi, didn't accept this idea. This is total fabrication and concoction of history. No such idea was ever propounded by Quaid, or for that matter, by any significant person, or discussed, at least on the historical record. We have now complete record, including mutual correspondence (24 letters), of prolonged Jinnah-Gandhi talks, held specifically on issue of Pakistan, at Quaid's residence in Bombay, from September 9 to 26, for 17 days. In these talks, there is not even once any mention of this ridiculous and impractical idea. Unfortunately, some of the Pakistani posters also start buying this propaganda. Case of Pakistan was fought fundamentally on the basis of the Lahore Resolution (1940), which only envisaged sovereign Muslim-majority state(s), separate and independent of India.

 

[SIPRA]

If Islam was not adopted as official religion and Pakistan remained secular, then what was the point of breaking up from India with the reasoning, Muslims and Hindus are different nations?

"Two Nation Theory", as it is called, was a political statement, framed to provide a comprehensive narrative, for carrying out political struggle for achieving Pakistan. And like all political narratives, which are generally necessary for any organized political venture, it is somewhat lopsided and tilted. Idea of Pakistan, which emerged and evolved during 1939, was the precursor of "Two Nation Theory", and not vice versa. Fundamental idea of Pakistan was to protect the rights of, at least, a majority of the Muslims of Subcontinent from perceived persistent subjugation to Hindus, in independent India. It was, of course, not an ideal, but a pragmatic solution. It was also conceived that the two daughter states would enter into some sort of treaty for reciprocal protection of rights of minorities, which could not happen due to post-1947 conflict between India and Pakistan.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

If Islam was not adopted as official religion and Pakistan remained secular, then what was the point of breaking up from India with the reasoning, Muslims and Hindus are different nations?

Cant say about Hindus but Muslims are a nation. And staying subjugated under non Muslims intent on reclaiming their 'lost' heritage was not a smart thing to do. But I still believe partition postponed the Islamisation of India by 100 years.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Honestly the threads regarding Ayodhya/RSS/BJP/Modi or whatever are illuminating a psyche in itself w.r.t many Pakistani members here.

If you are truly a separate, distinct identity...why this much focus and attention to India? Our muslims are our citizens....the Imam of Delhi Masjid said it quite curtly when Musharraf went there (birthplace touring) and starting whinging about if "Pakistan" can do something to "help" Indian muslims.....i.e "sod off, none of your business".

You are what you are through actions, not endless theories (which are most relevant during a generational genesis/revolution that marks the broad time periods).

The actions of the PDF whinge-spam bots (about the woe is the muslim predicament in India...rather than focusing on their own country) running into pages of continued circle-jerk and mob antic shout-cry fests says more than anything else can (well past the sheer amount of cringe).

Simply put, its our country, our nation, our matter. You claim to recognise this in deepest way by cleaving your own country away right? So why this continued persistent nebulosity? Is it not hypocritical?

We have through our own toil earned credibility as a free nation with basic credible institutions, as judged by fellow free nation peers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EIU_Democracy_Index_2017.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freedom_in_the_World_2018.svg

We simply dont (at least any longer) take any patronising sermons from others, especially non-free non-credible ones (and brothers who arbitrarily think they are Abel and we are Cain...and thus have a huge near-insurmountable chip on shoulder from onset). That too their deep set problems are far worse (be it multi-dimensional poverty on the ground or musical chair cabals up in the lofty elite power-games).

Thus sermons of that nature would be better directed towards themselves foremost....to EARN credibility (through combined, concerted actions and deeds in the end) and all else that matters, so the time-waste soap box is firm and tall and the preaching commensurately matters (and can actually be heard and has value above the rabble and din) too.

When you do take patronising sermons seriously in the inner psyche (for whatever reason), isn't it inevitable that you become pawns like the case with you lot and the oil sheikhs in how they gleefully accept their lofty patron role with no effort? Are they to blame solely, or is there blame among yourselves too for cultivating this complex within? Then the other patrons gather, seeing the model is validated and their interests can be promoted exclusively and easily (even if at the expense of yours).

Then the shrieking of cruel abandonment starts its own chorus when the patrons start reneging on whatever was "implied" in "promises" from "whenever". This to me is the true sign of weakness in psyche of a people...onus is on them to fix it. Buck up and sort it out...rather than point fingers (and get pointed back at) first thing. That just gets nowhere good. Simply thinking you win a battle by how far you (perceive with little to no reference, except own ego) can throw a spear is pretty darn stupid...it makes you a soft spectacle....and your own worst enemy.

@VCheng @Krptonite

Rubbish. Just because Pakistan's situation isn't close to perfect in terms of chosen economic indices, Pakistanis are not even permitted to comment on the mistakes made by Indians? This ideology is ludicrous and if anything, suitably demonstrates the arrogance-infested mindset of so many middle class Indians who have grown up with and subconsciously accepted the negative connotations of a caste concept. Some are apparently worthy of giving lectures to Hindustan, others are not, and that distinction is made on the basis of coloured maps.

 

[Bengal71]

Cant say about Hindus but Muslims are a nation. And staying subjugated under non Muslims intent on reclaiming their 'lost' heritage was not a smart thing to do. But I still believe partition postponed the Islamisation of India by 100 years.

Ok then why are some Pakistanis saying making Islam office religion was a mistake and should have stayed secular instead?

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Ok then why are some Pakistanis saying making Islam office religion was a mistake and should have stayed secular instead?

Islamization was a mistake not making it an Islamic Republic.