Arunachal shows China how democracy works

[haawk]

Let me guess...You read it, but was too embarrass to response ,

Right ? HaHaHa

may be your have a thick head that cannot think beyond what it has already made up ........you cannot comprehend others replies ,so you just comment on their posts as as useless ,,,,,,its a failure on your part to not understand or come to terms with reality.....not the other's

 

[boxer_B]

Just as Hukou dosen't work in today's China, your vote can't keep people from hunger.

Much to your horror, PRC is planning to abolish Hukou.

Are you going to abolish your vote?

No, Since the way revolts of local population is increasing in China as a result of discontent from communism, we would better stick with democracy.

Not only is the regime aware that it is judged by its performance rather than its pronouncements, it knows that mass demonstrations occasioned by perceived slights to China--and such large-scale protests occurred during the incidents just mentioned--could turn into mass protests aimed at the regime itself. This fear is not paranoiac; there is no dearth of kindling to stoke the fire. Today's China is rife with revolts, some involving clashes with the security services, by workers and peasants--and other segments of society--over a range of issues: job losses, land seizures, rising socioeconomic inequality, corruption, environmental degradation and the ineffectiveness of courts. Moreover, the protests are growing in number and size and are becoming better organized. According to official Chinese data, the number of protests increased from 58,000 in 2003 to 85,000 in 2005 (almost four million people took part in 2004), and the Ministry of Public Safety likened the sharp upswing since the latter half of the 1990s to a "violent wind." The true number--tightly guarded by the authorities--is quite likely to be much higher.

The Changing of the Guard. -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Why? The infrastructure, the cities shanghai & beijing looks great but chinese from other province cannot migrate there and remains like alien country to them.

Democracy is not wrong, sure people contending for election may be.
As more and more Indians get literate, it will run smoothly and more beautifully than now. After economic reforms, india has gained much progress than can be expected from this chaotic system. We are the second fastest growing nation in the world and one of the least affected from global recession.

Forget AP, its not the real issue. India's and china's name was taken in same breath in 1960 and now again in 2008/9. That's what makes china to adopt an aggressive posture.

 

[indiatech]

I cant believe. Some chinese are like , Democracy is western etc. It never works. It will never work for india etc.

Democracy is never successful . well examples, US, europe , india hundresd of other countries.

Well communist is best because it works for china. Look at the north koreans, soviets, venezuelans. Communists really works.

Sick thinking.

 

[applesauce]

I cant believe. Some chinese are like , Democracy is western etc. It never works. It will never work for india etc.

Democracy is never successful . well examples, US, europe , india hundresd of other countries.

Well communist is best because it works for china. Look at the north koreans, soviets, venezuelans. Communists really works.

Sick thinking.

Venezuelans are commies now?

and you know what? judging by the development in china and india, yes chinese communism is working better. you can go on about how people in india has the vote blab blab, point is average life is better in china.

also democracy has not yet proven to be the great yet, imperial systems have lasted longer with great prosperity in the past. we'll have to wait and see

 

[wilsonnadar]

This is the first time my writing brought so much attention, and criticism. wow, I love the freedom of speech, and different opinion, and view point. Amazing. I wish any of a Chinese member can do that in his country, for his own people like what he is doing here for India. (now dont tell me china is all perfect. Even if it is perfect to your own eyes, there is always room for improvement, and all you have to do is think out side the box) I am happy to know Chinese people take so much interest in knowing about India. In fact if I didn't go to China I wouldn't be knowing so much about China. May be i wouldn't care to write this either hehe.
I read some answer were like i can get CNN, I can go to Shanghai, etc. You lucky guy. Good for you. I wrote, what i faced when I was in China. I know i never had an uncle in China, so I could be as privileged as you. In fact most of the (say90% ) your brethren would envy you.
One more new thing i heard from my Chinese Friends.
Nowadays every city in China has its own internet spin doctors. They are employed by the CCP propaganda ministry. Say for example, something bad in the system, or a privileged member of local party, is abusive, or doing something bad. and you realize its bad, and write it in blog, or in chat room, or in QQ about it. as you write something bad, these spin doctors come in to action. the first guy will agree to you, and slightly change the story, so after say 20 response they would have successfully hijacked the whole thread, and turn the first poster a bad guy, and he will be in the list. Well, that's what the Chinese freedom is about I guess. Everything here is a relative term, if you compare china with NK, or Burma. Keep coming my friends. Its all depend upon, if a choice given between freedom and prosperity, some would choose freedom, some would choose prosperity. For me dignity comes with freedom. and i choose freedom. No offense to those who choose prosperity because they had no other choice. Have a good one guys. Cheers.

