Army vows all-out support to govt for economic stability

[truthseeker2010]

It is a vicious cycle in Pakistan: The military never allowed the civilians to be competent politicians and yet the military yielded, at least partially, power to the civilians, only to see the corrupt, inapt politicians ruining the country to the point of the military intervening again.

I strongly believe the Pakistani military, at least since Zia's death in 1988, wants to disengage from the internal politics of Pakistan. But time and again they were forced to--and they were NOT forced to intervene because the military's rather posh lifestyle was under threat--that was never the case. But when idiots like Nawaz Sharif wants to fight every military chief and declare himself 'Amir ul Momimoon' and when idiots Imran Khan wants absolute power for long term through co-opting his sympathizers in the military and when idiots like the Zardaris who just refuse to do even basic 'governance', then the country gets to a situation like we are seeing now and the military becomes openly involved, short of an outright Martial Law.

This recent declaration by the Army Chief is a strong signal for a very-guided 'hybrid' model of democracy, with the aim to bring Pakistan's economy on track again. The military is the real power in Pakistan and so foreign backers/well-wishers would pay more attention to Pakistan because they would know they would be dealing with the real-power in Pakistan going forward into at least next few years.

There is no more hypocrite than khaki creatures.

 

[Dalit]

foresight

PDM is begging the Americans to intervene and force the IMF to provide Pakistan a loan. This is extremely delicious to watch.

 

[Clutch]

I will be surprised if Pakistan can even reach $600 billion by 2035 given the current mess they are in.

I would be surprised if there even is a Pakistan by 2035.

 

[ziaulislam]

• ‘Economic Revival Plan’ unveiled to deal with economic challenges.
• Economy being steered towards growth with “bold decisions”: PM.
• Establishment of SIFC aims to act as one window for investors.

ISLAMABAD: Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Asim Munir has assured the Pakistan Army’s all-out support to complement the government’s efforts to deal with the economic challenges facing the country.

The army chief made these remarks during a high-level meeting chaired by Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif in Islamabad on Tuesday.

The huddle unveiled an elaborated ‘Economic Revival Plan’ in the wake of economic hardships being confronted by the country, an official statement issued by the PM Office said.

The COAS, while speaking on the occasion, assured the army’s all-out support to complement the government’s efforts for Economic Revival Plan, considered fundamental to the socio-economic prosperity of Pakistanis and reclaiming the country’s rightful stature among the comity of nations, the communique quoted the army chief as saying.


PM Shehbaz recalled that his government inherited an economy which was on the brink of collapse. With bold and difficult decisions, it is now being steered towards growth and development, he said.

“There are, however, massive challenges ahead. Export-oriented FDIs hold the key to economic revival. The government has, therefore decided to adopt a holistic/whole-of-government approach which fosters partnerships within the federal and provincial governments for effective implementation and execution,” the premier was quoted as saying in the meeting.

The investors would be given primacy and fast-track approvals, through a well-coordinated approach, he added.

The premier also observed that the expected investments would create jobs and livelihoods for the youth and women. "The focus should be on empowering young and females to realise their full potential."

He added: “Let us resolve to work together, leave no stone unturned and be single-minded in our focus and direction.”

We can transform the destiny of Pakistan and its people. It would, however, not happen without hard work and staying the course on the path of progress and development, he added.

“Pakistan and Pakistanis deserve nothing less from those who have been bestowed the responsibility to administer the country by Almighty Allah and the people of Pakistan,” PM Shehbaz said.

The plan envisages capitalising Pakistan’s untapped potential in key sectors of defence production, agricultural/livestock, minerals/mining, IT and energy, through indigenous development as well as investments from friendly countries.

To fast-track the development of projects, the establishment of Special Investment Facilitation Council (SIFC) has been undertaken to act as a ‘Single Window’ interface for the potential investors as well as to adopt a unified approach, according to the official statement.

