Arunachal shows China how democracy works

[rajeev]

Thanks for your narrative of your family. It does open some view to outsiders.

Nonetheless, your single story hasn't/can't negate the prevailing influence of Caste system. Yes, your government appears to have done something;Yes, some wisemen did something. But your Hindu social soil is based/rooted on that.

Who says Caste system is good? My parents especially my mother feels like she is superior to some others because she is born in a high caste. But to me, that is as stupid as anything else! The new generation does not concern itself with much of stupidity of past centuries.

Caste system is a pyramid scheme and like in any pyramid scheme there are far fewer at the top and lot more at the bottom. Having a democratic form of govt. gives one vote for one person i.e. the vast majority so-called lower caste decides the future of the country. That cures the caste problem.

Also, there are two India as I see my India - one rural and one urban.

In urban India, hardly anyone cares about what religion, caste and anything for that matter. My father's best friend is a Muslim and they invite us for all their festivals and likewise we too! I had so many friends - Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikh and met only 1 Jain. The first time I became aware of religion was during Babri Masjid days. So sad! I felt like a lost face! I think most Hindus would have felt the same as well. Before that, religion was just a cultural thing.

In other India - rural ones - especially the areas now have Maoists is the places where there is strong irritation between high-caste and low-caste people. But in due time,things should change as govt is interested in the upliftment of the community.

In India, there are more lower-caste political leaders and chief ministers. The current PM is a Sikh, the next PM might be "Hindu Pandit-Italian". But do you think any one cares! People voted for Vajypayee, but look at Advani - he is currently a laughing stock.

As literacy increases and the older generation goes away, intermarriage will become a common thing and democracy will kick rest of it out! But this slow nature will ensure India will stay united. In China, there is a fast action by government - efficient ofcourse, but causes resentment. Communication is delinked and heavily managed by the govt. But eventually, people know as people travel. Chinese govt appears to be doing more good than bad atleast when compared to other authoritarian governments. But that is what I thought of USSR before their dramatic collapse. So I really dont know!

I personally think religion is cause of all the problem. It promotes ignorance, intolerance and justifies any criminal activity. It is like a kool-aid that when an otherwise rational person drinks it, cant seem to his own mind! I think atheism is the only way to grow!

 

[vandemataram]

This is the first time my writing brought so much attention, and criticism. wow, I love the freedom of speech, and different opinion, and view point. Amazing. I wish any of a Chinese member can do that in his country, for his own people like what he is doing here for India. (now dont tell me china is all perfect. Even if it is perfect to your own eyes, there is always room for improvement, and all you have to do is think out side the box) I am happy to know Chinese people take so much interest in knowing about India. In fact if I didn't go to China I wouldn't be knowing so much about China. May be i wouldn't care to write this either hehe.
I read some answer were like i can get CNN, I can go to Shanghai, etc. You lucky guy. Good for you. I wrote, what i faced when I was in China. I know i never had an uncle in China, so I could be as privileged as you. In fact most of the (say90% ) your brethren would envy you.
One more new thing i heard from my Chinese Friends.
Nowadays every city in China has its own internet spin doctors. They are employed by the CCP propaganda ministry. Say for example, something bad in the system, or a privileged member of local party, is abusive, or doing something bad. and you realize its bad, and write it in blog, or in chat room, or in QQ about it. as you write something bad, these spin doctors come in to action. the first guy will agree to you, and slightly change the story, so after say 20 response they would have successfully hijacked the whole thread, and turn the first poster a bad guy, and he will be in the list. Well, that's what the Chinese freedom is about I guess. Everything here is a relative term, if you compare china with NK, or Burma. Keep coming my friends. Its all depend upon, if a choice given between freedom and prosperity, some would choose freedom, some would choose prosperity. For me dignity comes with freedom. and i choose freedom. No offense to those who choose prosperity because they had no other choice. Have a good one guys. Cheers.

I am wondering how this guy from Cambodia is going to be bombarded with CCP props..

 

[oceanx]

I think atheism is the only way to grow!

Most definitely and emphatically I disagree with the above.

Having said this, should you substitute "Atheism" with "Secularism", then your conclusion would be on much firmer grounds. Now I am not exactly completely unawares of the Advani types who regularly shill about "pseudo-secularism". We had plently of "education" around here from CanHindu types ...

