'Aryan invasion of India', is a 'Myth'

[Joe Shearer]

The Aryan invasion theory was debunked a long time back. It is claimed that when Max Mueller came up the theory, he tried to get the dates to conform to his Biblical beliefs of humanity. This subject was discussed a lot recently in some other threads. As for this article, all it does is claim that because the idea that the Vedic Aryans were a separate people causes division, it should be rejected. The fact remains that denial of difference doesn't mean there is no difference, ideological reasons come in to play here. Sanskrit shares similarities with surrounding languages because of the proximity between it & other language speakers. The borrowing of loan words for instance occurs to this day & pretty much every language on Earth has borrowed loan words & concepts from others.

In order for an Indo-European language to exist in this region there must have been extensive contact with ancient Indo-European Sanskrit speakers, & assimilation as well. Genetic evidence however does point to the prevalence of Central Asian & Eurasian DNA in the the north western & northern regions of the Sub-Continent, particularly in the upper castes. The more accurate theory refers to an Indo-Aryan migration, which on the basis of genetic evidence appears to be true. The majority of the Central Asian & Eurasian mixture is paternal, had the Vedic Aryans been indigenous, female lineages would be present in equal amounts. The point is that there was no Aryan Invasion, but there was an Aryan migration probably towards the later era of the Harappan civilization.

Genetic evidence suggests European migrants may have influenced
the origins of India's caste system



Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

This, for instance, is a more balanced view, but it is not at all clear that people travelled across from Europe; rather, people from a common location may have travelled east and west, more or less in the same time frames, and spread their language and its derivatives into Europe and into India.

The only true linguistic and cultural descendants of indo-iranians in south asia are dardic people living in northern pakistan. Khowar and kalasha languages spoken in chitral are the closest living sister languages to rigvedic sanskrit. In case of kalash even the religion is also closest to the original proto indo-aryan/indo-iranian pagan religion without any corruption from indian hinduism which is mainly an indian phenomenon with an indo-aryan superficial cover. All the modern indic languaes like punjabi, hindi, bengali, marathi etc. are highly corrupted form of proto indo-aryan syntax.

A point of view, your remarks about language.

The proto-Indo-Iranian language itself is considered to be a derivative of proto-Indo-European. Proto-Indo-Iranian evolved into Iranian on one side, in its three variations and Avestan, and into Vedic Sanskrit on the other side. Vedic Sanskrit and Avestan are mutually comprehensible, to some considerable extent.

It was Vedic Sanskrit that was codified by Panini to form the invariant and unevolving 'eternal' language, classical Sanskrit. By that time, Vedic Sanskrit had already evolved into Magadhi and Suraseni Prakrit, each of which evolved into eastern (Bengali, Hindi) and western (Marathi, Punjabi) variant languages.

Your use of the phrase 'highly corrupted' surely is a joke, or very deep linguistic thinking. Which is it?

 

[Joe Shearer]

The word Aryan comes from our culture and our scriptures. You are talking bizarre things.  


Closest languages to Sanskrit is modern North Indian languages. 


She is saying we can't claim our own heritage, only some aira gaira nathu khaira outside India has claim over our heritage.  


There was no invasion, Vedic culture was the continuation of Indus Valley civilization.

Only in part if true, and not proven, surmised like the rest of these pre-historic speculations.

 

[INDIC]

Only in part if true, and not proven, surmised like the rest of these pre-historic speculations.

Aryan invasion theory was claimed on the basis that Aryan invaders attacked and destroyed Indus valley civilization and a grave mount at Harappa(where graves belonged to different periods of time) was claimed as the people killed by invading Aryans by European historian of that time. So, how can I believe the so called Aryan invasion theory is not without flaws. There was indeed an Aryan migration but flaws is if they really destroyed the earlier civilization.

