Army to seek 20 SuperCobra helicopters from US

[Luftwaffe]

A unit cost of supercobra at rollout cost in 2000 was 11.5 million dollars although if Pakistan is set to get it by 2015 i would argue it won't the same as with the US forces... yet if we set the cost at 15 Million dollars that is too costly with no TOT although a mature platform and best suited for Pakistan yet again we need some sort of TOT if US would give us that if not i would say Turkey is our best option.
15x20=300 million dollars even if you double the 300 million you get $600M million so i am not sure why would it cost 1 billion dollars for 20 super cobras? why not join Turkish gunship program.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

A unit cost of supercobra at rollout cost in 2000 was 11.5 million dollars although if Pakistan is set to get it by 2015 i would argue it won't the same as with the US forces... yet if we set the cost at 15 Million dollars that is too costly with no TOT although a mature platform and best suited for Pakistan yet again we need some sort of TOT if US would give us that if not i would say Turkey is our best option.
15x20=300 million dollars even if you double the 300 million you get $600M million so i am not sure why would it cost 1 billion dollars for 20 super cobras? why not join Turkish gunship program.

Do u even know AH-64D costs 60++ million dollars..
AH-1z will be USMC work horse for the next decade so i wont under estimate this chopper. 25 million dollars a unit is best bang for the buck... i am sure PA intends to buy this chopper with spares training and armaments so that the fleet can last beyond a decade even under a sanctions... so in that sense 500-800 million dollars is a sense able price.... i dough the billion dollar figure is right..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

wow man... if this deal goes through then PA will have one mean mini attack chopper combo fleet!

PA already operates something like 20 Bell 412 and just like the USMC program to upgrade UH-1N to UH-1Y standard PA could end up with a really kick @ss AH-1Z upgraded Bell 412 to UH-1Y standard...

 

[Cheetah786]

A proud nation like Pakistan should never say something as cheap like that.
I am sure that your attitude is that of a minority. Real men dont feel thrilled to take 'Khairat'( I hope that I got my urdu right).

Israel gets all there money from usa and europe plus there equipment then they turn around and sell it to you.

Now as i said it Before Who is the smart one here you or israel (yeah yeah you will claim they make there own bla bla bla)

And i no i am going off topic but i am sick and tired of indians crying.

Why are we giving India £1 billion in aid if it can afford Moon missions?

May we have our money back, please? Specifically, the £1 billion we donate in aid to India, a country rich enough to enter the space race. What on earth are we doing, pouring UK taxpayers’ money into the maw of a nation that can afford to send rockets to the Moon?

Last January, Gordon Brown announced a new aid package to India totalling £825 million over three years.

In May, Denis MacShane, former Europe Minister, asked why British aid to India, a country with more billionaires and millionaires than Britain and an economy 50 per cent larger, amounted to £1 billion. The official line is that poverty is rife in India. Yes; and it is likely to remain so, as long as the Indian government indulges in a space programme while millions of its underclass sleep in the streets.
India pleads that this week’s unmanned mission to the Moon “only” cost around £50 million. Very well, we should only have donated £950 million, if the government can afford to spend that kind of money. In fact, the Indian space programme has been running since 1980; a further Moon mission is planned for 2011 and manned flights after that. As the spokesman for ISRO, the Indian space agency, disarmingly admitted of the projected expenditure: “Even with our low costs it will be billions of dollars.”

So, the deal is, recession-hit British taxpayers struggle to alleviate the plight of India’s starving population, while its rulers play space cadets. And those politicians come from the “progressive”, anti-colonialist culture that affects to abhor past extravagances such as maharajahs being weighed in diamonds.

India is engaging in a space race with China that could turn into something nastier, its eventual objective being to corner supplies of helium 3 by claiming tracts of the Moon’s surface, like terrestrial colonisers centuries ago. It goes without saying there will also be a military dimension to the project. Probably more reprehensible than the financial cost to date is the ISRO’s monopolising of 1,000 scientists who could be engaged on work of more service to humanity.

