Asia’s Submarine Race

[ChineseTiger1986]

For Japan, with existing infrastructure, support and maintenance capabilities, each Soryu-Class sub costs around 500M USD. For Australia, which will need additional infrastructure, support and maintenance, plus training costs, the price naturally rose. I will still agree that 2 billion per boat is very, very expensive, but considering this isn't the cost per boat, and is a cost that included support features, the extra is well explained.

@Nihonjin1051 - perhaps you have additional information on exactly what Australia is getting in their contract?

With 2 billion per boat, you can almost buy a Virginia class sub.

So this is definitely overpriced as hell, it is not worthy at all.

 

[Aepsilons]

For Japan, with existing infrastructure, support and maintenance capabilities, each Soryu-Class sub costs around 500M USD. For Australia, that will need additional infrastructure, support and maintenance, plus training costs, the price naturally rose. I will still agree that 2 billion per boat is very, very expensive, but considering this isn't the cost per boat, and is a cost that included support features, the extra is well explained.

@Nihonjin1051 - perhaps you have additional information on exactly what Australia is getting in their contract?

Precisely correct!

The cost of each sub is around $500 million, the additional 1.5 billion is for handling , training, maintenance cost, support programs.

 

[BoQ77]

Sorry, but their AEGIS cannot intercept the Mach 10-15 DF-21D.

The Japanese Self-Defence Force is just a subset of the Asia-Pacific branch of the US military, and without the US military command, they cannot do anything on their own.

BTW, China's conventional subs right now are mostly AIP.

Type 039A submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you sufferred bombing raids, you would know that DF-21 cannot do much.
China can't avoid their own damage if they want to damage others. Because they are ( not like USA), surrounded by many of capable rivals : Russia, Japan, India, USA, ... and even Australia, Vietnam.

 

[mike2000]

Two fools agreeing with each other does not a genius make - no offense by the way, you've been a good friend. The reason I think Russia will transfer its most critical tech, and to be fair the 093 Russian help speculation dates back to 1993 - years before they were strategic rivals and a time when Russia needed a lot of help due to the collapse of the Soviet Union, was and is because Russia still does transfer its most up-to-date tech to China, even if the Chinese are prone to copying it. The Lada - export designation Amur, is Russia's most advanced AIP sub... it was offered to China. Missiles, engines, tanks, aircraft, radars, just about anything other then nuclear boats has been offered, though China has and has not taken the Russians up on their offer. Russia needs money, it will still offer China some of its best equipment.

Read my post again. Russia has only recently began offering China its latest high tech weapons like S-400, Lada, S-35 etc, simply because they know/have noticed the Chinese have made huge strides/progress recently and they themsleves seem to have noticed its just a matter of time before the Chinese even overtakes them this coming decade or two. So of course they will offer any latest tech they have in which they still have an edge on over the Chinese(who are now even ahead of Russia in some fields). So Russia knows by selling/offering these they have nothing much to loose while they still have the time/edge for now. So better to make some bucks than make nothing and still end up with the same result. The fact that the Chinese themselves are not taking the Russian offers(even thoguh the Russians seem to have been making claims of 'impeding deals'/contracts every years in their media.lol), should tell you much about what im trying to point out, since its only in a few fiels like Engines/heavy lift helipcopters etc that the Chinese still need the Russians. All others are no go for the Chinese, since Russia will only offer a watered down version of the ones they themself use(which is normal though for any country).
As for two fools, i will have agreed if you were definitely sure Russia had transfered this tech to China, But you yourselve said/admitted there are several conflicting reports about it being the case and others saying its not the case. so im in the camp that belives its not the case, while you are on the other side. So its your opinion against mine. So if that makes me a fool, then so does it makes you as well. So i will rather say 3 fools agreeing/disagreeing with each other doesnt make a genius... No hard feelings though.

 

[Steakhouse]

Next 5 yrs China military will reach it optimal level in modernize their force, from 2010 to 14 China military advanced amazing pace. With hundreds of billions pump into China military industry, China military industry produced high end modernize weapons. 5 to 10 yrs China will reach it parity with US military in Asia.

 

[Steakhouse]

Quantity have it advantage, China can produce more sub in Asia compare to any Asian nation.

 

[BoQ77]

Quantity have it advantage, China can produce more sub in Asia compare to any Asian nation.

You're right. Subs safety is most priority for their own crews.

 

[Steakhouse]

You're right. Subs safety is most priority for their own crews.

When you operate any machinery there are chance you will have accident, shit happen from time to time. Don't use accident to mock China military development. China at least can build their own sub but Vietnam can't.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

When you operate any machinery there are chance you will have accident, shit happen from time to time. Don't use accident to mock China military development. China at least can build their own sub but Vietnam can't.

It is a decade old accident, yet some trolls are still using it to bash China's sub.

Because they simply couldn't find anything else to bash China, just like China's latest major rocket launch accident back in 1996.

 

[Steakhouse]

China no longer desperate to import weapons from Russia or the west. There some weapons in the west China want to buy from but China now can produce all the weapon their military need.

 

[BoQ77]

- And the S-400 deal is still a rumor.
- The Amur class AIP sub is also just another rumor from the Russian media.
- The Su-35 is also a decade long rumor, but it has never been finalized. Meanwhile PLAAF is still progressing tremendously.
- Our jet engine production quantity is still not enough to fulfill the expansion rate of our air force.
- As for the heavy chooper, it is true. Russia can provide us a lot of help.

Do I ask you to accept that right now? No. Write down and review after a while.

For underline text : if your production can't meet the expansion rate or airforce, don't you accept that's the weakness of jet production?
and we doubt about the prototype of J-31 which only need 2 jet engines, your production still not meet those 2 ?
And that prototype must fly with under power engines ( RD93) for poor performance while attempt to marketing it in Zhuhai airshow? You lost the chance to marketing your jet engine products in there too.

 

[Beast]

Do I ask you to accept that right now? No. Write down and review after a while.

For underline text : if your production can't meet the expansion rate or airforce, don't you accept that's the weakness of jet production?
and we doubt about the prototype of J-31 which only need 2 jet engines, your production still not meet those 2 ?
And that prototype must fly with under power engines ( RD93) for poor performance while attempt to marketing it in Zhuhai airshow? You lost the chance to marketing your jet engine products in there too.

Why need to market our engine when we are even running short of domestic engine.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Do I ask you to accept that right now? No. Write down and review after a while.

For underline text : if your production can't meet the expansion rate or airforce, don't you accept that's the weakness of jet production?
and we doubt about the prototype of J-31 which only need 2 jet engines, your production still not meet those 2 ?
And that prototype must fly with under power engines ( RD93) for poor performance while attempt to marketing it in Zhuhai airshow? You lost the chance to marketing your jet engine products in there too.

RD-93 is a medium thrust 4th gen turbofan engine, whereas WS-10 is a high thrust 4th gen turbofan engine.

Our own medium thrust 4th gen turbofan is now in the testing stage.

 

[Echo_419]

RD-93 is a medium thrust 4th gen turbofan engine, whereas WS-10 is a high thrust 4th gen turbofan engine.

Our own medium thrust 4th gen turbofan is now in the testing stage.

View attachment 159136

Ok How did a pic of a jet managed to reach into a Submarine thread

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Ok How did a pic of a jet managed to reach into a Submarine thread

Thanks to the trolling tactics of @BoQ77.