www.harappa.com/indus2/162.html

The Late Harappan Period at Harappa is represented by the Cemetery H culture (1900-1300 BC) which is named after the discovery of a large cemetery filled with painted burial urns and some extended inhumations. The earlier burials in this cemetery were laid out much like Harappan coffin burials, but in the later burials, adults were cremated and the bones placed in large urns (164). The change in burial customs represents a major shift in religion and can also be correlated to important changes in economic and political organization. Cemetery H pottery and related ceramics have been found throughout northern Pakistan, even as far north as Swat, where they mix with distinctive local traditions. In the east, numerous sites in the Ganga-Yamuna Doab provide evidence for the gradual expansion of settlements into this heavily forested region. One impetus for this expansion may have been the increasing use of rice and other summer (kharif) crops that could be grown using monsoon stimulated rains. Until late in the Harappan Period (after 2200 BC) the agricultural foundation of the Harappan cities was largely winter (rabi) crops that included wheat and barley. Although the Cemetery H culture encompassed a relatively large area, the trade connections with the western highlands began to break down as did the trade with the coast. Lapis lazuli and turquoise beads are rarely found in the settlements, and marine shell for ornaments and ritual objects gradually disappeared. On the other hand the technology of faience manufacture becomes more refined, possibly in order to compensate for the lack of raw materials such as shell, faience and possibly even carnelian.

What happened after 1800 BCE? | Harappa

 

[INDIC]

Aryan's R1a probably evolved in West Asia, then one branch moved into Europe and another branch moved into South Asia.

The original R1a carriers were dark haired and dark eyed Mediterraneans like the Vedic Aryans in South Asia, but the branch moved into Europe has married the indigenous blonde European women, thus their descendants have also became blonde and blue-eyed.

That's why the Vedic Aryans remained the original Aryans, while those blonde Scythians were probably belonged to the East European branch of AR1ans like Slavs and Balts.

There are two kinds of genes prevalent among people with Indo-European ancestry. Most of the Europeans have R1b as common gene. While R1a is mainly among East Europeans and Indians. R1b originated in Western Europe and becomes less common moving eastward towards East Europe. Indian population has mainly two genes called R1a and H.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

There are two kinds of genes prevalent among people with Indo-European ancestry. Most of the Europeans have R1b as common gene. While R1a is mainly among East Europeans and Indians. R1b originated in Western Europe and becomes less common moving eastward towards East Europe. Indian population has mainly two genes called R1a and H.

R1b was originally Non-Indo-European, but later it got Indo-Europeanized by their R1a cousins.

There are two branches of R1a, the Indo-Iranian one and the Balto-Slavic one.

As for the Scythians, those blonde Scythians belonged to the Balto-Slavic branch, while the Mediterranean Scythians belonged to the Indo-Iranian branch.

 

[Yeti]

Tell me something I do not know! everyone knows the so called Aryan migration/invasion was a white man lie but history books was written by the white man

No Abrahamic religion or culture can be deemed to be called a 'Arya' only those who follow Dharma and Vedic teachings can be Arya the rest are mleccha.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No, all 'dwijas', twice-born, claim this. It includes a number of other castes besides Brahmins, notably Varmas (kshatriyas) and some castes presumably originated in the Vaisya.



Yes and no. Yes, they dominated Indian society for thousands of years. No, it was not through a complete lie, it was through spread of language, culture and religion. The process was completed in Tamilakam, deep south India, commencing about 800 AD.



Not proven, and based on rickety facts. The best summary of the issue is available from the posts of @Bang Galore, but he must be bored of writing the same thing over and over and over again.

After reading the delightful posts by @P(-)OENiX, it is clear that he should be read to counterpoise @Bang Galore and his dry, sceptical debunking of the conventional historical wisdom. @niaz always brings in the balance and restraint necessary on these speculative writings.

 

[INDIC]

After reading the delightful posts by @Phoenix, it is clear that he should be read to counterpoise @Bang Galore and his dry, sceptical debunking of the conventional historical wisdom. @niaz always brings in the balance and restraint necessary on these speculative writings.

Dravida(Sanskrit word) or its equivalent Pali word Dramila was just one of the many tribes from South India living in Northern Tamil Nadu. I wonder how these conventional historian very conviniently distorted the history during colonial era by branding all South Indians as Dravidians.

 

[bronxbull]

Yes it is a myth.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dravida(Sanskrit word) or its equivalent Pali word Dramila was just one of the many tribes from South India living in Northern Tamil Nadu. I wonder how these conventional historian very conviniently distorted the history during colonial era by branding all South Indians as Dravidians.

Since it is well understood that both Aryan and Dravidian correctly refer to languages, not to races, Dravidian no longer means all south Indians.