The setup will shorten hitherto for cumbersome and lengthy business processes through a cooperative and collaborative ‘whole of the government approach’ with the representation of all stakeholders.

It is aimed at creating horizontal-vertical synergy between federation and provinces; facilitating timely decision-making; avoiding duplication of effort; and ensuring swift project implementation.

The high-ranking participation from federal and provincial governments clearly manifests the national resolve to turn around the economy despite all odds.

Army vows all-out support to govt for economic stability

‘Economic Revival Plan’ unveiled to deal with economic challenges.Economy being steered towards growth with “bold decisions”: PM.Establishment of SIFC aims to act as one window for investors.

www.geo.tv

I am sold. But I don't want to be picked up so I am no going to invest in Pakistan

Give me assurance that I won't be abducted and my balls electrocuted like in somalia

 

[Mav3rick]

Try listing the "most capable western weapons systems" down and prove to me how and why they are the most capable in western arsenals. The tens of billions aren't necessarily cash. Much of it is old hardware that was more expensive to scrap.

The US has provided much more to Pakistan throughout decades which was in several wars. Intel through Soviet occupation, F-86, tanks, F-16, F-104, OHP frigates, military training, AIM-120C, etc, you name it. It's just that you seem to have forgotten. Tell me which BVR capable aircraft has the US provided to Ukraine that allowed it to take back Kharkhiv or Kherson?

SAM systems, ATGM Systems, UAV/Drone systems, Electronic Warfare Systems, Artillary, Radars, SatNav Intel etc., the list is just massive and can be found here

List of military aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War​

And it does not stop there, it all keeps coming, the spares, the armament and replacements, trainers and sharing of information/intelligence etc. There is no end to all this.

Compared to Pakistan's wars with India, the only edge we ever had was the F-16's which haven't seen any war! And they too were outranged by IAF BVR equipped Fighters during Kargil conflict. AIM-120-C came after 2006!! Not just that, the moment Pakistan/India conflicts initiated, the US placed sanctions on Pakistan thereby depriving Pakistan of vital replacements/repairs and replenishment of armaments etc., Infact, it is thanks to the limited equipment that was indeed provided by the US that Pakistan was atleast able to defend it's borders to a large extent which otherwise would have been run over by the much larger and much more equipped Indian Military!

 

[IceCold]

I will be surprised if Pakistan can even reach $600 billion by 2035 given the current mess they are in.

I"ll be surprised if their is a Pakistan by then considering where the junta has brought us too.

 

[HerbertPervert]

SAM systems, ATGM Systems, UAV/Drone systems, Electronic Warfare Systems, Artillary, Radars, SatNav Intel etc., the list is just massive and can be found here

List of military aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War​

And it does not stop there, it all keeps coming, the spares, the armament and replacements, trainers and sharing of information/intelligence etc. There is no end to all this.

Compared to Pakistan's wars with India, the only edge we ever had was the F-16's which haven't seen any war! And they too were outranged by IAF BVR equipped Fighters during Kargil conflict. AIM-120-C came after 2006!! Not just that, the moment Pakistan/India conflicts initiated, the US placed sanctions on Pakistan thereby depriving Pakistan of vital replacements/repairs and replenishment of armaments etc., Infact, it is thanks to the limited equipment that was indeed provided by the US that Pakistan was atleast able to defend it's borders to a large extent which otherwise would have been run over by the much larger and much more equipped Indian Military!

You are not listing them down and explaining, an admission that these are not the most capable weapons at their disposal? What about timing? What Ukraine is getting now is different from what it had a year ago.

We are discussing US weapons support to Pakistan throughout decades, not just sanctioned periods like Kargil. As for intel, who trained ISI for Soviet-Afghan operations? What about the training Pakistan received from the US throughout DECADES, to operate aircraft like F-86, F-104, F-16 or ships, tanks, infantry tactics, COIN tactics? What about US hardware & training received during WoT?

