Army needs to stop doing internal operations.

[Fledgingwings]

Pakistan Police is cursed.

 

[El Sidd]

Why is the government risking sleeper cells for glorification of police?

Pakistan is facing asymmetric war and this is unacceptable that a standoff of 17 hours is allowed to happen in a major city.

 

[Cuirassier]

maybe...i can remember late capt junaid shaheed cause he was my brothers PMA course mate. But yes other one was indeed capt naveed shaheed if am not mistaken.

Captain Najam Riaz Raja.

 

[That Guy]

Lack of proper training, proper equipment.... I think. Could be wrong if course

Pakistan has properly trained and equipped police commandos and AT teams. They're just barely given a chance to shine.

 

[Vortex]

Pakistan has properly trained and equipped police commandos and AT teams. They're just barely given a chance to shine.

So I was wrong. It seems then to be a structural failure of us ? We are not able to use what we designed to be used in those circonstances. What could be or are the cause of this?
What goes wrong?

 

[That Guy]

So I was wrong. It seems then to be a structural failure of us ? We are not able to use what we designed to be used in those circonstances. What could be or are the cause of this?
What goes wrong?

It's a lack of trust towards these trained teams. Just look at this thread, so many people consider them incompetent, even though they haven't even had a chance to prove their competence yet. Of course, Pakistani leadership will publicly reflect the wishes of its people, so it too will keep these teams at bay, while letting the army take over these operations.

 

[Vortex]

It's a lack of trust towards these trained teams. Just look at this thread, so many people consider them incompetent, even though they haven't even had a chance to prove their competence yet. Of course, Pakistani leadership will publicly reflect the wishes of its people, so it too will keep these teams at bay, while letting the army take over these operations.

Then couldn’t we mix those forces in a unique body with unique command and thus helping for a better use and deployment in main cities and spread in all the country in a way that they could reach quickly any hot point ?

It will take time to reduce and finally erase the thrust deficit sure.

 

[Signalian]

Was going through what happened at Hayatabad and again got pissed to see that a operation started by Police was pretty much over taken by Army. For GOD sake it's time for Army to back off. Let Police learn let them make mistakes. If some one really do the research on intial counter terror operations done by Army after 2007 they would know the grotesque mistakes made by Army. But Army learnt after each operation. Now it's time to make sure Police Special Forces learn from their mistakes and get better.

Yes but Problem lies are police speical forces capable off ?
Its not just physical presence, but training, equipment, intelligence

And the sword cut both ways if Police takes high damage army will also be blamed that for as well
That even with all the investment and traning why arnt doing it themselves.

If Whole of Pakistani Organisations work under one umbrella and built its capabilities than its something but when all they are busy looting people someone needs to take responsibility. Army have no other option

I have always been against any army using force on any people within its own territory. Its not right. The police should do this.

Do anyone of you remember SSP Peshawar Sajjad khan who when was informed about Agriculture universtory directorate attack in Peshawar in 2017 came in his sleeping dress and took part in operation. KP police reach the spot in 4 minutes. Same happened when terrorists tried to attack judicial complex and police foiled the attack at main gate. Even on APS attack day KP police reacted quickly. Sacrifices of KP police are too many to be even counted. KPPD is not afraid ot taking Terrorists one on one. One should remember that. Now comming to why SSG took part, well they were asked to. Because even after Several hours on exchange Police was unable to clear the building , thats hecause the whole building was secured through IED’s and bombs. The terrorist had heavy Weapons inside building while we all know that police in Pakistan lack firepower. Police have no other option then using AK47. So after several hours of operation and due to the ground situation, SSG was asked to help.

P.s: SSP Peshawar Sajjad Khan
View attachment 553810

Army has more resources and specific strategies to deal with this. You can’t throw in the police at the deep end and expect them to learn on their own. As said before, police is only trained in light combat scenarios. The very same police tackled the agriculture institute attackers, with the army. Problem with today’s situation is that it’s located inside a residential area and quite close quarters. Police can’t reach the level of SWAT/ GIGN for atleast another decade, that too if the government ups their game for making a SWAT type squad with special weapons and tactics(what SWAT means).
As far as learning is concerned, the army learned at a cost of lots of lives and resources. You want the same to sacrificed before the police is ready?

It's a lack of trust towards these trained teams. Just look at this thread, so many people consider them incompetent, even though they haven't even had a chance to prove their competence yet. Of course, Pakistani leadership will publicly reflect the wishes of its people, so it too will keep these teams at bay, while letting the army take over these operations.

Not lack of trust.
Police itself throws it on FC,
FC throws it on Army,
Army throws it on SSG.

Ok that was fun up there. Police got involved because Special Branch and IB were on the job, sniffing around for quite some time. They probably didn't expect what they found ahead. Just a routine investigation, suspect giving clues. Some FIR's, some witnesses, some agents on the ground, assisted this investigation team.