 

[oceanx]

This is the first time my writing brought so much attention, and criticism. ... hehe.

Everybody likes attention, no? Hehe indeed ...

I know i never had an uncle in China, so I could be as privileged as you. In fact most of the (say90% ) your brethren would envy you.

Come again, why would you want an uncle in China? IMO, having one in Cambodia is just as good - or bad. I still have several in the land of no democracy - ain't helping me much. On the other hand, the gracious nation of Canada "lifted" me up plenty I'm sure you'd agree.

Say for example, something bad in the system, or a privileged member of local party, is abusive, or doing something bad. and you realize its bad, and write it in blog, or in chat room, or in QQ about it. as you write something bad, these spin doctors come in to action. the first guy will agree to you, and slightly change the story, so after say 20 response they would have successfully hijacked the whole thread, and turn the first poster a bad guy, and he will be in the list. Well, that's what the Chinese freedom is about I guess.

Dude, indeed the tragedy is that China is busying putting up a caste with the red princelings calling the shots, and India is taking down the castes, well, until the RSS types get agitated.

But internet subversion? 五毛(fifty cents) brigade? All learned from NED's Color Revolution days! Don't get me started. PRC never picks up the good habits, it seems. Now it's progressing from old Pravda-style propaganda where things were "obvious" to "media management" - yes, "that's what the Chinese freedom is about" - as you guess.

For me dignity comes with freedom. and i choose freedom. No offense to those who choose prosperity because they had no other choice. Have a good one guys. Cheers.

Sure, good on you to have paid a trip to the Orient to see for yourself, dear fellow Canadian / Cambodian Canadian / Canadian Cambodian (just want to cover the permutations as it's Canada, you know what I mean), and come back more appreciative.

But without you knowing it, other(s) here may have taken to the streets during high school on June 5, 1991 for "democracy". All the while didn't stay in hotels and wondered where my CNN went. Then guess what, of all people, who came to save the damn CCP? Those accursed carpet baggers from the West who brought colour revolutions, I mean, sorry, "democracy" to Russia and Yugoslavia ...

Then came the World-wide Democracy Crusade. After that, how easy do you think is it to peddle "democracy"?

So yes, democracy is great. In Canada it's worked fairly well so far. I whole-heartedly wish it works wonders in India as literacy rates and quality of candidates improve.

But at this time, it is not yet showing the way for China, AP or no AP - cool Bollywood types in shades "passing off" for Nagas notwithstanding.

But I sincerely wish it shows China the way, say, in 10-15 years time - so I can pick up the torch once again if I am around.

P.S., I am nonplussed myself with PRC grandstanding on AP - and not exactly impressed.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Everybody likes attention, no? Hehe indeed ...



Come again, why would you want an uncle in China? IMO, having one in Cambodia is just as good - or bad. I still have several in the land of no democracy - ain't helping me much. On the other hand, the gracious nation of Canada "lifted" me up plenty I'm sure you'd agree.



Dude, indeed the tragedy is that China is busying putting up a caste with the red princelings calling the shots, and India is taking down the castes, well, until the RSS types get agitated.

But internet subversion? 五毛(fifty cents) brigade? All learned from NED's Color Revolution days! Don't get me started. PRC never picks up the good habits, it seems. Now it's progressing from old Pravda-style propaganda where things were "obvious" to "media management" - yes, "that's what the Chinese freedom is about" - as you guess.





Sure, good on you to have paid a trip to the Orient to see for yourself, dear fellow Canadian / Cambodian Canadian / Canadian Cambodian (just want to cover the permutations as it's Canada, you know what I mean), and come back more appreciative.

But without you knowing it, other(s) here may have taken to the streets during high school on June 5, 1991 for "democracy". All the while didn't stay in hotels and wondered where my CNN went. Then guess what, of all people, who came to save the damn CCP? Those accursed carpet baggers from the West who brought colour revolutions, I mean, sorry, "democracy" to Russia and Yugoslavia ...

Then came the World-wide Democracy Crusade. After that, how easy do you think is it to peddle "democracy"?

So yes, democracy is great. In Canada it's worked fairly well so far. I whole-heartedly wish it works wonders in India as literacy rates and quality of candidates improve.

But at this time, it is not yet showing the way for China, AP or no AP - cool Bollywood types in shades "passing off" for Nagas notwithstanding.

But I sincerely wish it shows China the way, say, in 10-15 years time - so I can pick up the torch once again if I am around.

P.S., I am nonplussed myself with PRC grandstanding on AP - and not exactly impressed.

This Indian poser can't stop himself from taking every opportunity to lie and defame. Typical....

