Asaduddin Owaisi: Muslims in India have no connection with Mughals, but who were their wives?

[Maula Jatt]

It's all the combined history of the Muslims of the sub continent, all interlinked and interlaced

There are 600 million Muslims across the sub continent, we can't pick and choose our history or historical figures, they are a reality and affected all of us

Brother look at Punjab's folk heroes a lot of them were heroes cause they fought Mughals and they were all Muslims, some of our festivals are inspired by rebellion against the Mughal authority

Pashtuns also had a brutal history with Mughals and they were Muslims too

Only Hindutva look at history through just Hindu, Muslim lens- its more nuanced

when you say that all 600 million Muslims should have similar heroes, you play into the hands of Indian nationalists who believe, India is one and our people are them except for religion, this is leading to religious extremism in our entire region
while we want to counter that - it's more than just religion, we were never one, our realities, heroes, tradition, history are different which shape our modern reality

 

[kingQamaR]

Of course you will say this. But we hold very contrary views to this act that you have mentioned. Let's not get to that.

I'm not denying Mughals are not part of our history. My point is the simping some people do for the Mughals is cringe. Some people will choose to identify with people belonging to the same religion but on many levels it feels laughable. It's like the people don't have an identity of their own and our seeking validation with outsiders. Physical subjugation is fine, you can't resist and the enemy is too strong. But mental subjugation is what is at display among some people of the subcontinent. There's also a word for it. It's ok though.

However, among all the Mughals, I will consider Akbar as a true king and a good statesman.

Most Pakistani people associate themselves with their ethnic group. These being Punjabi, Pashtun, Saraiki, Sindhi, Baloch, Kashmiri, etc. Beyond that most Pakistani people associate themselves with their castes or clans. For example, the Rajputs claim descent from the ancient Rajputs. Not the Mughals. Similarly the Jutts also claim the heritage of the Jutts from medieval times. The Pashtun people usually trace their origins to one of the Pashtun tribes. The idea that most Pakistani people believe to be descended from the Mughals is a myth.

 

[KedarT]

What you have is a caste mentality that says if your father did something stupid like worship a idol made of shit, you too forever more must worship the same shit idol

You must never change, never question, never allowed to move on



Millions embraced islam, islam is for all humanity, the Arabs were idol worshippers, Persians fire worshippers, Muslims across the world came from people who worshipped everything from idols to the open sky, everyone in order to embrace islam abandoned the idols and fires and any other pagan nonsense for belief in one God



You can't pick and choose history, nor try to rewrite it with a new narrative

You sound frustrated. I didn't respond to your earlier post for good reason. I hope you get the message

 

[Hamza913]

Like what? By conversion and then the same religion? Are you serious?
Stop considering yourself as Mughal man. It feels cringe. Even the Mughals considered themselves as different from locals lol.

Most of the Mughal aristocracy consisted of either locals who maintained their ethnic identity, or locals who started claiming Persian, Arab, etc ancestry to disassociate themselves from the polytheistic hordes of the sub-continent.

Regardless, even the actual foreigners were still absorbed into Pakistan and India's Muslim community, especially those living in UP who speak Urdu (a language they promoted) as their mother tongue.

Stop coping by trying to make others as debased and degraded as you feel.

 

[Paitoo]

Asaduddin Owaisi: Muslims in India have no connection with Mughals, but who were their wives?​

 

[Black Tornado]

What wrong is he saying? Ancestors of most muslims in India were Indians and not central asians like the Mughals except the few having Pashtun, Arab and Baloch ancestry in some places in India.

 

[hussain0216]

You sound frustrated(as I mentioned, mental subjugation). I didn't respond to your earlier post for good reason. I hope you get the message

On the contrary it's you who are frustrated, it's why hindutva are obsessed with a new comic book retelling of history to find Hindu superheroes to create legends out of, it's why hindus are trying to claim every Muslim structure from the Taj Mahal to the Red fort

 

[Hamza913]

no, I am not a fan of Mughals, we fought Mughals as Muslims, we have our own distinct history
and thier history definately is not thr history of all of south asians
only urdu speaking/hindi speaking muslims have some ownership of Mughals history

Muslims of south asia are not a monolithic just as hindus, Christians of india are not a monolith

Other than Shah Jahan and Aurangzeb I don't really care for any of them that much... ig Babur is still somewhat interesting and a good tool to prod Indians with but nothing more.

