As of today. Strait of Hormuz is closed for US

[mangekyo]

My friend, I study this stuff and understand what happened.

I am not asserting that Iraq won the war but it did give Iran one hell of a fight which lasted 7 - 8 years straight. Now, both countries had their share of flaws. Iraqi military wasn't large enough, and well-equipped enough, to invade Iran back in the 1980 but Saddam Hussein foolishly gave this order; what happened is that Iraqi military conquered certain parts of Iran but failed to make deeper inroads and take over Tehran due to Iranian resistance. Now Iranian resistance at this stage was nothing significant due to the reasons you pointed out but failure of Iraqi military forces to advance further provided sufficient breathing space to Iranian regime to galvanize Iranian public to fight for the country and commit lot of manpower to this cause. IRGC came into being and Iranian military managed to regroup and both factions took the initiative to oust Iraqi military forces from Iranian territory in tandem (cooperation). When this happened, Saddam Hussein offered terms for lasting peace to Ayatollah Khomeini but the latter rejected it. In fact, Iranian military forces invaded certain parts of Iraq [an accomplished worth talking about] but Iraq began to receive lot of foreign aid from this point on and Iraqi people began to mobilize for war on a much bigger scale than ever before, and Iranian military capability diminished by 1988 whereas Iraq had a powerful military at its disposal at this stage. It was at this point that Ayatollah Khomeini considered peaceful resolution to the war. One thing is that since Iraq was short on naval front and Iranian Navy had monopoly in this domain, Iranian Navy took the bait of USN and drew it into a shooting contest (Operation Praying Mantis) in 1988 which resulted in significant losses on Iranian side and Ayatollah Khomeini lost this leverage in deciding terms for peace consequently.

Most unfortunate is the fact that a huge number of Muslims lost their lives in this war, and it qualify as one of the darkest chapters of Islamic history. Allah Almighty punished Iraq for its transgressions but Iran haven't learned a lesson either (need to give up its interventionist designs). So my friend, understand that much can go wrong for Iran in the most recent conflict. This isn't to say that Iran is weak but US is too powerful an adversary to exchange blows with and not suffering tremendously. Ballistic missiles will not accomplish much - I tell you.

You are derailing. You said "Iraqi people had similar boasts that US will utterly fail in Iraq but they were proven wrong. This same Iraq gave Iran one hell of a fight earlier - do not forget this" I responded to your claim by providing the facts that Iran had essentially a non existent military, was in chaos, embargoed, fought off an Iraq supported by almost the entire world. But still didn't lose the war. You are basically saying the Iraq that got wrecked by US gave Iran a hell of a fight for 8 years without considering any of the facts I mentioned. You cannot compare the Iran of 1980 to the Iran of today. And you cannot compare Saddam vs US to Iran vs US.

But anyways. Say US declares war on Iran. What is the objective of this war?

 

[Falcon29]

Not a Shia am a Sunni but I would volunteer to fight for Iran against Arabs.

Why are you telling me that?

Iran has no air force to speak of how are they expecting to stop them?

Title is a mistake by OP, IRGC official says they will if 'they preventing us from using it', or if US Navy stops Iranian oil transfers by sea. Because US said it would monitor Iranian oil shipments or that it could track them. So we will see after waivers no longer extended starting in May.

 

[mangekyo]

Title is a mistake by OP

Title of article: US Must Talk to Revolutionary Guards if It Wants to Enter Hormuz Strait - Zarif
In the article: If the US wants to enter the Strait of Hormuz, they will have to talk to the IRGC forces protecting it, Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif has said.

they do not need any! do you remember USA destroying Iraq (specifically Sunni rule) on behalf of Iran? do you remeber them handing over Saddam Hussain over to them to be lynched and filmed by a mob of ayatullahs? do you remember USA removing Sunnis from power in Afghanistan and replacing them with Northern alliance?

next one marked for destruction is Pakistan not Iran. why do you think USA allowed Chabahar corridor to be built? was it for modi to supply books to his Afghan library or to supply NATO Bases?

You are right!!. You know. Trump is a Shia. So was Bush and Obama thats why Obamas middle name was "Hussein" (Shia name!!!) It's inevitable. The Shia government of US will side with the Shia government of Iran and the Shia government of India, to destroy Sunni Pakistan.

 

[zulu]

No Pakistani can forget that

When yanks mercilessly killed our soldiers, we blocked their supplies. The blockaded had almost brought uncle sam to knees but India+Iran tag team gave him breathing space by providing supplies via Iran

 

[Mithridates]

iranian khorramshahr missile travels at mach +10 in its reentry phase, patriot can't track a reentry device with more than 6 mach. a patriot system can track up to 9 targets simultaneously. a khorramshahr missile has 10 m CEP. saudis have 9 major air bases. we have more than hundreds of khorramshahr. go figure it out what would happen in saudi-iran war.

