Army Chief: I don't believe in extension and will retire on due date

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Now don't twist my words - There is nothing wrong with respect. Infact it is great of Pakistanis to respect their soldiers something we Indians can learn.

All you have been arguing (for the sake of it) is that Gen Raheels popularity is a PR stunt .. And yet you contradict yourself by agreeing that under his command successes against terrorism was achieved ?

Than you argue that he will contest elections in future .. I really don't understand what you are trying to say here?!?!

I said that I think that there has been aggrandizement of Gen Shariff through a PR campaign to portray him and army as the only functional and good thing in Pakistan and to silence any voices of dissent.

PR campaign by who the people of Pakistan? --- the rickshaw walas,shopkeepers and social media users?

What dissent are you talking about? Lmao.?

And it's not false to say that the military is the most functional and solid institution of the Pakistani state.. It's not false..

If such is not the case and Pakistani rank and file have not been cleverly manipulated then all is well.

I have no hesitation to say that I am just speculating.

 

[Spectre]

All you have been arguing (for the sake of it) is that Gen Raheels popularity is a PR stunt .. And yet you contradict yourself by agreeing that under his command successes against terrorism was achieved ?

Than you argue that he will contest elections in future .. I really don't understand what you are trying to say here?!?!






PR campaign by who the people of Pakistan? --- the rickshaw walas,shopkeepers and social media users?

What dissent are you talking about? Lmao.?

And it's not false to say that the military is the most functional and solid institution of the Pakistani state.. It's not false..

You are deliberately being dense. I have clearly stated that it is my belief that most of his popularity is due to PR campaign anyone who voices scepticism about his performance is branded as fifth column.

In addition in earlier post I had suggested that Gen Shariff bought nothing new to the field - his policies were in continuance of the agenda set by his predecessors.

These two things do not contradict.

also if the military is the only functional and solid thing in Pakistan then perhaps it is because they have undermined other institutions.

 

[Tipu7]

@markhoor @Tipu7 @That Guy
What u guys think role of Gen. RAheel Shrif ll be after retirement may it this year or extension. Will he join politics? How good a politician he'd be? Or will he just move to usa/uk give lectures Or he just enjoy retirement in a nice penthouse and cigars like that?!!!

He must avoid politics at any cost.
He must understand that he is treated as a HERO in Pakistan. Any one entering politics in Pakistan become controversial.......

So I hope he will stay away from politics.
What i expect from him is to deliver lectures on geopolitics and defense...... He should visit universities and educational forums in country to deliver lectures. He should also participate in Defense forums and think tanks which address the needs and requirements of variable strategies and set ups in Pakistan with changing time. He can play important role in securing CPEC project and can step in at appropriate time when politicians try to sabotage this project......

it is my belief that most of his popularity is due to PR campaign anyone who voices scepticism about his

Correct your belief. He is popular for his actions, not because of PR stuff.

 

[ice_man]

You are deliberately being dense. I have clearly stated that it is my belief that most of his popularity is due to PR campaign anyone who voices scepticism about his performance is branded as fifth column.

In addition in earlier post I had suggested that Gen Shariff bought nothing new to the field - his policies were in continuance of the agenda set by his predecessors.

These two things do not contradict.

also if the military is the only functional and solid thing in Pakistan then perhaps it is because they have undermined other institutions.

how so? his predecessor just sat back and rome burned and nero played a fiddle.

the drone strikes increased daily bombings increased. he got an extension and did nothing worthy of mention.

so Gen Raheel brought something new to the field something clear a clear approach to terrorism and how to counter it.

while the politicians lacked clarity about TTP and terrorism.

 

[Tipu7]

In addition in earlier post I had suggested that Gen Shariff bought nothing new to the field - his policies were in continuance of the agenda set by his predecessors

And what make you think that....?
If he didn't introduce any thing new to field then how he achieved such good results in his job and popularity in Politics, in military and in social set up?

also if the military is the only functional and solid thing in Pakistan then perhaps it is because they have undermined other institutions

Again wrong.
When one institute work fine and other don't then it doesn't mean that first institute is responsible for short comes of second institute.....

