ASEAN’s Winners and Losers under TPP

[Götterdämmerung]

Coward pple deserve that loss. Just watch and see how Vnese build a mutinatinal corporation in sub Mekong region when TPP come out

Good luck!

 

[Viva_Viet]

Good luck!

There are some big names that can become VN multinatinals like Vingroup( backed by Vnese in Ukraine-Russia) Viettel telecom( backed by VN govt.) Vina milk etc]

 

[Aepsilons]

Vina milk

I love Vietnamese milk!

 

[Cossack25A1]

I suppose you are referring to the Ilustrados?

Well yes, since most Illustrado came from the upper classes, which became one of elites, though only a few are not patriotic; at the onset of the Philippine-American War, there are some elites who are in favor of annexing the Philippines, and there are those who are in favor of resisting. Two perfect example of the former are Felipe Buencamino and Pedro Paterno, both can be seen as the "forefathers" of the balimbing/turncoat politics.

 

[Aepsilons]

Well yes, since most Illustrado came from the upper classes, which became one of elites, though only a few are not patriotic; at the onset of the Philippine-American War, there are some elites who are in favor of annexing the Philippines, and there are those who are in favor of resisting. Two perfect example of the former are Felipe Buencamino and Pedro Paterno, both can be seen as the "forefathers" of the balimbing/turncoat politics.

Yes, i remember reading about this. You know i have read 'El Filibusterismo' written by Dr. Jose P. Rizal. The great Dr. Rizal makes repetitive reference to these so called 'Ilustrados' and the Principiles. I always thought it interesting, intriguing, the social class that made up the country during the colonial epoch. It seems that the Spanish had brought with them their racial social order in the Philippines; as they had done in the other viceroyalties in the Spanish Empire (e.g, Nueva Espana, Gran Colombia y La Plata).

Two perfect example of the former are Felipe Buencamino and Pedro Paterno, both can be seen as the "forefathers" of the balimbing/turncoat politics.

Ah, very interesting. Never heard of these two gentlemen before. Thank you for endorsing them, however, i shall have to read more about them, their ideologies. I suppose a misconstrued version of national destiny was part of their drive? Dear entreat with me on this, perhaps in the Filipino thread. I should want to learn more.

though only a few are not patriotic; at the onset of the Philippine-American War, there are some elites who are in favor of annexing the Philippines,

Hmm, very true. I think i should say that in my reading of 'El Filibusterismo', I had thought the tone of Rizal's writing was pointing towards the civil rights deprivations in the country and the excessive power of the Church, with special emphasis on church land and the methodology of church taxation regimes. In fact i had thought Rizal was a proponent of the Philippines being converted from a royal colony to an actual Spanish provincia , yes? With rights being afforded to the Filipinos similar to that of Spanish citizens. I don't think Rizal ever mentioned total excision between Filipinas y Espana. However, after Rizal's most unfortunate execution in Dapitan, the Spanish government had sealed the fate in regards to the birth of Revolucion Filipina. Yes?

 

[Cossack25A1]

Yes, i remember reading about this. You know i have read 'El Filibusterismo' written by Dr. Jose P. Rizal. The great Dr. Rizal makes repetitive reference to these so called 'Ilustrados' and the Principiles. I always thought it interesting, intriguing, the social class that made up the country during the colonial epoch. It seems that the Spanish had brought with them their racial social order in the Philippines; as they had done in the other viceroyalties in the Spanish Empire (e.g, Nueva Espana, Gran Colombia y La Plata).



Ah, very interesting. Never heard of these two gentlemen before. Thank you for endorsing them, however, i shall have to read more about them, their ideologies. I suppose a misconstrued version of national destiny was part of their drive? Dear entreat with me on this, perhaps in the Filipino thread. I should want to learn more.



Hmm, very true. I think i should say that in my reading of 'El Filibusterismo', I had thought the tone of Rizal's writing was pointing towards the civil rights deprivations in the country and the excessive power of the Church, with special emphasis on church land and the methodology of church taxation regimes. In fact i had thought Rizal was a proponent of the Philippines being converted from a royal colony to an actual Spanish provincia , yes? With rights being afforded to the Filipinos similar to that of Spanish citizens. I don't think Rizal ever mentioned total excision between Filipinas y Espana. However, after Rizal's most unfortunate execution in Dapitan, the Spanish government had sealed the fate in regards to the birth of Revolucion Filipina. Yes?

Both Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo is some sort of a satire novel in depicting the Philippine society back in Rizal's day, but what is scary is that if you just replace the "Spanish" characters with "Filipino" characters, then those two novels apply at modern times.

Those two are never mentioned in Philippines history as they are mostly seen as traitors. They believed that at that time, America came here to "liberate" us and prefers to trade, similar to what Binay and a few politicians view of China today, considering the territorial issue. In fact, the Philippine politics of 1899 is no more different to the Philippine politics of 2014-16.

Rizal's original proposal is to become a province as Filipinos at that time are not ready - he did say “Why independence, if the slaves of today will be the tyrants of tomorrow?” which unfortunately, became a nightmarish reality today. It is quite visible when one will look at the current political dynasties as "tyrants of tomorrow". The idea of revolt and independence is also considered by Rizal, but as a last resort if Spain refuses to accept is proposal. Now, it is hard to distinguish fact from fiction - that Spain was really "evil", in part due to Rizal's death that triggered the Philippine revolution and mostly due to the Americans themselves.