Anyways, I do appreciate the sentiment and overall thrust of your post.

The overall problem of India, which everyone from India that I talked to knows, is the age-old Communitarianism in any of its manifestations: be it "Casteism/Jatism", "colorism", sectarianism, religious divisionism, Naxalism, "vote-banking-ism" ...

PRC has its own analogues, but generally more "manageable" - by that I mean by a "dictatorial" power - for a time.

Homogenizing an "original" multi-cultural society like India with a forced mass upheaval such as the "Cultural Revolution" will break up the country - clear and simple. PRC in fact came to the brink itself near the end, if it wasn't for the army and the army Intelligence Apparatus.

A total dictatorship could not work for China after the last strong man, Deng, exited the stage. Only "Politburo"-style consensus seems to be able to implement any writ.

A multi-cultural/multi-racial/multi-religious Plutocracy as that practiced by India, Brazil, and the USA require some form of - even if pro-forma validation at the grass-roots level to retain an appearance of legitimacy.

In a secular society, there is IMO no difference between legitimacy and the appearance of legitimacy. Every "ruler" is but a "prince" ...

To advise India to end "casteism" through a "dictatorship" is to advise India to dissolve itself. I am not entirely blind to the fact that the extreme sensitivity of this subject in India has to do with its "appeal" to some internally.

Ditto for China - if the country divides, it will be along the lines of military districts. Bharat will just go back to "little Indias".

To advise USA to end all manifestations of "racism" through massive cultural marxist interventions is also risky business.

Along the same line, Brazil is not going to embrace a revolution to overturn "colourism", nor is PRC going to survive another Maoist/Khmer Rouge-style upheaval. Hence "Hukou" is a necessary, though hopefully transitory evil.

Better than slums - but it has limits.

The key to any "XXX-cracy" nowadays is the test of "Meritocracy" with some degrees of accountability, though the definition of merit is subject to debate.

In the struggle to define Merit, religion and faith do play a role, sometimes unseen. To an outsider, classic Hinduism seems to emphasize "varna" as merit - no different from how an Afrikaner defined merit some two decades ago.

But today, God's Grace - acting through the agent of circumstance and empirical evidence - determined that a Southern Dravidian who is "good at math" is far more meritorious than a desi who is a few shades lighter ...

Again, why go to India when you can learn all this living next to "Bramladesh" flame. It does take a bit of work ...

After coming to Canada, I in fact discovered that even Southern Chinese/Cantonese looked a bit different from the people I grew up with in Shanghai, too. Their tongues are alien, as is their dimsum flame.

Through later readings, I discovered the Yuan "Jatis" and Manchu "communitarianism" that favoured Northern Chinese over centuries.

But the Canadian Meritocracy has functioned as an imperfect, but effective equalizer.

May God show the same Grace to the people of East and South Asia - one day, through the free will of the people there.

 

[Naradmuni]

@ gpit
For your democracy? Please bring down your hunger and illiteracy before touting/teaching.

Are you suggesting different versions of democracy out of which indian version is inferior?? Democracy is a concept unlike communism ( basically socialist preaching that has versions based upon who preached it), and is universal.

And seriously there is no point in crediting hunger and illeteracy to democracy.
I mean freedom to express oneself and having the right to have a say in decision making and future of the country in no way can be attributed to the prevailing (also declining) hunger and illeteracy. It is not that whole polpulation of india was very rich and prosperous and when after independence we switched on to democracy, things began to worsen.

In fact it is the exact opposite.

India was born with a lot of problems to start with. And I dont say that we do not have problems anymore but efforts are being made to overcome these problems and signs of these efforts are already been witnessed. Illeteracy has gone down from 65 percent to 27 percent and similarly there has been a considerable amount of self sufficiency after the green revolution and likewise in rest of the fields. Point is, that problems could not be solved overnight and attributing problems to the concept of democracy is preposterous.

If democracy is the culprit then i could imagine north koreans eating 5 times a day and winning nobels every now and then (chinese 12 times a day )

Basically I would consider communism to a "dope / drugs" which will help you to improve your performance and make you feel really good, but would eventually be harmful if consumed over a long period of time (eg. fate of USSR).

 

[ever4244]

Most definitely and emphatically I disagree with the above.