What Pakistan did not receive from the US, it was able to obtain an equivalent from China and elsewhere. This combination of western and eastern weapons form a full fledged conventional military, that fights conventionally in all domains. Ukraine doesn't have that. They are literally using unmanned marine vehicles to asymmetrically fight the Russian navy.

ATGM like Javelin or NLAW, HIMARS, small drones, a few armored vehicles, and artillery guns are basically what Ukraine had at their disposal when taking back Kharkhiv and Kherson. Hardly the most capable or advanced in western arsenals. Did Pakistan have or has comparable equivalents? YES!

Does Ukraine have US Radars (TPS-77) like Pakistan? NO. Does it have as much EW equipment as does Pakistan? Probably not.

Did Ukraine have any aircraft that it used BVR during these offensives? NO. Did UkrAF have superior aircraft to RuAF? NO. Did PAF have BVR capability during February 2019? YES. Did PAF have superior aircraft in 1965 war? YES.

The heavy weapons like Leopards, Bradley's, Challenger are only starting to come online now and had no role in recapturing Kharkhiv or Kherson. SAMs like Patriot, SAMP-T, IRIS-T, NASAMS were coming online after Kharkhiv was liberated and are mostly there to defend cities from missile attacks instead of protecting Ukrainian infantry and armor columns during offensives as we can clearly see now with Ka-52 destroying Leopards.

If you want an excuse for incompetence or failure, you will always find one. This is the nature of this country. You can bet Pakistanis will always have an excuse ready for all their failures whether it's in governance, economics, education, military. Really it's just to mask their incompetence and laziness.

 

[Jf Thunder]

the same people responsible for this mess !!!

 

[Mav3rick]

You are not listing them down and explaining, an admission that these are not the most capable weapons at their disposal? What about timing? What Ukraine is getting now is different from what it had a year ago.

We are discussing US weapons support to Pakistan throughout decades, not just sanctioned periods like Kargil. As for intel, who trained ISI for Soviet-Afghan operations? What about the training Pakistan received from the US throughout DECADES, to operate aircraft like F-86, F-104, F-16 or ships, tanks, infantry tactics, COIN tactics? What about US hardware & training received during WoT?

What Pakistan did not receive from the US, it was able to obtain an equivalent from China and elsewhere. This combination of western and eastern weapons form a full fledged conventional military, that fights conventionally in all domains. Ukraine doesn't have that. They are literally using unmanned marine vehicles to asymmetrically fight the Russian navy.

ATGM like Javelin or NLAW, HIMARS, small drones, a few armored vehicles, and artillery guns are basically what Ukraine had at their disposal when taking back Kharkhiv and Kherson. Hardly the most capable or advanced in western arsenals. Did Pakistan have or has comparable equivalents? YES!

Does Ukraine have US Radars (TPS-77) like Pakistan? NO. Does it have as much EW equipment as does Pakistan? Probably not.

Did Ukraine have any aircraft that it used BVR during these offensives? NO. Did UkrAF have superior aircraft to RuAF? NO. Did PAF have BVR capability during February 2019? YES. Did PAF have superior aircraft in 1965 war? YES.

The heavy weapons like Leopards, Bradley's, Challenger are only starting to come online now and had no role in recapturing Kharkhiv or Kherson. SAMs like Patriot, SAMP-T, IRIS-T, NASAMS were coming online after Kharkhiv was liberated and are mostly there to defend cities from missile attacks instead of protecting Ukrainian infantry and armor columns during offensives as we can clearly see now with Ka-52 destroying Leopards.

If you want an excuse for incompetence or failure, you will always find one. This is the nature of this country. You can bet Pakistanis will always have an excuse ready for all their failures whether it's in governance, economics, education, military. Really it's just to mask their incompetence and laziness.

Did you even bother to go to the link and read the list of items? The most capable Jet that the US has provided to all her allies is the F-35 series and yet the US still has the far superior F-22 so yes the US would still have far superior systems in her own arsenal but it is not holding back when provided state of the art weapons systems to the Ukrainian Military. Infact, the US is providing Ukraine with many of the systems that the US forces would use themselves if the US went to war today.