I do care about Punjabis like Waris Shah, Adina Beg, Shahbaz Kamboh, Sarang Khan, etc who were part of the Mughal military and/or aristocracy though, only because they're Punjabi.

Of course you will say this. But we hold very contrary views to this act that you have mentioned. Let's not get to that.

I'm not denying Mughals are not part of our history. My point is the simping some people do for the Mughals is cringe. Some people will choose to identify with people belonging to the same religion but on many levels it feels laughable. It's like the people don't have an identity of their own and our seeking validation with outsiders. Physical subjugation is fine, you can't resist and the enemy is too strong. But mental subjugation is what is at display among some people of the subcontinent. There's also a word for it. It's ok though.

However, among all the Mughals, I will consider Akbar as a true king and a good statesman.

Islam cares more about religion than race, which is why some are quite fond of Muslim rulers of different ethnic backgrounds. Learn to accept this rather than project your own mentality onto everyone else.

 

[kingQamaR]

What wrong is he saying? Ancestors of most muslims in India were Indians and not central asians like the Mughals except the few having Pashtun, Arab and Baloch ancestry in some places in India.

Are you effing tone deaf to ?

As I said at the very start, very few Pakistani people claim such heritage. Most of us claim to be the descendants of the local people who have lived in these regions for over a thousand years

 

[KedarT]

or locals who started claiming Persian, Arab, etc ancestry to disassociate themselves

Stop coping by trying to make others as debased and degraded as you feel.

Hmm. I'm out of this thread. Half of the posters can't write a sentence without abusing others (and sometimes abuse themselves).

 

[Hamza913]

Hmm. I'm out of this thread. Half of the posters can't write a sentence without abusing others (and sometimes abuse themselves).

My family didn't do that so it's not my problem, and those that did only committed such out of hatred towards you

So, it only shows how poorly you're viewed

 

[Maula Jatt]

Like what? By conversion and then the same religion? Are you serious?
Stop considering yourself as Mughal man. It feels cringe. Even the Mughals considered themselves as different from locals lol.

serious question
where did I or the vast majority of fellow Pakistanis consider themselves Mughals

or do you think we are Hindustani Muslims?

And yes Hindustani Muslims should be proud of the Mughals

Asaduddin Owaisi: Muslims in India have no connection with Mughals, but who were their wives?​

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@DrJekyll I genuinely didn't get it

What wrong is he saying? Ancestors of most muslims in India were Indians and not central asians like the Mughals except the few having Pashtun, Arab and Baloch ancestry in some places in India.

@Sudarshan history isnt as simple as dna tests...

please open your worldview

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

They are just as much a part of our history as the British Raj were.

I am waiting for day when folks like these will realize what these "rulers" thought about locals of subcontinent

 

[gwangju.khan]

I am waiting for day when folks like these will realize what these "rulers" thought about locals of subcontinent

Jahangir, referring to an Indian muslim community called the Sayyids of Barha:

"The Sayyids of Barha were the averters of calamity from this dominion"

Tuzuk-i-Jahangiri


Aurangzeb:

"Digar ba khud manaz ki Turki Tamam Shud (don't praise yourself as your Turki is over)"

Maasir-i-Alamgiri

Aurangzeb:

Exalted son, the town of Dohad, situated in a district of Gujarat, is the birthplace of this sinner, full of sins (i.e. Aurangzeb). You should learn to shew proper kindness to the inhabitants of this town...A king must posess one general eye for shewing favour to the weak, and one special eye for shewing favour to some favourites...Exalted son, you posess a sound judgement in executing orders. Gujarat is the ornament and jewel of India.

Ruqa'at-i-Alamgiri

Aurangzeb, again referring to the influence of the indian muslim tribe known as the Syeds of Barha:

But you should be extremely cautious in dealing with the Syeds of Barha...because a strong partner in government soon wants to seize the kingship for himself."

Other nobles referring to the deposition of the Mughal emperor Farrukhsiyar, who was maternally of Kashmiri descent:
Muhammad Amin Khan Chin:

"O Nawab, why have you not this finished with this son of a Kashmiri "