There was a period of time when geographers thought the earth was flat. People would laugh at me if I wrote a piece of pompous garbage like,"I wonder how these conventional geographers very conveniently distorted the geography during the ancient and mediaeval eras by branding the earth as flat."

 

[INDIC]

Second is the destruction of Indus civilization. No civilization is completely destroyed in one blow. The very fact that it migrated eastwards implies that probably foreign invaders pushed the local population eastwards.

Rigveda corresponds to cemetery H culture(1900-1300BC) or Ochre colored Pottery culture, which is the last phase of Indus Valley civilization. The Rigvedic rivers matches to those of Cemetery H culture, the land between Indus river and Yamuna river. The name Cemetery H is derived from the Cemetry H region of Harappa where are proofs of cremations and storing the remains of ashes in the urn had been found, but after 1300BC Harappa was abandoned. Meanwhile a verse in Rigveda also mentions about the customs of cremation and burying practiced by ancestors of Rigvedic period people.

Cemetery H Culture Dish or lid

 

[scorpionx]

Rg veda,being perhaps one of the oldest text in Human history looks like an enigma which can answer some of our queries. This text was written in a language (i.e Vedic Sanskrit) which has strange affinities with the Slavic languages. It becomes quite clear to its reader that this huge sacred database was not written over night. It was written by different poets through out a much larger period of time. During the initial phases of the book,the deities are quite similar to those worshiped near the Ural regions.

But as the book progresses,slowly the earlier Gods start getting cornered and gets completely replaced by a newer "Monotheistic" concept of spirituality in the later mandalas. So,this is quite possible that people who had some sort of connection (Religious/cultural/Trade/Genetic)with their Slavic ancestors slowly got detached with course of time.

Secondly there is a remarkable observation by the Genetic researchers that through out the subcontinent there is a homogeneous relationship between all its inhabitants irrespective of cast,creed,religion or language in terms of mtDNA. Means in simple words,we all have common maternal ancestors for the last 20,000-30,000 years. The only change happened perhaps is a slow,step by step movement of Indo-European speakers in small contingents over thousand of years which changed the geometrical structute of Y-DNA in the North and North West India and Pakistan of the present day.

 

[illusion8]

Rg veda,being perhaps one of the oldest text in Human history looks like an enigma which can answer some of our queries. This text was written in a language (i.e Vedic Sanskrit) which has strange affinities with the Slavic languages. It becomes quite clear to its reader that this huge sacred database was not written over night. It was written by different poets through out a much larger period of time. During the initial phases of the book,the deities are quite similar to those worshiped near the Ural regions.

But as the book progresses,slowly the earlier Gods start getting cornered and gets completely replaced by a newer "Monotheistic" concept of spirituality in the later mandalas. So,this is quite possible that people who had some sort of connection (Religious/cultural/Trade/Genetic)with their Slavic ancestors slowly got detached with course of time.

Secondly there is a remarkable observation by the Genetic researchers that through out the subcontinent there is a homogeneous relationship between all its inhabitants irrespective of cast,creed,religion or language in terms of mtDNA. Means in simple words,we all have common maternal ancestors for the last 20,000-30,000 years. The only change happened perhaps is a slow,step by step movement of Indo-European speakers in small contingents over thousand of years which changed the geometrical structute of Y-DNA in the North and North West India and Pakistan of the present day.

What's with Bangladeshi's quoting you as reference?

 

[INDIC]

Since it is well understood that both Aryan and Dravidian correctly refer to languages, not to races, Dravidian no longer means all south Indians.

There was a period of time when geographers thought the earth was flat. People would laugh at me if I wrote a piece of pompous garbage like,"I wonder how these conventional geographers very conveniently distorted the geography during the ancient and mediaeval eras by branding the earth as flat."

Joe Sir, do you really think that this particular situation can ever be compared to earth is flat concept, in that case lack of sea voyages or scientific data was the main reason for ignorance. But classification of Aryan or Dravidian is based on ancient books of India and after reading the same book today we know that Aryan or Dravidian were never mentioned as races or language families.

 

[bronxbull]

most people like joe shearer rely merely on empirical evidence,that guy got 7/10 right,so i ll believe 70% of his next 10 ten judgements,even though there is no guarantee he ll get things right next time forget about 7 of the next 10.