Pakistan first fought India in 1965 and then in 1971......can you identify which weapon system was available with Pakistan for decades at that time which was far superior to the IAF weapons? And aren't you being ridiculous when comparing the Ukraine/Russia war with Pakistan/India war when Ukraine (the smaller country) is actually defending and requires far less manpower whereas in our case, in both instances, we were the aggressors and thus needed far superior forces, both in numbers and quality, to overwhelm the enemy.


You want to place unfounded allegations on Pakistan, you may do so and they don't really matter. The only blame that lies with the military is that they failed to calculate their adversary before both attempts.

 

[FuturePAF]

They’re projecting a growth rate of 10% per annum to reach a GDP of $1 trillion by 2035.

For now the economy is shrinking. It went down from a peak of $383 billion to $325 billion because of the fall in the rupee. Factories are shutting down and jobs are being lost.

As the rupee goes down, the GDP in dollars will be shrinking further.

They need a stable 9% growth year on year for the next 12 years to achieve this if we assume it’s still around $350 Billion. How do they plan to accomplish it? Agricultural modernization, and IT exports can only get so far. Local Solar panels production and EV hybrid vehicles production powered by solar can help speed it up futher.

But ultimately, Pakistan needs to have china integrate it into the Chinese supply chains (in areas like computer part production, pharmaceuticals, aerospace, scientific instruments and electrical machinery)

ASAP if there is any hope this can actually be accomplished. If that is done, 9-10% growth year on year for over a decade is possible, and it will allow Pakistan to growth at 7-8% for decades to come afterwards, because there is a lot to catch-up in.

Pakistan also needs to spend on R&D on applying the best Chinese tech to Pakistani needs, such as in agriculture.

Local production will also help keep inflation under control and that is key to raising GDP per capita.

 

[Communism]

They need a stable 9% growth year on year for the next 12 years to achieve this if we assume it’s still around $350 Billion. How do they plan to accomplish it? Agricultural modernization, and IT exports can only get so far. Local Solar panels production and EV hybrid vehicles production powered by solar can help speed it up futher.

But ultimately, Pakistan needs to have china integrate it into the Chinese supply chains ASAP if there is any hope this can actually be accomplished. If that is done, 9-10% growth year on year for over a decade is possible, and it will allow Pakistan to growth at 7-8% for decades to come afterwards.

There is absolutely no economic reason for solar panels to be created outside China.


There's a reason why the U.S. has a 250%+ tariff on Chinese solar panels.


As of 2017, the U.S. has subsidized solar to the tune of ~168 billion dollars, not accounting for inflation.

Executive summary – Solar PV Global Supply Chains – Analysis - IEA

Solar PV Global Supply Chains - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.

www.iea.org

Just forget about the flashy stuff.


If you see something where almost all of it is created in China, don't even try to compete in that category.


You cannot.


This includes EVs.


Target something made by some other country.


It will be much easier.

 

[FuturePAF]

There is absolutely no economic reason for solar panels to be created outside China.


There's a reason why the U.S. has a 250%+ tariff on Chinese solar panels.


As of 2017, the U.S. has subsidized solar to the tune of ~168 billion dollars, not accounting for inflation.


Just forget about the flashy stuff.


If you see something where almost all of it is created in China, don't even try to compete in that category.


You cannot.


This includes EVs.


Target something made by some other country.


It will be much easier.

That is why I said supply chain integration.
Solar panels made by a joint venture/ToT in Gwadar, for example, could benefit from the supply of the near by raw materials and lower cost Pakistani labor, compared to Chinese workers. It could be shipped directly to the Middle East and Africa from Gwadar.

Creating a line of solar farms from Gwadar to Quetta could create the cheapest solar power, so it would be us leveraging our market size and demand to go big.