Having said this, should you substitute "Atheism" with "Secularism", then your conclusion would be on much firmer grounds. Now I am not exactly completely unawares of the Advani types who regularly shill about "pseudo-secularism". We had plently of "education" around here from CanHindu types ...

Anyways, I do appreciate the sentiment and overall thrust of your post.

The overall problem of India, which everyone from India that I talked to knows, is the age-old Communitarianism in any of its manifestations: be it "Casteism/Jatism", "colorism", sectarianism, religious divisionism, Naxalism, "vote-banking-ism" ...

PRC has its own analogues, but generally more "manageable" - by that I mean by a "dictatorial" power - for a time.

Homogenizing an "original" multi-cultural society like India with a forced mass upheaval such as the "Cultural Revolution" will break up the country - clear and simple. PRC in fact came to the brink itself near the end, if it wasn't for the army and the army Intelligence Apparatus.

A total dictatorship could not work for China after the last strong man, Deng, exited the stage. Only "Politburo"-style consensus seems to be able to implement any writ.

A multi-cultural/multi-racial/multi-religious Plutocracy as that practiced by India, Brazil, and the USA require some form of - even if pro-forma validation at the grass-roots level to retain an appearance of legitimacy.

In a secular society, there is IMO no difference between legitimacy and the appearance of legitimacy. Every "ruler" is but a "prince" ...

To advise India to end "casteism" through a "dictatorship" is to advise India to dissolve itself. I am not entirely blind to the fact that the extreme sensitivity of this subject in India has to do with its "appeal" to some internally.

Ditto for China - if the country divides, it will be along the lines of military districts. Bharat will just go back to "little Indias".

To advise USA to end all manifestations of "racism" through massive cultural marxist interventions is also risky business.

Along the same line, Brazil is not going to embrace a revolution to overturn "colourism", nor is PRC going to survive another Maoist/Khmer Rouge-style upheaval. Hence "Hukou" is a necessary, though hopefully transitory evil.

Better than slums - but it has limits.

The key to any "XXX-cracy" nowadays is the test of "Meritocracy" with some degrees of accountability, though the definition of merit is subject to debate.

In the struggle to define Merit, religion and faith do play a role, sometimes unseen. To an outsider, classic Hinduism seems to emphasize "varna" as merit - no different from how an Afrikaner defined merit some two decades ago.

But today, God's Grace - acting through the agent of circumstance and empirical evidence - determined that a Southern Dravidian who is "good at math" is far more meritorious than a desi who is a few shades lighter ...

Again, why go to India when you can learn all this living next to "Bramladesh" flame. It does take a bit of work ...

After coming to Canada, I in fact discovered that even Southern Chinese/Cantonese looked a bit different from the people I grew up with in Shanghai, too. Their tongues are alien, as is their dimsum flame.

Through later readings, I discovered the Yuan "Jatis" and Manchu "communitarianism" that favoured Northern Chinese over centuries.

But the Canadian Meritocracy has functioned as an imperfect, but effective equalizer.

May God show the same Grace to the people of East and South Asia - one day, through the free will of the people there.

Thanks for the deep insight.

India in some extent remind me of Austria in 18-19 centuries. A huge boat pasted together wavering in the storm of revolutions and extreme ideals, unable to turn to any direction without getting itself teared apart. So every change there has to be slow, every tradition of vice or virtue has to be complied.

 

[vsdoc]

The current PM is a Sikh, the next PM might be "Hindu Pandit-Italian".

Parsi-Hindu-Italian (1/4-1/4-1/2) ..... and I heard he is serious about a firangan too ..... potential for really smart kids!

Cheers, Doc

 

[Brisingr]

INDIA: Starvation deaths ongoing due to administrative neglect

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 21, 2008
ALRC-CWS-07-002-2008

A written statement submitted by the Asian Legal Resource Centre to the 7th session of the UN Human Rights Council



INDIA: Starvation deaths ongoing due to administrative neglect

1. 45-year-old Mr. Teras Ram died from acute starvation on December 24, 2007. Ram is from the Chamar community in Baisa village, Jaunpur district, Uttar Pradesh State. The Chamar are a lower caste community considered to be untouchable by the caste Hindus. While India is rich in food supplies and self-sufficient in its food requirements (1) , acute starvation and malnourishment remain ongoing concerns. In the past 12 months the ALRC has documented at least 29 cases of starvation deaths from India (2).