 

[oceanx]

This Indian poser can't stop himself from taking every opportunity to lie and defame. Typical....

Oh yeah, shame on me.

Let's the real deal - the resident self-styled "ZOG" fighter, Iranian non-Pakistani "Chinese" illiterate sister/babysitter SIF! Or by her own admission yesterday a Filipino? Anyways, I learned a new word from you - "Pinoy" - thanks! Grateful to learn something - always.

Even though you know less the language than the Slow Lane, who can at least flaunt a few phrases, or Boy Grey, who can read a few words it seems from time to time, there's no need to be so self-conscious and over-kill yourself, really.

But then again, would a tiny square of "Pinoy" flag for a little "recognition" kill you?

If I were an Indian (which by no means do I take offense at that), then what does that make you?

Well, actually who cares? No one wants to "steal" your hard-earned job babysitting the sq@d boys as usual.

 

[Merilion]

I cant believe. Some chinese are like , Democracy is western etc. It never works. It will never work for india etc.

Democracy is never successful . well examples, US, europe , india hundresd of other countries.

Well communist is best because it works for china. Look at the north koreans, soviets, venezuelans. Communists really works.

Sick thinking.

whatever ppl say, the ground reality is India pales in comparision with China in almost every field. Chinese ppl won't be easily convinced until one day the ground reality changed.

when you take US, europe as example, pls ask yourself some questions:
What's the average education level they were at the time?
Did they have a mass population still struggling for food at the time?
Democrazy is very expensive, it needs a sound economic base for it to be workable.
There is a reason why children don't have rights to vote. Compares with a kid how much better a illiterate in a medias hyped world can be?

I yet to see a single country is out of poverity after it turned to democrazy. They still remain as poor as before.
On the other hand I see South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan successfully turned to democrazy AFTER they developed a sound ecnonmic base under dictatorship not long ago.

btw, China's current political system is far more complicate than the tiny word 'communist' can describe.

 

[oceanx]

whatever ppl say, the ground reality is India pales in comparision with China in almost every field. Chinese ppl won't be easily convinced until one day the ground reality changed.

when you take US, europe as example, pls ask yourself some questions:
What's the average education level they were at the time?
Did they have a mass population still struggling for food at the time?
Democrazy is very expensive, it needs a sound economic base for it to be workable.
There is a reason why children don't have rights to vote. Compares with a kid how much better a illiterate in a medias hyped world can be?

I yet to see a single country is out of poverity after it turned to democrazy. They still remain as poor as before.
On the other hand I see South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan successfully turned to democrazy AFTER they developed a sound ecnonmic base under dictatorship not long ago.

btw, China's current political system is far more complicate than the tiny word 'communist' can describe.

The key is a system of accountability. Although being accountable to whom is a bigger question.

If democracy brings it and ensures accountability, then democracy is the name of the game.

I sincerely hope India brings forward a solid example in the future - and not some Bollywood pictures of NED style propaganda.

 

[Nemesis]

whatever ppl say, the ground reality is India pales in comparision with China in almost every field. Chinese ppl won't be easily convinced until one day the ground reality changed.

Whether this is true or not is really besides the point. Economic development is no substitute for democratic accountability.

Democrazy is very expensive, it needs a sound economic base for it to be workable.

Absolute nonsense.

I yet to see a single country is out of poverity after it turned to democrazy. They still remain as poor as before.

Eh? No nation has ever truly eradicated poverty, ever. or do you mean developed? The western world started truly developing only after it rejected monarchy for some semblance of democracy.

China's current political system is far more complicate than the tiny word 'communist' can describe.

China is not communist. It is a one party capitalist dictatorship.

Chinese members here keep comparing themselves to India to prove how democracy is a failure, Yet they conveniently forget that in the eyes of the world, Both India and China and developing nations. China may be marginally better off than India but it has no basis to compare itself with the truly developed nations in the world.

 

[oceanx]

Chinese members here keep comparing themselves to India to prove how democracy is a failure, Yet they conveniently forget that in the eyes of the world, Both India and China and developing nations. China may be marginally better off than India but it has no basis to compare itself with the truly developed nations in the world.

In fairness, apart from a few Brigands and the usual suspects who tend to be insecure, no Chinese, in China or expats, do not know the above.

This is probably the least argued point - but worth emphasizing to all once again perhaps.

 

[Merilion]

Whether this is true or not is really besides the point. Economic development is no substitute for democratic accountability.

It's true. I don't want to go to UN statistic board to get the data here to hurt your feeling, but, please don't live in denial.

Eh? No nation has ever truly eradicated poverty, ever. or do you mean developed? The western world started truly developing only after it rejected monarchy for some semblance of democracy.