If the demand is there it could help build the demand to rebuild steel mills in Karachi or Gwadar using Thar coal.

Solar panel production along with extracting the reko-diq gold and copper would incentive building a rail line across from Karachi and up to Reko-diq (which would connect to Iran and Quetta). These new rail lines would make transporting raw materials to be processed at Gwadar cheaper.

It would also boost the mining industry in Pakistan and Afghanistan, so it’s a good way to build interdependence with the Afghans as well.

 

[Communism]

That is why I said supply chain integration.
Solar panels made by a joint venture/ToT in Gwadar, for example, could benefit from the supply of the near by raw materials and lower cost Pakistani labor, compared to Chinese workers. It could be shipped directly to the Middle East and Africa from Gwadar.

Creating a line of solar farms from Gwadar to Quetta could create the cheapest solar power, so it would be us leveraging our market size and demand to go big.

If the demand is there it could help build the demand to rebuild steel mills in Karachi or Gwadar using Thar coal.

Solar panel production along with extracting the reko-diq gold and copper would incentive building a rail line across from Karachi and up to Reko-diq (which would connect to Iran and Quetta). These new rail lines would make transporting raw materials to be processed at Gwadar cheaper.

It would also boost the mining industry in Pakistan and Afghanistan, so it’s a good way to build interdependence with the Afghans as well.

View attachment 938044

Labor is a very small portion of the cost of a solar panel.


In every single other cost, it is physically impossible to beat China in.


The largest labor cost for solar panels is in installation.


This is why Chinese solar panels are best leveraged by low labor cost countries the most efficiently.


What Pakistan should be focusing on are things where either scarce comparative advantage works in it's favor (like agriculture), or where low to moderate skill labor is a large portion of the cost (a very long list of things).


Most of those things you will see in industries where a majority is not located in China.

 

[FuturePAF]

Labor is a very small portion of the cost of a solar panel.


In every single other cost, it is physically impossible to beat China in.


The largest labor cost for solar panels is in installation.


This is why Chinese solar panels are best leveraged by low labor cost countries the most efficiently.

If a Chinese company set up a plant in Pakistan, how much more would the costs be?

Let’s assume labor isn’t a major factor, but making them locally cuts down on some costs in transportation. Sourcing from local or nearby mines and steel mills should also make costs comparable.

At the very least it is a key technology that if Pakistan can at least make at comparable coast in house, it is more likely it will be adopted and speed up other sectors in which productivity will go up (such as agriculture) and allow Pakistanis to buy more Chinese-Pakistani joint venture products.

Visualizing China’s Dominance in the Solar Panel Supply Chain

The supply chain is key for the renewable energy revolution, and this chart visualizes where the world's solar panels are manufactured.

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[Communism]

If a Chinese company set up a plant in Pakistan, how much more would the costs be?

Let’s assume labor isn’t a major factor, but making them locally cuts down on some costs in transportation. Sourcing from local or nearby mines and steel mills should also make costs comparable.

At the very least it is a key technology that if Pakistan can at least make at comparable coast in house, it is more likely it will be adopted and speed up other sectors in which productivity will go up (such as agriculture) and allow Pakistanis to buy more Chinese-Pakistani joint venture products.

It's the same reason why Chinese cars made in China are cheaper than Chinese cars made in every other country.


Almost all cars on earth use Chinese parts.


Almost all cars on earth have far worse economics than Chinese cars.


To give you a small hint as to how bad of an idea making solar panels outside China is, I'll give you an industry source on the price of Polysilicon in China vs the Price of Polysilicon outside China.

Daily Polysilicon price, Lme Comex Shfe Price of Polysilicon live | SMM - Metal Market

SMM brings you LME, SHFE, COMEX real-time Polysilicon prices and historical Polysilicon price charts

www.metal.com

And that's before we add in transportation cost.


Aka, those estimates I linked before are actually way too optimistic as it is, as they presume that the cost of materials is the same for Chinese and non-Chinese production.