2. The cases documented by the ALRC shows a consistent and widespread pattern of administrative neglect that results in acute starvation, death from malnutrition and malnutrition induced diseases in India. Each case documented by the ALRC was immediately brought to the attention of the Government of India and the respective State/Provincial government. In each case, the response by the government was absolute denial. In spite of specific calls for administrative actions to address the issue of starvation and malnutrition, the Government of India has done nothing credible thus far to address the situation.

3. As in the case of Ram, most deaths from starvation are reported from the lower caste (Dalit) communities in the country. Discrimination within society owing to caste-based prejudices and poverty, means that the benefits of government welfare programmes does not reach this community. In order to guarantee food security, which is a fundamental right in India (3), the government has constituted a public distribution network under the Ministry of Food and Public Distribution. However, this public distribution system (PDS), is plagued by rampant corruption, causing it to malfunctions. (4) The ALRC has in the past has submitted reports to the UN expressing concern over this issue (5).

4. Corruption in the PDS system promotes starvation. Coupled with the discriminatory practices in the government health service sector, the poor often die from malnutrition and malnutrition-induced sicknesses. 18-month-old Alina Shahin, a resident of Lohta Panchayath, Kashi Vidhya Peed Block in Varanasi District, Uttar Pradesh State, died on September 13, 2007. Prior to her death, Alina was taken to the government public health facility in Lohta. The staff at the facility not only refused treatment but assaulted Alina’s elder sister, Khusnuma, who accompanied Alina to the facility.

5. Alina was suffering from Grade IV malnutrition. The ALRC was alerted to Alina’s situation prior to her death through it local partner, the People’s Vigilance Committee on Human Rights (PVCHR). The ALRC on September 3, 2007, contacted the district administration through its sister-organisation, the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC). The AHRC urged the head of the district administration, the District Magistrate (DM), Ms. Veena Kumari, to ensure that Alina receive immediate medical attention. The DM refused to take action and through a press release denied the case.

6. In the statement, the DM accused the PVCHR and other local NGOs of shaming the country by reporting cases of starvation. As the result of a lack of State-intervention, Alina died 10 days later. The DM refuted the cause of death. In most cases of starvation deaths, the Government of India has refused to accept that deaths were due to starvation. This case is, however, not a unique experience witnessed by the ALRC (6).

7. The ALRC has observed that whenever a case of starvation is reported, the Indian authorities try to silence the local organisation that reported the case. The condemnable practice of the Indian authorities is to threaten and intimidate the local organisation. Registering false cases against the organisation or the persons involved with such an organisation is a common practice (7).

8. The continuation of feudal practices in India is one more reason for starvation and food insecurity in India. The landlords, often from the upper caste, force members of the lower caste to work for them. Bonded labour is a common practice in the country (8). Most States in India are yet to legislate and implement land reforms laws. Left with no cultivable land or work, the villagers are often forced to work for the local landlords for practically nothing. The wages are often provided in the form of a daily meal. Entire families are forced to work in conditions equivalent to slavery (9).

9. The correlation between bonded labour, the absence of land reform policies and starvation is proven by the simple fact that in States where land reforms have been implemented, cases of starvation and malnutrition are far less frequently reported (10). In the past three years, not a single case of starvation deaths has been reported from the State of Kerala (11). The nation-wide implementation of land reforms is yet to materialise owing to strong political opposition. Many legislators in India are feudal lords (12).

10. Even the Indian judiciary has tried and failed to address the issue of food security. The Supreme Court of India, through a series of interim orders, has tried to address this issue. The court, finding that the Government is clueless and non-responsive regarding the issue, mandated its own Commissioners to investigate and report to the court on the situation of starvation and malnutrition. The Commissioners appointed by the court were also tasked with receiving and investigating complaints of starvation, malnutrition and corruption in the PDS system. Even after six years of this exercise, the situation of food security in India has not improved.

11. The Government of India has also tried several indirect means to ensure a day’s meal for the poor. Schemes like the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act, 2005 (NREGA), the midday meal scheme and the Targeted Public Food Distribution System are examples. It is true that the NREGA has generated rural employment. However, the payment for the employment failed to reach the poor, due to corruption. Those who challenged the system either lost their lives, or, as reported from States like Chhattisgarh, were accused of being Naxalites (13).