Why are we giving India £1 billion in aid if it can afford Moon missions? – Telegraph Blogs

Now back To the Topic If you are real man you will go ahead and do what real man do after getting Aid.

 

[Cheetah786]

dont preach them....they are the best people in the world....best diplomacy which can ever be seen...
one day they say "we dont want khairat" and next day "f you are paying for it and we Get it for free".
keep it up....

yet you continue to receive KHAIRAT and deny it on daily basis yet tell others what to DO.

 

[Quwa]

From what I understood, the report says that Pakistan could receive a number of AH-1W from the USMC as an interim until the AH-1Z. H Khan on PakDef and DefenseNews said the U.S. offered 12-14 AH-1W to the Pakistan Army. If Pakistan were to finalize an order for AH-1Z, then I assume it'll exercise the USMC option as a "bridge-in" to the new-built Cobras. Although it is just 20 AH-1Z & 14 AH-1W, the Super Cobra and 'Viper' both offer an exponential increase in capabilities for the PA compared to the AH-1F/S. Furthermore, it is likely the PA would order additional AH-1Z.

In addition, the PA may seek UH-60 for use by SOTF and SSG, and perhaps additional Bell-412 as a supplementary utility-type. There has also been a lot of talk about heavy-lift capabilities through the CH-47 Chinook. Ideally speaking, if the Army, Navy, Air Force, Frontier Corps, Rangers, Police, Medical, etc, synchronize on a standard helicopter and set a total requirement of 150+ helicopters, then a company such as AgustaWestland will be glad to transfer a production line of AW149 to Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

i will say again "go indigenous" in Combat helicopters , Turkey must help Pakistan in Production of T129 ATAK by providing TOT.

It may take some time but i reckon it will worth it . A bird in a Hand is better than 9 in the Bush they say , Honeymoon period with United state Buddies can be over anytime when they will get their hell out of us .

They are not reliable suppliers PA must learn from PAF's experience with F-16 Chaos and the so called " Lost decade " and when we were left vulnerable to much superior Polar bears and Indians .... Learn from Iranian Tomcats ( i am not comparing Pakistan's Relations with U.S as of Iran's but just giving the Track record of US)

But if Yankees provide us TOT for super cobra than the offer must be considered which is more like a cat's dream .

Regards: My choice stands still T-129 ATAK Made in PAC!!!

 

[jamal18]

Don't buy them.

Open a bunch of schools instead. How many primary schools would that be?

 

[illuminatus]

Don't buy them.

Open a bunch of schools instead. How many primary schools would that be?

Who will guarantee security of the nation? We need some attack helos for the ongoing operations.

 

[S-2]

"That is all fine but why are you holding back and not giving us your opinion?"

Attack aviation requirements for Pakistan isn't an area of expertise for myself. Further, Mark's commentary has been superb in detailing what America might be able to provide, the numbers, and the time-frames involved. Little that I'd wish to add from that respect.

I come from a generation of American army fire support officers, however, who had great respect for the AH-1S that were flying then for us. They, along with the A-10, were a big part of our planned anti-armor strike packages in northern Europe had the balloon gone up.

Too, that the USMC still find COBRA variants useful to their integrated air-ground combat teams suggests that this wonderful bird hasn't seen the end of its useful life from America's perspective.

I'll be saddened when its day finally comes, like the B-52 Stratofortress, F-4 Phantom and perhaps even the A-10 Thunderbolt (Warthogs to us).

For American warriors (even non-pilots) those aircraft are nearly iconic-particularly the COBRA.

 

[Quwa]

Don't buy them.

Open a bunch of schools instead. How many primary schools would that be?

The focus isn't and shouldn't be on mindless defence cuts, but rather a greater emphasis on transparency, accountability, taxation and reform.

