Army should be looking for a NEW Sub Machine Gun (SMG)

[Fieldmarshal]

@Fieldmarshal, The HK-417 & H&K produces 7.62*51mm chambered rifles, while our requirements are for the 7.62*39mm round.

Both are different, thus if we get anything from H&K like HK-416/417 design, it needs to be re-chambered for 7.62*39mm round.

it is far easier to re chamber a weapon with the same caliber, as all they have to do is reduce the length of the round from 51 to 39. than to change the caliber of the weapon in addition to changing the length of the round.

the best smg ie if we are to go down that road, for PA would be ak 74. it uses a 5.56 round along with the fact that it is battle proven and very reliable and most parts are interchangable with an ak

but it would have been better if PA had gone with H&K 417, as it would have served both as an smg and as an assault rifle.
PA does not have the resources for the extravagance of choosing a weapon for each catagory

 

[Last Hope]

Tamim Khan ur a well informed man so such illogical argument coming from u is unbecoming u.
if is far easier to re chamber a weapon with the same caliber, as all they have to do is reduce the length of the round from 51 to 39. than to change the caliber of the weapon in addition to changing the length of the round.

the best smg for PA would be ak 74. it uses a 5.56 round along with the fact that it is battle proven and very reliable and most parts are interchangable with an ak

We don't need 5.56mm we need 7.62mm as it is stronger. A hit from same distance from 5.56mm would injure a person while hit from 7.62mm would instantly kill the person.

 

[XYON]

The one measured during trials registered at 2.3kg or so!

Another advantage of Vz 58 is it's general compactness. You dont want another Ak with you, but a weapon similar in size to the Mp-5. The bigger version is 2.9 kg or thereabouts, what is the weight of this one?

 

[XYON]

Another advantage of Vz 58 is it's general compactness. You dont want another Ak with you, but a weapon similar in size to the Mp-5. The bigger version is 2.9 kg or thereabouts, what is the weight of this one?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here is the picture of the Sa vz 58 Compact with the Army's MP5A2 that needs to be replaced. The compact is smaller if not the same size. But more lethal due to the 7.62x39mm ammunition.

 

[khanasifm]

1. MP5 was never the SMG for PA, it was Type 56
2. It was issues as personal defense weapon starting with officers Sr JCO etc instead of side arm /pistol
3. I guess over time being manufactured locally it was introduced in large #

4. Need replacement for G3 yes, too old design and system introduced after wwII by Germans
Type 56 / AK , do not know much

5. 7.62 X 39 is basically Russian caliber so anything currently av. will be Soviet Origin or former republics.

The Bottom line replacement of 600K- Million units of G3 (counting Para military) is at the moment out of PAK pocket.


Cheers

 

[valkyr_96]

1. MP5 was never the SMG for PA, it was Type 56
2. It was issues as personal defense weapon starting with officers Sr JCO etc instead of side arm /pistol
3. I guess over time being manufactured locally it was introduced in large #

4. Need replacement for G3 yes, too old design and system introduced after wwII by Germans
Type 56 / AK , do not know much

5. 7.62 X 39 is basically Russian caliber so anything currently av. will be Soviet Origin or former republics.

The Bottom line replacement of 600K- Million units of G3 (counting Para military) is at the moment out of PAK pocket.


Cheers

agreed about the personal defense weapon but the soldiers training for lic conflict started out with mp5 and as the thread says due to the soldiers refusal Type 56 was sought. The training part can be seen in the documentary "we are soldiers".

 

[Jango]

1. MP5 was never the SMG for PA, it was Type 56

You didn't read the posts by XYON did you?

The Type 56's were bought by PA for the FATA ops since the MP-5 was 9mm caliber, and did not have enough firepower. But the Type 56 came with it's own problems, jamming and other problems. So, we had 2 guns to change, and both are being phased out slowly, first MP-5, and then Type 56 also.

 

[Amaa'n]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here is the picture of the Sa vz 58 Compact with the Army's MP5A2 that needs to be replaced. The compact is smaller if not the same size. But more lethal due to the 7.62x39mm ammunition.

Please excuse my noobism since I never fired any rifle but based on my knowledge gathered from internet the size is same as mp5 but round is heavier so more kick and hard to control?

 

[batmannow]

Any one who, has fired 50 bullets with G3 or any kind of AK, he would be a happier guy to hve 58 , in his hands.
I think, recoile of this baby is much, lessr thn the , beasts we hve in hands !

 

[XYON]

I have fired single shots and full auto with the Sa vz 58 Compact. I have also fired the MP-5. The recoil of the Compact is at best less than that of a regular AK-47 firing the 7.62x39mm round. The gun is very comfortable and quick-to-draw due to its small size and lesser weight as compared to your standard AK-47.

Please excuse my noobism since I never fired any rifle but based on my knowledge gathered from internet the size is same as mp5 but round is heavier so more kick and hard to control?

 

[Amaa'n]

I have fired single shots and full auto with the Sa vz 58 Compact. I have also fired the MP-5. The recoil of the Compact is at best less than that of a regular AK-47 firing the 7.62x39mm round. The gun is very comfortable and quick-to-draw due to its small size and lesser weight as compared to your standard AK-47.

thanks for clearing up, hope this time PA does the right job and chooses the wiser and the better option, keep us posted

 

[tanlixiang28776]

perhaps the type 95G in 5.56x 45mm

Its the one in the forefront

 

[XYON]

No Chinese rifle was a part of this selection program & Army is seeking 7.62x39mm caliber and NOT 5.56x45mm in this Sub Machine Gun selection program.

perhaps the type 95G in 5.56x 45mm

Its the one in the forefront

 

[TaimiKhan]

Here is COAS yesterday in Lahore at the small arms firing thingy and he is holding a modified G-3, with picatanny rails on the top of the rifle as well as on the sides, also the muzzle flash suppressor has been changed.

it seems PA is sticking with G3 but in a modified way.

http://ispr.gov.pk/front/image_viewer.asp?o=http://ispr.gov.pk/archive_images/3985.jpg&full_path=1

 

[XYON]

Pakistan Army at this time does not have the funds to change the ASSAULT RIFLE from G-3. We are also in the middle of fighting TTP thugs in Waziristan and change in the G-3 would cause partial chaos amongst the ranks and would affect soldiers confidence to switch to a new gun in the middle of an on-going conflict. Therefore and at almost 1/10th of the cost of a new platform Army has decided to spruce up the G-3 platform with having picatinny rail and other accessories to be installed on it to maximize its accuracy and user-friendliness. I personally do not see the Pakistan Army changing the G-3 for at least the next 10-12 years or so!

Here is COAS yesterday in Lahore at the small arms firing thingy and he is holding a modified G-3, with picatanny rails on the top of the rifle as well as on the sides, also the muzzle flash suppressor has been changed.

it seems PA is sticking with G3 but in a modified way.

http://ispr.gov.pk/front/image_viewer.asp?o=http://ispr.gov.pk/archive_images/3985.jpg&full_path=1