 

[nahtanbob]

No Sir, he did not underestimated US navy he is just talking about Iran.
We never under estimate US, we know that how they were 'Victorious' in Vietnam. We know how brave they were to face USSR in Afghanistan. We know how bravely they are now fighting in Afghanistan. After nearly two decades of velour now US negotiating with 'terrorists' for safe exit.
We never underestimate Sir.

after all those defeats it is still paxa americana

 

[LeGenD]

You are derailing. You said "Iraqi people had similar boasts that US will utterly fail in Iraq but they were proven wrong. This same Iraq gave Iran one hell of a fight earlier - do not forget this" I responded to your claim by providing the facts that Iran had essentially a non existent military, was in chaos, embargoed, fought off an Iraq supported by almost the entire world. But still didn't lose the war. You are basically saying the Iraq that got wrecked by US gave Iran a hell of a fight for 8 years without considering any of the facts I mentioned. You cannot compare the Iran of 1980 to the Iran of today. And you cannot compare Saddam vs US to Iran vs US.

But anyways. Say US declares war on Iran. What is the objective of this war?

I am derailing? I think not.

I provided an overview of the Iran - Iraq war in the 1980s in one long paragraph - read it carefully (I do not like to repeat myself). This statement "Iran had essentially a non existent military, was in chaos, embargoed, fought off an Iraq supported by almost the entire world" - is true to an extent but misleading as well since Iraq wasn't a military juggernaut when it invaded Iran in 1980 (a mediocre military force at this stage) and Iran got its act together by 1982 and ousted Iraqi military forces from Iranian territory and even captured a part of Iraq, but Iraq benefited tremendously from foreign aid over the course of years and ruined Iranian military forces by the end of the war.

Professional assessment: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a217255.pdf

---

American military capability continue to evolve and refine over time as well. Back in 2002, USN was of the view that it need to develop contingencies for Iranian advances in the naval front based on lessons drawn from Operation Praying Mantis, but by now as in 2019, USN have an answer to everything in Iranian arsenal and then some. YOU cannot keep up with US in the matters of defense due to vast disparity in the defense-related budget and R&D capabilities of the two countries - understand this.

I do not think that US is planning to invade Iran but it is possible that US might devise a plan to cripple Iranian regime and military capability Libya-style or Kosovo-style. This depend upon how Iran respond to pressures from Trump administration - would Iranian naval forces make an attempt to close Straight of Hormuz or not? Let us see.

 

[Mithridates]

King Abdulaziz Air Base:

zelzal rocket range: 250 km

by now as in 2019, USN have an answer to everything in Iranian arsenal and then some

what's their answer to persian gulf missile?? or shkval/hoot torpedo?? or cruise missile launcher boats??

 

[khail007]

after all those defeats it is still paxa americana

Indeed ... my answer is same as in post #71.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

US didn't invade Iraq with troops in Iraq's cities out of nowhere. The 1991 war (which was a major war with large-scale bombardments) was followed by several other missile and bombing strikes throughout the 90's with crippling UN sanctions (far heavier than just US based sanctions) till the economy got squeezed. Only then the 2003 invasion happened when commanders no longer saw a point to defend the regime.

These important parts are being forgotten as always, had they sent ground troops into cities in 1991 it would've been a lot more difficult than 2003. The issues faced in 2003 and after were insurgency not from the state.

 

[Clutch]

Only officially. But if we believe official data of Khorramshahr missile to be true.

"The Khorramshahr (Persian: خرمشهر‎), named after the city of Khorramshahr in Iran, is a medium-range ballistic missile that was tested by Iran in January 2017. Its range is between 1,000–2000 km with a 1,800 kg warhead and is 13 m in length"

If it can travel 2000km with 1800kg payload, it can easily travel 4000km with 500kg payload

Iran has plenty of dummy weapons and phontom weapons that cannot do anything.... They are mostly props for lame military parades and disinformation.

The only weapon Iran has that causes trouble for the world is .... Terror.

Even here in Pakistan Iran is responsible for a lot of terror in cahoots with India.

Mullah Iran has always been pro-India and anti-Pakistan.

When yanks mercilessly killed our soldiers, we blocked their supplies. The blockaded had almost brought uncle sam to knees but India+Iran tag team gave him breathing space by providing supplies via Iran. So, lets mind our own business and interests instead of wanking in matters which doesn't concern. Our priority should be securing and controlling our western borders like eastern border and LOC to avoid any spill over if sh!t ever hit the fan. As far as US is concerned, they don't need to attack Iran directly when they can pitch Iranins and Arabs against each other and can fight Iran till last Arab, and Arabs till last Iranian.