It is essentially these sort of programs the U.S. is looking to fund in Pakistan in the form of 'social and economic development aid'. I spoke to a professor who is involved in this sort of stuff, and he said that the U.S. isn't just dumping cash now. Instead, it is looking through some of the long-term strategic policy plans set up by the younger generation of Pakistani thinkers, and has begun investing in their implementation. Ideas such as land-taxation & reform, bureaucratic reform, austerity measures, etc, were all met with interest by the Americans, and the cash nececessary to apply them have been released.

The goal is to have Pakistan generate its own funding, and to then spend it on universal education and health care, social security, infrastructure and defence. U.S. assistance will be there to solidify the foundations, and this can only be guaranteed if the Pakistanis on the ground work hard to see it through to the end. In 'static' terms, the U.S. knows Pakistan has immense potential, now the goal is to cultivate it so that Pakistan becomes another powerful ally (like Japan & South Korea), as opposed to another potential challenger.

 

[Awesome]

It's pretty ridiculous how some trolls are bobbing their heads up n down and basically saying "But US and Pakistan are supposed to be enemies". Nobody in Pakistan has desired to make the US an enemy. There are some issues we disagree with, while others we don't.

Nothing is "FREE". We'd probably be using these weapons against the US's enemies as well or since its delivery is in 2015 then we'd be using our own weapons to help them, till we get paid in Super Cobras.

Now get on topic or butt out of this discussion.

 

[Quwa]

As usual, some people have steered a decent discussion into a meaningless and shallow argument.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Hope no trolling is seen again.

Indian members, if you guys don't have anything positive to add, then plz don't troll and make the thread into another India-Pakistan competition. Stick to your own threads then.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Atleast PA can fire world most lethal HELLFIRE...carry double the load of existing cobra.

As far as China and Turkey, production will take atleast 5 years or more.. Plus both Helos need engine from foreign exporters.

The Turkish T-129 will have an engine that will be domestically produced in Turkey & turkey will have right to sell T-129 with full ToT

On 22 June 2008, the agreement between TUSAS Aerospace Industries and AgustaWestland formally entered into force. It has now been confirmed that the T129 will be a 100% Turkish built platform. Under the agreement, TAI will develop an indigenous mission computer, avionics, weapons systems, self-protection suites and the helmet-mounting cuing systems. TUSAS Engine Industries Inc (TEI) will manufacture the LHTEC CTS800-4N engines under licence. Under the agreement, Turkey has full marketing and intellectual property rights for the T129 platform. There are also no restrictions imposed on Turkey for the export or transfer of the platform to third countries

The ATAK Helicopter Program first started in October 1996, with the aim of providing the Turkish Land Forces Command with 51 firm and 41 optional Attack/Tactical Reconnaissance helicopters, was cancelled by the Undersecretariat for Defence Industries Executive Committee decision dated 14 May 2004. The ATAK Helicopter Program aims to provide the Turkish Land Forces Command with an Attack/Tactical Reconnaissance helicopter that will be; customized according to user needs, produced and provided with integrated logistics support.

The Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSM) published a new Request for Proposal (RFP) on 10 February 2005 and re-opened bidding for the ATAK Helicopter Program. AgustaWestland, Eurocopter, KAMOV and Denel submitted bids in response to the new RFP. The Undersecretariat for Defence Industries Executive Committee announced AgustaWestland as the winning bidder after its meeting on 30 March 2007. Subsequently TAI, SSM, ASELSAN and AgustaWestland stared contract negotiations. The negotiations were finalized on 27 August 2007 and the contract was signed on 7 September 2007.