The investigation was not escalated but as the contact was made during operation and findings were shared, the reporting was escalated. The enemy response and tactics were seen familiar during combat, same as the one which Military faced during its Ops. It seemed that something bigger could be apprehended during this contact. Bring them alive if possible for questioning otherwise neutralize with minimum damage to own troops and to public and infrastructure.

let go of the notion that the Police is not trained properly or that Police doesnt have enough resources in firepower or tactics. The nature of operation changed, it wasn't just a CQB Ops, cleaning some room, yes KPK Police can do that. The military was called in because the findings of this Ops and investigation kept getting critical.

I think most of you doubt the system, doubt training standards, doubt decision making at all levels. Give it a rest, those of you living in Pakistan have seen how these incidents have been plummeting in past years. Previously, it was 5 cops/soldiers killed for 5 miscreants, now its 1 shaheed for 5 miscreants killed. To achieve maximum result from this Ops, the best are sent in, the best were SSG. Even countries like Britian, Australia, USA etc have SAS, SASR, SFOD (Delta) for Anti-Terror Ops. PA SSG has raised Zarrar ATU for a purpose.

For once, feel proud that this was not an "accidentally coming across terrorists" Operation neither an Ops where the miscreants had attacked a facility (like military installation, universities, Govt offices, etc), it part of an IBO. Communication and negotiations would have been drawn during those 17 hours. TTP agents were living in a populated area, that is supposed to raise alarm bells. This was not an ordinary finding. The findings will be shared with military and then military might conduct more operations through MI, CMI and ISI.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Not lack of trust.
Police itself throws it on FC,
FC throws it on Army,
Army throws it on SSG.

Ok that was fun up there. Police got involved because Special Branch and IB were on the job, sniffing around for quite some time. They probably didn't expect what they found ahead. Just a routine investigation, suspect giving clues. Some FIR's, some witnesses, some agents on the ground, assisted this investigation team.

The investigation was not escalated but police as the contact was made during operation and findings were shared, the reporting was escalated. The enemy response and tactics were seen familiar during combat, same as the one which Military faced during its Ops. It seemed that something bigger could be apprehended during this contact. Bring them alive if possible for questioning otherwise neutralize with minimum damage to own troops and to public and infrastructure.

let go of the notion that the Police is not trained properly or that Police doesnt have enough resources in firepower or tactics. The nature of operation changed, it wasn't just a CQB Ops, cleaning some room, yes KPK Police can do that. The military was called in because the findings of this Ops and investigation kept getting critical.

I think most of you doubt the system, doubt training standards, doubt decision making at all levels. Give it a rest, those of you living in Pakistan have seen how these incidents have been plummeting in past years. Previously, it was 5 cops/soldiers killed for 5 miscreants, not its 1 shaheed for 5 miscreants killed. To achieve maximum result from this Ops, the best are sent in, the best were SSG. Even countries like Britian, Australia, USA etc have SAS, SASR, SFOD (Delta) for Anti-Terror Ops. PA SSG has raised Zarrar ATU for a purpose.

For once, feel proud that this was not an "accidentally coming across terrorists" Operation neither an Ops where the miscreants had attacked a facility (like military installation, universities, Govt offices, etc), it part of an IBO. Communication and negotiations would have been drawn during those 17 hours. TTP agents were living in a populated area, that is supposed to raise alarm bells. This was not an ordinary finding. The findings will be shared with military and then military might conduct more operations through MI, CMI and ISI.

Very well said. But of course, all Pakistanis on the internet are Defence, foreign, finance and strategic experts. You can’t question them. Otherwise you are wrong. Especially if you have actual experience. And god forbid you’re logically right. No no. If they say it’s wrong it’s wrong.

 

[Vortex]

Very well said. But of course, all Pakistanis on the internet are Defence, foreign, finance and strategic experts. You can’t question them. Otherwise you are wrong. Especially if you have actual experience. And god forbid you’re logically right. No no. If they say it’s wrong it’s wrong.

Bro I’m not talking about other but for myself.

Living far from my country and especially where I can’t get correct information, the little i receive get me to draw partial conclusion. That’s because I don’t have full picture of what happening in my country.

Sometimes I have confidence in Pakistan and sometimes because I’m ill informed and thus tend to lost confidence. Isn’t it human behaviour ? And if I came in this board, isn’t it to engage debate ? I won’t be able to thanks enough to people like @Signalian and others who give us another point of view which help us to be more proud of Pakistan and to be more confident.

Maybe as my English is not good enough to express correctly what I want to say so it could be ill interpreted.

 

[Zarvan]

Those making excuses that terrorists had RPG should know that KPK Police has been dealing and even using RPG for past several years.