Asia’s Submarine Race

[Aepsilons]

ya ! this idea invented by Japanese from WW II.

During such times of war, people believed in this:

"Duty is heavy as a mountain but Death is lighter than a feather."

 

[Luca1]

ya ! this idea invented by Japanese from WW II.

And they were inaffective. All they do is kill the people in the minisubs

 

[anonymus]

The government isn't the only entity to blame, India has all the building blocks to make submarines at home. There was no urgency from Indian Navy in acquiring sub surface fleet.

There were valid reasons for doing so.

Submarines primary job is to hunt down surface ships. They are practically useless for flag showing and power projection purpose.

Since Pakistan does not have a surface fleet and Chinese Ships could not get into Indian ocean without help of every county from Singapore to Seychelles, Indian navy never had any major need of SSK's. In view of the fact that any nominal threat that Indian Navy faced from Pakistani Navy is from sussurface. it has heavily invested into Submarinr Hunters.India has brought 12 P8I from USA anf India construct Submarine Hunter frigates which are even heavier that international classification of destroyers.

 

[anonymus]

IMO Japan impresses me the most. Putting AIP on the Soryu-class will make it one of the deadliest submarines not just in Asia, but in the world. It has been proven in tests that AIP subs can penetrate the defenses of carrier groups (Look up the HSwMS Gotland). Having 8 of these beasts on top of their existing fleet will make them an extremely powerful regional force.

The problem that a Submarine would face when going toe-to-toe against an Aircraft carrier group is primarily not of penetration of screen but of finding it and approaching it.

An Aircraft carrier group could move at the speed of 35-40 Knots while a Diesel electric sub could move at 15-20 knots when running diesel engines and only 2-3 knots when on AIP. This means that a Diesel electric submarine could not give chase to an Aircraft carrier group even while running on diesel electric engines, which are quite noisy and hence run athreat of being detected by anti-Submarine screen of Carrier group.

If an AIP Submarine has foreknowledge of Carrier groups movement, it could lie in wait in it's path and then approach it stealthily using AIP ( AIP mode has very slow speed and low range ) and sunk the Carrier. Though there is no situation in which Submarine would escape retaliation of other ships in Carrier once it's position is revealed.

 

[gambit]

The problem that a Submarine would face when going toe-to-toe against an Aircraft carrier group is primarily not of penetration of screen but of finding it and approaching it.

An Aircraft carrier group could move at the speed of 35-40 Knots while a Diesel electric sub could move at 15-20 knots when running diesel engines and only 2-3 knots when on AIP. This means that a Diesel electric submarine could not give chase to an Aircraft carrier group even while running on diesel electric engines, which are quite noisy and hence run athreat of being detected by anti-Submarine screen of Carrier group.

If an AIP Submarine has foreknowledge of Carrier groups movement, it could lie in wait in it's path and then approach it stealthily using AIP ( AIP mode has very slow speed and low range ) and sunk the Carrier. Though there is no situation in which Submarine would escape retaliation of other ships in Carrier once it's position is revealed.

Any sub is essentially an 'ambush predator'.

 

[SipahSalar]

I remember reading somewhere about a WW2 japanese submarine that could launch upto 3 torpedo aircraft! I am shocked that noone developed that further. Imagine an underwater Aircraft Carrier!

 

[Steakhouse]

I remember reading somewhere about a WW2 japanese submarine that could launch upto 3 torpedo aircraft! I am shocked that noone developed that further. Imagine an underwater Aircraft Carrier!

Nation develop missile launch submarine way more lethal and cost saving.

 

[Aepsilons]

I remember reading somewhere about a WW2 japanese submarine that could launch upto 3 torpedo aircraft! I am shocked that noone developed that further. Imagine an underwater Aircraft Carrier!

You're referring to the 伊四百型潜水艦 ( I-400 Class Submarine) of the Imperial Navy.

Yes, it was intended to sail to Latin America and launch an attack on the Panama Canal.

 

[SipahSalar]

Submarines primary job is to hunt down surface ships. They are practically useless for flag showing and power projection purpose.

Your statement stands true mostly, but some submarines (US, RU) have 50-100 cruise missiles, and can do serious power projection.

 

[Rechoice]

...

 

[Steakhouse]

Your statement stands true mostly, but some submarines (US, RU) have 50-100 cruise missiles, and can do serious power projection.

Missiles launch from submarine as lethal as bomb drop from the aircraft, different aircraft carrier look more mightier with 50 fighter jet launch from the carrier with their strike mission.

 

[anonymus]

Your statement stands true mostly, but some submarines (US, RU) have 50-100 cruise missiles, and can do serious power projection.

Those submarines are beast of different category, are nuclear powered, and are not for sale.

A SSN/SSBN has a force projection capability apart from having anti-Ship capability in open Ocean. A SSK, with or without AIP, would never reach the distance required by it to even get anywhere closer to surface fleet or Carrier groups in open Ocean.

SSK's are strictly for defensive purpose. They lie in wait at probable path of approach , usually in littoral waters due to limitation of range, and attack unsuspecting target.

 

[drunken-monke]

As I said as production increases, cost will decrease. Anyway, the cost of 1 soryu is about $500 million. The additional cost include weapons, training cost, support / maintenance costs throughout the life of this sub.

Still I think 2 Billion per Sub is a hefty price...

 

[kaku1]

Precisely correct!

The cost of each sub is around $500 million, the additional 1.5 billion is for handling , training, maintenance cost, support programs.

$1.5 bn for a single ship, thats huge. SSK are not worth for that much amount of money. BTW, there is any law that abide the Jap Navy with SSK and not SSN?

 

[Aepsilons]

$1.5 bn for a single ship, thats huge. SSK are not worth for that much amount of money. BTW, there is any law that abide the Jap Navy with SSK and not SSN?

It is Japanese not "Jap". Please do not use that term as it is a racial slur.

To answer your query, the Soryus are priced at $500 million per unit, the additional $1.5 billion is in regards to support costs, and developing infrastructure for the Australians; this cost applies for the Australian case basis. For countries with infrastructure that can handle the Soryus, this would result in an overall reduction of cost as these support costs would be negated.