 

[Aepsilons]

Both Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo is some sort of a satire novel in depicting the Philippine society back in Rizal's day, but what is scary is that if you just replace the "Spanish" characters with "Filipino" characters, then those two novels apply at modern times.

Those two are never mentioned in Philippines history as they are mostly seen as traitors. They believed that at that time, America came here to "liberate" us and prefers to trade, similar to what Binay and a few politicians view of China today, considering the territorial issue. In fact, the Philippine politics of 1899 is no more different to the Philippine politics of 2014-16.

Rizal's original proposal is to become a province as Filipinos at that time are not ready - he did say “Why independence, if the slaves of today will be the tyrants of tomorrow?” which unfortunately, became a nightmarish reality today. It is quite visible when one will look at the current political dynasties as "tyrants of tomorrow". The idea of revolt and independence is also considered by Rizal, but as a last resort if Spain refuses to accept is proposal. Now, it is hard to distinguish fact from fiction - that Spain was really "evil", in part due to Rizal's death that triggered the Philippine revolution and mostly due to the Americans themselves.

An excellent writing , my friend. I suppose these challenges that are present can be a topic needing tackling for future generations. Well, afterall, everything is a process and the democratic framework shouldn't be associated with American processes or methodology. One , in the end, has to take into account the local dictum , local culture, and how such variables can affect the democratization process. I suppose that is coming form a meta-analaytical vantage point.

In regards to Rizal; i do admire his almost Christ-like position. In context to the framework of the Filipino Revolution, and the birth of the 1st Republic.

 

[Cossack25A1]

An excellent writing , my friend. I suppose these challenges that are present can be a topic needing tackling for future generations. Well, afterall, everything is a process and the democratic framework shouldn't be associated with American processes or methodology. One , in the end, has to take into account the local dictum , local culture, and how such variables can affect the democratization process. I suppose that is coming form a meta-analaytical vantage point.

In regards to Rizal; i do admire his almost Christ-like position. In context to the framework of the Filipino Revolution, and the birth of the 1st Republic.

Yup, specially today where the youth are now lacking knowledge in history; this was exposed when an indie film titled Heneral Luna was shown in local cinemas, when a group of college students asked the actor that played the role Apolinario Mabini why his character always seating, apparently they didn't get the idea why he was called as the "The Sublime Paralytic".

If the youth of today has little knowledge of Philippine history, what kind of future will the Philippines have as a nation and as a member of ASEAN?

 

[Aepsilons]

Yup, specially today where the youth are now lacking knowledge in history; this was exposed when an indie film titled Heneral Luna was shown in local cinemas, when a group of college students asked the actor that played the role Apolinario Mabini why his character always seating, apparently they didn't get the idea why he was called as the "The Sublime Paralytic".

If the youth of today has little knowledge of Philippine history, what kind of future will the Philippines have as a nation and as a member of ASEAN?

I feel that that concept or situation is not only limited to Philippines, my friend. As a university instructor here in the United States, most of the American collegians also have only a minor command of the specifics of American revolutionary history. It is unfortunately a result, i suppose, of more emphasis on social culture, social entertainment than on historical understanding. Why, this phenomena is not just an American experience, i believe many countries in Western Europe and even , to an extent, Japan -- have such paradigms.

In regards to the Philippines -- i suppose this challenge should not be taken as a source of gaffe, but should be a constructivist challenge, one that will inspire the millions of young Filipinos to learn more about themselves, and to achieve more , build upon what their parents and predecessors have gained since their independence some 70 years ago.

 

[Viva_Viet]

I love Vietnamese milk!

Its time for VN & JP to help an Asian milk company like VNmilk to become a strong milk company like New Zealand milk

 

[Aepsilons]

Its time for VN & JP to help an Asian milk company like VNmilk to become a strong milk company like New Zealand milk

Yes, let us all enjoy milk

 

[Viva_Viet]

Yes, let us all enjoy milk

JP just release the TPP detail, do you satysfy with it,bro ?

 

[Aepsilons]

JP just release the TPP detail, do you satysfy with it,bro ?

What can I say bro, greater access to the U.S. Market and also greater access to
vietnam's agri sector, with fish import tariffs being reduced? Bro, means more Japanese will get to enjoy fresh Vietnam fish for less the price! Win win !

I'm happy yes, I'm also happy that Tsai Ing Wen will win presidency in Taiwan!

2016 --- best year so far!

 

[Viva_Viet]

What can I say bro, greater access to the U.S. Market and also greater access to
vietnam's agri sector, with fish import tariffs being reduced? Bro, means more Japanese will get to enjoy fresh Vietnam fish for less the price! Win win !

I'm happy yes, I'm also happy that Tsai Ing Wen will win presidency in Taiwan!

2016 --- best year so far!

You can open the thread abt the detail of TPP for Japan, we r happy to hear from Jpese opinion in your own forum .

 

[Aepsilons]

You can open the thread abt the detail of TPP for Japan, we r happy to hear from Jpese opinion in your own forum .

I will do that, but later. I'm on mobile now. Giving out exam to students ! Can't talk much or type much now.