12. The corrupt caucus between the law enforcement agencies, landlords and their mafia, the local politicians and an inept, negligent and corrupt administrative set-up, together smother food security in India. (14) India’s accession to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights took place on July 10, 1979. Most of the rights enshrined in the Covenant have been included in domestic law in India. Like the right to food, many of these rights are justiciable, yet people starve to death in India. The failure of the Government of India to protect, promote and fulfil this fundamental human right is a blight on India’s human rights record.

13. India is one of the world’s fastest developing economies and has a reasonably functioning justice system. India’s courts have made commendable contributions to the development of domestic and international human rights jurisprudence. Indians have attained and continue to occupy enviable positions in international organisations, including the UN. India has offered assistance and developmental aid to other developing nations. Yet, an estimated 60% of Indians in the country face malnutrition or even starvation.

14. Against this backdrop, the ALRC is not urging the Human Rights Council to make any specific recommendations to the Government of India based on this written submission. The Government of India is aware of what is to be done to address the situation of food security in the country.

15. The purpose of this written statement is to bring to the attention of the international community the predicament of a large section of India’s populace, which the Government of India has thus far ignored and covered up cases related to violations of their rights. The UN Human Rights Council making a recommendation to the Government of India will not bring 18-month-old Alina back to life.

16. The ALRC expects the Government of India, which is a member of the Human Rights Council, to respect its obligation to protect, promote and fulfil the fundamental right to food of its citizens.

---------

Footnotes:

1 The High Level Committee constituted by the Ministry of Food and Public Distribution in India in its reports claims that the country is self-sufficient in food grain production and that the country could even face a severe drought season without engendering a shortage of food for the needy.
2 Given the geographical expanse of the country, its population and the similarity in administrative failures in Provinces and States, the number of persons who face food shortage in India is expected to be very high.
3 While the Indian Constitution does not explicitly mention the right to food as a fundamental right, it is implicitly enshrined in Article 21 of the Constitution under the fundamental right to life. The Supreme Court of India has also reiterated that Article 21 of the Indian Constitution guarantees the right to food.
4 Report of the Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food E/CN.4/2006/44/Add.2, dated 20 March 2006.
5 INDIA: Widespread corruption in the Public Food Distribution System causing starvation deaths: ALRC (A/HRC/5/NGO/6)
6 “Speaking of local officials, the Special Rapporteur found a tendency to deny that any starvation deaths occurred, with reported deaths generally blamed on unrelated diseases such as measles.” Report of the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, E/CN.4/2006/44/Add.2, dated 20 March 2006, p.13, paragraph 32
7 India: Threats against Dr. Lenin Raghuvanshi and members of the Peoples Vigilance Committee on Human Rights (PVCHR): Frontline <http://www.frontlinedefenders.org/node/1307>
8 'Bonded labour still exists in many states' April 22, 2007 – Mr. P. Chidambaram, Finance Minister – Government of India, The Hindu April 22, 2007 <http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/23/stories/2007042304190500.htm>
9 Government of India: Ministry of Labour & Employment, Annual Report 2006-2007; The practice of bonded labour is prohibited under Article 23 of the Indian Constitution and also by specific enactment ~ The Bonded Labour System (Abolition) Act, 1976.
10 Organising for the Socio Economic Security for India: Sukti Das Gupta, ILO Geneva, October 2002.
11 The Sstate of Kerala implemented the Kerala Land Reforms Act in 1963, bringing a statutory limit to land holding.
12 For example, of the 543 legislators in the lower house of the Indian Parliament (Lok Sabha), 120 are from the States of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. Yet, these are the two States in India that record the lowest per capita income. The State is home to many senior politicians in India, yet it is one of the most backward States in terms of productivity and agricultural income.
13 Dr. Binayek Sen, a medical doctor and human rights activist from the State was vocal against the corrupt practices of the State administration. Even the Supreme Court of India has denied bail to Dr. Sen, in spite of the absence of any evidence linking Dr. Sen with Naxalites in the State. World renowned personalities like Prof. Noam Chomsky have written to the Government of India seeking Dr. Sen’s release, which the government refused.
14 Enforcing Right to Food in India - Bottlenecks in Delivering in the Expected Outcome: George Cheriyan, United Nations University ~ World Institute for Development Economics Research, November 2006


# # #

About the ALRC: The Asian Legal Resource Centre is an independent regional non-governmental organisation holding general consultative status with the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations. It is the sister organisation of the Asian Human Rights Commission. The Hong Kong-based group seeks to strengthen and encourage positive action on legal and human rights issues at the local and national levels throughout Asia.


