Army's new mountain divisions to get light field guns instead of howitzers

[lilaspr]

If all media reports are correct... seems Indian army is in big crunch when it comes to howitzers. Govt should take immediate steps to solve this issue.

 

[Abingdonboy]

If all media reports are correct... seems Indian army is in big crunch when it comes to howitzers. Govt should take immediate steps to solve this issue.

Yes this has been highlighted for some time, measures are being taken but, for some, it is to take too long. The problem is beauracy as the IA has been allocated >$8 BN to spend on arty modernisation.

 

[angeldemon_007]

These types of things will kill you.
Pakistan has tank type Howtizers such as the M110 that can move at a speed of 55 km/h and has a callibe of 203mm and range of 523km.
It is always best to go for something that has wheels...

I proposed it for IA's mountain division but you are talking about the best artillery in the world built by US and Germany together. The good thing with this system is you can mount it on wheel or track or just a separate unit as shown in the picture, its so light to making air-lift possible. Its the most innovative thing built in artillery in over 3 decades my friend.

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As far as 203 mm caliber is concerned my friend, there's a reason why nobody uses this high caliber artillery today (yeah countries have it but they also don't use it ). It isn't efficient to use and thats why 155mm has become standard.

I hope by range 523km you didn't thought it can fire the shell to a range of 523km... This range means that your artillery carrier (track vehicle) can travel a distance of 523 km.

Let me give you information on your M110 howitzer....

Type: 203mm SP Howitzer
Length 35.3 feet
Width 10.3 feet
Height 10.3 feet
Weight 31.2 tons
Speed 34 miles per hour / 56 km/h
Range 324 miles / 725 km
Crew: 5 + 8
Engine Detroit 8V-71T, 405 hp
Fuel Cap. 1137 lit
Fording: 1 m
Vertical Obstacle: .5 m
Gap Crossing: 2.3 m
Armament: 1 x 203mm M2a1 Howitzer [8-inch howitzer]
Ammo 2 x 203mm
Rate of fire 2 rounds per minute (maximum)
1 round per 2 minutes (sustained)
Range 16,800 meters
30,000 meters with rocket-assisted projectile
Armor: nil

The self-propelled M-110 8-inch [203 mm] howitzer first entered service with the US Army in 1963. The vehicle itself transports only two projectiles and five men, while the remainder of the ammunition and the crew is on board a tracked M548. The M-110 Howitzer fired a 200-pound projectile out to almost 17 kilometers (16,800-meters).

Now compare it with German Artillery Gun Module

Weight Module: 12.5 tons, with MLRS hull 27 tons
Crew 2 men
Main gun 155-mm
Barrel length 52 calibers
Maximum firing range 40-60 km
Maximum rate of fire 6 rpm
Elevation range 0 to + 70 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Main gun 30 rounds

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My suggestion to PA is to phase out this M110 artillery because the fu-king thing is heavy, needs 8 people to operate, range is less, heavier munition and rate of fire is also only 2 rpm. Why is PA using the world's most inefficient gun ??? LFG can also fire 18km and its rate of fire is also more, needs less number of crew, light munition, light in weight and so can be transported at a speed of 250km/hr via a heavy lift helicopter at any location where a vehicle might not reach.

 

[Edevelop]

I proposed it for IA's mountain division but you are talking about the best artillery in the world built by US and Germany together. The good thing with this system is you can mount it on wheel or track or just a separate unit as shown in the picture, its so light to making air-lift possible. Its the most innovative thing built in artillery in over 3 decades my friend.

-----------------------------------

As far as 203 mm caliber is concerned my friend, there's a reason why nobody uses this high caliber artillery today (yeah countries have it but they also don't use it ). It isn't efficient to use and thats why 155mm has become standard.

I hope by range 523km you didn't thought it can fire the shell to a range of 523km... This range means that your artillery carrier (track vehicle) can travel a distance of 523 km.

Let me give you information on your M110 howitzer....