In the ATAK Helicopter Program, TAI will be the prime contractor, with AgustaWestland and ASELSAN being TAI’s subcontractors. As part of the ATAK Helicopter Program the following agreements were signed:

• TAI-SSM Prime Contract

• TAI-AgustaWestland Major Subcontract Agreement

• TAI-AgustaWestland Collaboration Agreement

• TAI-ASELSAN Subcontract Agreement

As Prime Contractor of the ATAK Program, TAI has work share in the following areas:

• Program and Contract Management

• System Integration

• Production

• Engineering

• Integrated Logistics Support

In collaboration with AgustaWestland, TAI will define the operational and functional requirements specifications of the ATAK Helicopter. As part of this, TAI will be responsible for managing ASELSAN’s workshare, which includes designing the hardware and software (including software integration) of the ATAK Mission Computer and procurement of all mission systems, including weapon systems. TAI is also responsible for harmonizing the program as a whole and managing the agreements reached with its subcontractors.

As part of its System Integration activities, TAI will perform the following activities to form the T-129 ATAK Helicopter configuration based on the existing A-129 CBT Helicopter:

• Integrating the Mission Equipment Package (Avionics and Weapons) on the helicopter to satisfy the System Performance Specifications,

• Achieving the design and production activities required for integrating the software and hardware of the Mission Equipment Package,

• Completing the following Test and Qualification activities aimed at achieving the T-129 ATAK Helicopter configuration:

• Functional Acceptance Tests

• EMI/EMC Tests

• Ground Tests

• Flight Tests

• T-129 ATAK Helicopter Qualification.

In accordance with the work share agreed upon with AgustaWestland, TAI shall carry out final assembly and flight operations, component and sub-assembly production, detail parts and electrical harness fabrication, tool/fixture design and production for parts included in TAI manufacturing workshare, support and test equipment procurement for parts included in TAI manufacturing Workshare and fabrication and assembly of structural/electrical components unique to the ATAK Helicopter. TAI shall also perform the following activities aimed at creating the T-129 ATAK Helicopter from the AgustaWestland Basic Configuration Helicopter;

• Performance and Flight Mechanics Analyses,

• Structural Modification,

• Airworthiness and Qualification,

• Operational, system/sub system and functional definitions of the ASELSAN designed system,

• Electrical and Group-A Kit Modification,

• SIL Acceptance Tests, ground, flight and EMI/EMC Tests,

TAI shall also commit to the final design and performance of the helicopter to SSM. TAI shall also provide active participation to the engine replacement, Automatic Flight Control System and Air Vehicle Management System modification activities taking place at AgustaWestland facilities.

As prime contractor of the ATAK Program, TAI shall perform the following activities as part of Integrated Logistics Support:

• Prepare the T-129 ATAK Helicopter ILS Data Package by utilizing the ILS Data Package modules (maintenance and pilot handbooks etc.) received from AgustaWestland and ASELSAN,

• Perform Logistics Support Analysis as an extension of TAI design activities,

• Train T-129 ATAK Helicopter Pilot and Maintenance Personnel,

• Manage and coordinate the Warranty, Support Equipment and Spare Parts of the T-129 ATAK and Basic Configuration Helicopters,

• Provide Technical Support through Field Services Representatives based at 4 different TLF bases for a duration of 3 years,

• Conduct Codification activities aimed at obtaining NATO Stock Numbers (NSN) for the components and equipment of the T-129 ATAK and Basic Configuration Helicopters.

The planned duration of the ATAK Program is 114 months from Contract Effectivity with T-129 ATAK Helicopter qualification planned for 58 months and delivery of the first serial production helicopter planned for 60 months after Contract Effectivity. Delivery of the first 7 helicopters to the customer will be once every two months, with the remaining helicopters being delivered once a month, with the last ATAK Helicopter being delivered to the customer at 114 months from Contract Effectivity.

With the Collaboration Agreement signed with AgustaWestland, TAI shall have;

• Intellectual property rights of the new configuration of the helicopter
  
• Sole sourcing rights in the world for the fuselage, including Final Assembly and Flight Operations
  
• Sales rights for the whole world excluding Italy and England

TURKISH AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES INC.

Just like you love Putin and Netanyahu!

Putin Betrayed 'em, RD-93
Its so much fun seeing 'em cry