Posted on 2008-02-21
Back to [ALRC Statements 2008]

Yeah we have our own problem and you have yours...

As the 2008 Chinese milk scandal broke in September 2008, some western media evoked suspicions that China's desire for a perfect olympic games may have been a factor contributing towards the delayed recall of contaminated infant formula, which has given more than 50,000 babies kidney stones and killed at least 4 infants.

There is unemployment, hunger and starvation in America too ...
Instead of throwing mud on each other let our arguments be constructive...

 

[Nemesis]

For all the posts on starvation in India, let me state that i never denied there weren't any starvation deaths in India. My remark suggested that the numbers are not in the "thousands" as stated by some chinese members here.

PS - I'm pretty sure there are starvation deaths in China as well, of course the Chinese government will never allow any report on it to be published. There in lies the difference between India and China, we are aware of our problems, the Chinese live in blissful ignorance.

 

[oct605032048]

the Chinese in your imagination lives in your blissful ignorance.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

no reason to discuss ...matter closed...lets discuss more important issue..critical to the stability of south asia.....THE TALIBANS.....they are back in pakistan..

 

[rajeev]

Most definitely and emphatically I disagree with the above.

Having said this, should you substitute "Atheism" with "Secularism", then your conclusion would be on much firmer grounds.

I am sorry I disagree with you. What I have seen in religion that taught me is that religion has never served for any good purpose.

Any religion wants to grow its influence i.e. its membership or patronage. The peaceful extremists wants to actively engage to talk to some one to prove that if you belong to some religion not only you get peaceful co-existence with God and live forever in the after-life, but in this life you get membership perks like community.

Religious dogma in all its forms serves one thing - existence of one God or multiple Gods - in all its forms and designs. The text written by ancient people who did not know why thunder strikes noted it for God's acts and several other things. People wrote texts to justify things, wrote many stories - some fairy tales, while accounting to cruelty and brutality of so-called loving God that can kill you if you dont accept him.

A man in 21st century does not have concede his knowledge to books written in ancient times 3000 BC-300AD(?? - Hindus), 0 AD(Christanity) and 600 AD(Muslims). We now have a fairly good idea of how we are born and may be even how the world/galaxy/
"theory of everything" was formed.

Can somebody please tell me what can religion give us that a rational atheist cant have? But of course, I can note many things that religion gives which destructive to other people in addition a level of myths added to their own lives.

If I make fun of the evolution of the stories that exists in religious books , not only it is considered notorious but people would get offended. This clearly how closed-minded some can be when people from one religion can burn things and cause riots for drawing a picture of their unseen God.

Secularism does not exist with any religion. They fight to seek their dominance of their Gods on other Gods. It is like people from one religion make fun of other religion for idol-worship but of course when Mary's statue has blood oozing, they make that idol - a God-sent from heaven.

Religion does not give scientific depth, but of course encourages schools to teach so-called "Intelligent Design" - which is an intelligent theory - providing a simple answer to every problem.
(a) God did it
(b) Why? Because God wanted
(c) How? God knows how
(d) God does not want you to know

I have heard these answers from old people when you ask them why they did do something and they have no real answers. And it is probably the same thing what the first religion propagator might have said to his followers when he saw lightning.

 

[gpit]

To democracy apologists:

In 1940s, China was in a much backward condition than India. British left many infrastructures, such as railroad, schools and post-offices to India. Japanese and Civil war left nearly nothing to China.

Please compare life expectancy, literacy rate, GDP, railroad mileages… at that time, and then compare all these indices now. A more comprehensive indicator is UN human development index.

Yes, there were ugly facts in China 35-40 years ago that shouldn’t be forgotten. And there are still ugly faces now in China.

Yes, you can vote, yes, you have free lying media… That’s not bad. But that dose not rule out the facts that, after 60 years, who provides overal better fundamental protection for its people: food, shelter, education, …, free from starvation, freedom of knowledge acquisition, …, freedom of free express, freedom from harassment… in that order of priority.