Now compare it with German Artillery Gun Module

Weight Module: 12.5 tons, with MLRS hull 27 tons
Crew 2 men
Main gun 155-mm
Barrel length 52 calibers
Maximum firing range 40-60 km
Maximum rate of fire 6 rpm
Elevation range 0 to + 70 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Main gun 30 rounds

-----------------------------------------------------

My suggestion to PA is to phase out this M110 artillery because the fu-king thing is heavy, needs 8 people to operate, range is less, heavier munition and rate of fire is also only 2 rpm. Why is PA using the world's most inefficient gun ??? LFG can also fire 18km and its rate of fire is also more, needs less number of crew, light munition, light in weight and so can be transported at a speed of 250km/hr via a heavy lift helicopter at any location where a vehicle might not reach.

Well the new ones we have is the Turkish MKEK Panter:

Caliber 155 mm 52 calibre
Breech Semi-automatic Interrupted screw with electronic rammer
Carriage 6 wheeled split trail
Elevation -3 Degrees/+65 Degrees
Traverse 20° left or right from centerline
Rate of fire 6 rounds/min NORMAL, 3 rounds in 15 sec IMPACT, 2 rounds/min CONTINIOUS
Effective range 18 km (M107), 30 km (M549A1(RAP)), 40 km (ERFB/Base Bleed)
Maximum range 40 km (with ERFB/BB round)
Feed system hydraulically powered flick rammer assisted loading
Engine DEUTZ air-cooled diesel
160 hp
Speed 20 km/h (On Asphalt Road) , 80 km/h (Towed)

But the problem is we only have 30 of these.

 

[sudhir007]

Well the new ones we have is the Turkish MKEK Panter:

But the problem is we only have 30 of these.

Atleast you have

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Pakistani artillery is ahead of india's,that's a sad truth.Our only consolation is a lethal MBRL force.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Atleast you have

What India has around 400 Bofors...

But the problem is we only have 30 of these.

What are you talking about ??? PA is ahead of India in the artillery if you exclude Brahmos. There must be other platform that PA has in 155mm category.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well the new ones we have is the Turkish MKEK Panter:

But the problem is we only have 30 of these.

That was the initial number ... Now they are being manufactured by HIT:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/7194-155mm-panter-howitzer.html

Im sure we have alot of em by now.

 

[kaykay]

What India has around 400 Bofors...


What are you talking about ??? PA is ahead of India in the artillery if you exclude Brahmos. There must be other platform that PA has in 155mm category.

but how many bofors are operational?....i doubt if atleast 150 are operational.....i might be wrong though...

 

[Edevelop]

What India has around 400 Bofors...


What are you talking about ??? PA is ahead of India in the artillery if you exclude Brahmos. There must be other platform that PA has in 155mm category.

The other one is the American M198 155mm howitzer
And this i believe we have around 348 according to Wikipedia

 

[illusion8]

If all media reports are correct... seems Indian army is in big crunch when it comes to howitzers. Govt should take immediate steps to solve this issue.

25 years with not a single piece of artillery bought, so no wonder.

 

[Edevelop]

25 years with not a single piece of artillery bought, so no wonder.

I thought DRDO is making one?

 

[Indian009]

I thought DRDO is making one?

DRDO is making one
OFB is making one from Bofors TOT
Privet partnerships are making few

But IA is yet to get one ...... Only God knows why

 

[angeldemon_007]

but how many bofors are operational?....i doubt if atleast 150 are operational.....i might be wrong though...

Not all 400 are operational but number is 300+....Not to mention DRDO/OFB are upgrading India's 140 M-46 guns to 155mm. Another 220 kits will be ordered soon to upgrade 220 M-46 to 155mm. After this i think IA will upgrade all the M-46 to 155mm till they will be replaced by newer guns.

But the fact is Indian artillery modernization program is the biggest failure of Ministry of Defence as well as Indian army. I mean for god sakes for almost 2 decades this program is hanging and IA couldn't do anything ?? By now atleast one of the General should have put their foot down. Government can force army only to a certain extent but after that its dangerous. Sometimes i feel a military coup is necessary for India.

 

[Abingdonboy]

India needs atleast another 1000+ 155mm arty units including 150+ 155mm M-777 ULHs.