I was not talking abt to completely eradicate poverty, any person with a open mind should know what I meant.
The point is there is no developing country turned to developed country after it adapted democrazy system but there are some good examples that developing country turned to democrazy successfully after they became developed country under a dictatorship.
Oh, pls don't be confused, the democrazy I am talking abt here is 'workable' democrazy, it's not quite the same as the one India is having.

Chinese members here keep comparing themselves to India to prove how democracy is a failure, Yet they conveniently forget that in the eyes of the world, Both India and China and developing nations. China may be marginally better off than India but it has no basis to compare itself with the truly developed nations in the world.

I don't live in denial. China is still a developing country far behind US. We want to catch up with US as soon as possible and that's one of the reasons we want to have a strong efficient govt to lead the country.
I might be too much optimism but I see China becomes to a democratic country before India can win its war on poverty. of course this is just my personal opinion.

 

[Nemesis]

It's true. I don't want to go to UN statistic board to get the data here to hurt your feeling, but, please don't live in denial.

What statistics are these? According to the UN human development report China is ranked at 98 and India at 132. China's per capita income is about $5000, India is around $2400. As i said marginally better. Both India and China are developing countries or to use a politically incorrect term, third world nations.

I was not talking abt to completely eradicate poverty, any person with a open mind should know what I meant.
The point is there is no developing country turned to developed country after it adapted democrazy system but there are some good examples that developing country turned to democrazy successfully after they became developed country under a dictatorship.

As i said, almost the entire western europe became developed only after they rejected monarchy for some semblance of democracy. So your point stands refuted. Would you like me to give some examples?

Oh, pls don't be confused, the democrazy I am talking abt here is 'workable' democrazy, it's not quite the same as the one India is having.

India, inspite of it's problems, is a workable democracy. Please provide points to refute this assertion. Fact is, the majority of the people who vote in elections are not from the ruling or the middle class. That is why Mumbai registers a voting % of 50% while far off villages register a voter turnout in the late 60's.

I don't live in denial. China is still a developing country far behind US. We want to catch up with US as soon as possible and that's one of the reasons we want to have a strong efficient govt to lead the country.

Efficiency is good. Democracy is better. We might develop a decade later than China but we won't compromise on our democratic freedoms.

I might be too much optimism but I see China becomes to a democratic country before India can win its war on poverty. of course this is just my personal opinion.

This is conjecture. You can't say what might happen in the future, but i'll just state that for a dictatorship to become a democracy is not an easy process. After the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia was in absolute choas for two decades, it is only now that they have started recovering. China might have to undergo a similar difficult transition.

 

[Merilion]

What statistics are these? According to the UN human development report China is ranked at 98 and India at 132. China's per capita income is about $5000, India is around $2400. As i said marginally better. Both India and China are developing countries or to use a politically incorrect term, third world nations.

The big question here is 60 years ago, the two countries were at least abt the same level if India was not 'marginally' better then.
I don't know others but to me the gap between $2400 and $5000 is huge for similiar size population countries.

As i said, almost the entire western europe became developed only after they rejected monarchy for some semblance of democracy. So your point stands refuted. Would you like me to give some examples?

You didn't answer my previous questions:
What's the average education level west europes were at the time?
Did they have a mass population still struggling for food at the time?
Europe has gone through several hundred years social/economic development, the social base was very much different. Please don't go back too far, just give me an example in the past 60 years(long enough?) any developing country(third world country) successfully progressed to developed country under democratic system? The country need to be meaningfully sized. Don't give me an example of a country with less than 2m people.

India, inspite of it's problems, is a workable democracy. Please provide points to refute this assertion. Fact is, the majority of the people who vote in elections are not from the ruling or the middle class. That is why Mumbai registers a voting % of 50% while far off villages register a voter turnout in the late 60's.

What an illiterate can do to change a country? Based on what he vote for? people live in slums(India or China) worry abt their food the very next day, do they bother too much for election? Is it too hard for them to exchange their votes with bread they need the very next hours?

Efficiency is good. Democracy is better. We might develop a decade later than China but we won't compromise on our democratic freedoms.

For me, for the time being, I'm willing to sacrifice my politcal freedom(voting right) for the growth which I believe in the long run will enable my next generations to enjoy better life, economically, as well as politcally.

This is conjecture. You can't say what might happen in the future, but i'll just state that for a dictatorship to become a democracy is not an easy process. After the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia was in absolute choas for two decades, it is only now that they have started recovering. China might have to undergo a similar difficult transition.

Anything is possible. So far so good for China and I see it's on the right track.