Dear apologists, I never deny the value of freedom. However, if there is a freedom for Brahmin to oppress the Dalits, there will not be a freedom for the Dalits not to be oppressed. If you have the freedom of starvation, you are deprived rights to any other freedoms.

Just a simple question: can a vote fill the stomach of a person dying of hunger? Can vote make your LCA more potent than J-10?

After all, voting or no voting, it’s the people who do the day-to-day job that makes it is now.

Bottom line: before India can stop huger, before India can stop illiteracy, stop pumping your democracy: there are much better examples than your hungry one: simply because no body wants to suffer from hunger.

Stop apologizing, start stopping huger!

 

[gpit]

For all the posts on starvation in India, let me state that i never denied there weren't any starvation deaths in India. My remark suggested that the numbers are not in the "thousands" as stated by some chinese members here.

PS - I'm pretty sure there are starvation deaths in China as well, of course the Chinese government will never allow any report on it to be published. There in lies the difference between India and China, we are aware of our problems, the Chinese live in blissful ignorance.

Would to stop being incredible be so difficult for you?

 

[sathruvinasakh]

To democracy apologists:

In 1940s, China was in a much backward condition than India. British left many infrastructures, such as railroad, schools and post-offices to India. Japanese and Civil war left nearly nothing to China.

Please compare life expectancy, literacy rate, GDP, railroad mileages… at that time, and then compare all these indices now. A more comprehensive indicator is UN human development index.

Yes, there were ugly facts in China 35-40 years ago that shouldn’t be forgotten. And there are still ugly faces now in China.

Yes, you can vote, yes, you have free lying media… That’s not bad. But that dose not rule out the facts that, after 60 years, who provides overal better fundamental protection for its people: food, shelter, education, …, free from starvation, freedom of knowledge acquisition, …, freedom of free express, freedom from harassment… in that order of priority.

Dear apologists, I never deny the value of freedom. However, if there is a freedom for Brahmin to oppress the Dalits, there will not be a freedom for the Dalits not to be oppressed. If you have the freedom of starvation, you are deprived rights to any other freedoms.

Just a simple question: can a vote fill the stomach of a person dying of hunger? Can vote make your LCA more potent than J-10?

After all, voting or no voting, it’s the people who do the day-to-day job that makes it is now.

Bottom line: before India can stop huger, before India can stop illiteracy, stop pumping your democracy: there are much better examples than your hungry one: simply because no body wants to suffer from hunger.

Stop apologizing, start stopping huger!

Before simply throwing ur hogwash,if would have appreciated more if you spare ur time to know the facts.

The so called brits you yanks love to suck,have robbed all the riches of India and left India in a dire and nasty state while igniting the Hindu-muslim conflict and becoming the main cause for the todays Indo-Pak rivalry,indo-Chinese rivalry.
What brits have left is those rusted metal strips of rails and those ready to breakdown telephone towers and so on.....
Hmmmm.You must be feeling happy that Ur queen wearing a Kohinoor diamond embeded in her crown.

At the time when the brits left India the population was a mere 300 million or even less. and More than 80% at that time were poor who were heavily robbed by brits and other colonialists.And with population growing at an exponential rate having 1.2 billion at the end of 2008 and having 25% poor(either living at less than a dollar pay or living on hunger).thanks to the western centric capitalism and the western centric psuedo rationalism which made india concentrate on its defence since the day of independence rather than on its poor.
No outsider today has the right to comment on poor people in India.Since they did more loss to the nation rather than doing any good.You racists and fundamentalist scumbags never wanted or willing to see India is a better state or free from poverty or 100% literacy....... If any one has the right to uplift the poor citizens or india or to educate the illiterates it has to be only Indians. We know how to take care of our poor.thanks for your concern.Go and show ur morphing capability with some other nation.

 

[sathruvinasakh]

no reason to discuss ...matter closed...lets discuss more important issue..critical to the stability of south asia.....THE TALIBANS.....they are back in pakistan..

Well.its a world wide known fact.Who is the supporter of terrorism.
there is a saying that "the probability of a snake biting his master feeding her milk everyday is 50%"
Hence its the time for Pakistan to go through the mess.Peace.