Thanks for bringing this up... Us Pakistanis have such short memory spans...

 

[mangekyo]

I am derailing? I think not.

I provided an overview of the Iran - Iraq war in the 1980s in one long paragraph - read it carefully (I do not like to repeat myself). This statement "Iran had essentially a non existent military, was in chaos, embargoed, fought off an Iraq supported by almost the entire world" - is true to an extent but misleading as well since Iraq wasn't a military juggernaut when it invaded Iran in 1980 (a mediocre military force at this stage) and Iran got its act together by 1982 and ousted Iraqi military forces from Iranian territory and even captured a part of Iraq, but Iraq benefited tremendously from foreign aid over the course of years and ruined Iranian military forces by the end of the war.

Professional assessment: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a217255.pdf

---

American military capability continue to evolve and refine over time as well. Back in 2002, USN was of the view that it need to develop contingencies for Iranian advances in the naval front based on lessons drawn from Operation Praying Mantis, but by now as in 2019, USN have an answer to everything in Iranian arsenal and then some. YOU cannot keep up with US in the matters of defense due to vast disparity in the defense-related budget and R&D capabilities of the two countries - understand this.

I do not think that US is planning to invade Iran but it is possible that US might devise a plan to cripple Iranian regime and military capability Libya-style or Kosovo-style. This depend upon how Iran respond to pressures from Trump administration - would Iranian naval forces make an attempt to close Straight of Hormuz or not? Let us see.

Yes you are, because we were discussing how US can only perform air raids and missile strikes which wont accomplish anything, and that they do not have the capability to put boots on the ground and hold Iran. We were not talking about Iran-Iraq war, I reacted to your unfair argument were you compared Iran-Iraq war, with US-Iraq war without taking into consideration the embargo, support for Saddam etc. But let us forget that.

I asked you if US declared war on Iran, what would the objective be?

1. Let's assume the objective is to reduce Irans oil export to 0 by taking out all our oil fields.

How are they going to achieve this? Air raids and missile strikes of course. Is Iran going to sit back and watch? No. We would take out all their bases in ME. They would strike us some more, and there is no doubt we would suffer heavy losses and eventually we would have to surrender, but would it be worth losing all their ME bases? No it wouldn't and they know it. We would rebuild eventually and so would they, but in the end, both sides would lose.

2. Let us assume the objective is regime change

This is not goin to happen, noway in hell will there be a regime change in Iran because of foreign military intervention. Anyone who knows about Iran and Irans history knows this is not going to happen

3. Let us assume the objective is to weaken Irans military capabilities.

This is exactly the same outcome as .1

4. Let us assume the objective is total destruction of Iran

This they can do, no doubt. US can easily wipe us out, but we would have same scenario as 1 again, but this time it would escalate, we would wipe Israel, Israel would nuke us, US would nuke us, and most likely we would nuke at least some major cities in US. Its not worth it

Thats why US is trying to force a regime change through sanctions. They know military strikes are not an option. They are doing whatever they can to cause a new revolution. Do you seriously believe US is not striking Iran because they are concerned about civilians in Iran? If US could attack Iran, they would not hesitate for a second. They cannot afford the outcome of such a war.

ran has plenty of dummy weapons and phontom weapons that cannot do anything.... They are mostly props for lame military parades and disinformation.

The only weapon Iran has that causes trouble for the world is .... Terror.

Even here in Pakistan Iran is responsible for a lot of terror in cahoots with India.

Mullah Iran has always been pro-India and anti-Pakistan.

If you sit upon such intel, why don't you go to Pakistans government or ISI and give them this intel? I'm sure they would like to know about this information.

 

[Clutch]

If you sit upon such intel, why don't you go to Pakistans government or ISI and give them this intel? I'm sure they would like to know about this information.

The recent Quetta attack has already been traced back to Iran and Afghanistan... But there is no action from our impotent gov.

That's the problem.

Hopefully Trump eliminates the Iranian problem for us all.

 

[Hack-Hook]

No strait is territory of oman and Iran. Both

The passable area in one part is in iran territorial water .

I

Iran haven't missiles out of 2000km range

Khoramshahr theoretically can go up to 3500km if we use smaller warhead (A warhead in size of shahab missiles)

 

[TechMan]

I feel sorry for people who actually believe that something will happen. Both Iran and USA are fooling the world for more than 30 years now. All talk and no action.