General Raheel is the first COAS staff to challenge the enemy on both fronts.
He fought against Extremism as well as those who take advantage of it.

First chief to keep real enemy in "OKAAT" was him.......
I remember the times of G Kayani when even taking name of India on their sponsored terrorism was considered a crime and tag of conspiracy theory was used..... He broke this trend......

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You are deliberately being dense. I have clearly stated that it is my belief that most of his popularity is due to PR campaign anyone who voices scepticism about his performance is branded as fifth column.

It's your belief that it's a PR campaign .. I'm merely asking by whom???

As for fifth column .. Can you give an example!? An Indian guy telling me about my country is kinda funny though.

In addition in earlier post I had suggested that Gen Shariff bought nothing new to the field - his policies were in continuance of the agenda set by his predecessors

.


Nope... They are not.. Kiyani did nothing except keeping quiet and cowering to political pressure (scared of terrorist blowback) etc.

Gen Raheel went into North Waziristan,Karachi ops,balochistan ops.. (Apart from increasing/accelerating development programs by mil in those regions etc)... Etc etc... He took corrupt military men to the docks (NLC scam,brother of gen kayani etc..

also if the military is the only functional and solid thing in Pakistan then perhaps it is because they have undermined other institutions.

I used the term "most functional and solid institution" not the "only" institution.. Either you are deliberately acting like a bafoon or you are dumb...
As for undermining institutions.. it hasn't .. Unless you can speculate on that..

 

[Cool_Soldier]

This is better decision, one should work, perform and should go.This gives the way to others to perform.Diversity is important.I appreciate his decision.

 

[rubyjackass]

i doubt looking at how professional Raheel Sharif has acted his advice would be to make the SENIOR MOST general the army chief!

and the government would follow the advice.

so i would expect a new example to be set by the senior most being made the army chief

Let us watch. ||X/ \X||

 

[mr.robot]

Lt Gen Ishfaq Nadeem
Lt Gen Javed Iqbal Ramday
Lt Gen Syed Wajid Hussain

This is my list of favorites, in order of merit. I took out the others because, traditionally their posts were not line for Army Chief post. Engineer-in-Chief never became Army chief in recent years, for example.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/army-chi...will-retire-on-due-date.419372/#ixzz3yKmFRt1T

Why not Zubair Mahmood Hayat who is CJS at GHQ? If he doesn't get appointed and it comes down to your list then be sure it will be Ramday as he is nephew of Justice(r)Khalil Ramday. Ramday Family's association with PMLN is as evident as sun light His son and Javed's cousin was advocate general of Punjab Government recently. Javed's uncle, Ch Asad ur Rahman, is currently MNA of PMLN from Toba Tek Singh(NA-94)

 

[ghazi52]

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[rubyjackass]

Why not Zubair Mahmood Hayat who is CJS at GHQ? If he doesn't get appointed and it comes down to your list then be sure it will be Ramday as he is nephew of Justice(r)Khalil Ramday. Ramday Family's association with PMLN is as evident as sun light His son and Javed's cousin was advocate general of Punjab Government recently. Javed's uncle, Ch Asad ur Rahman, is currently MNA of PMLN from Toba Tek Singh(NA-94)

I am sorry I missed the GHQ part while reading his credentials. I have eliminated people from their distance from the top post. For example, no Engineer became an Army chief in recent years. Someone who picked up a relaxing post in UN(probably by choice) won't be considered for the post. I thought Artillery regiment would be of smaller significance(if only he was not CJS at GHQ). An ISI head would have been of a different league but Raheel Sharif was professional enough to not install his favorite as ISI head. So no head in race from there.

Thanks for the background on General Ramday. Didn't know his mama was Asad ur Rahman. But I believe the process is for the current chief to recommend some names and for the PM to take his pick. Looks like Ramday will be in top 4 so given Nawaz Sharif's propensity for nepotism, he has very good chances.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Good decision by the General. For those mourning his departure, remember that there are many talented individuals, and individuals rarely build nations, processes do. In this case, the process of a Pakistani COAS retiring without an extension, followed by another, followed by another, that's the desired outcome that will lead to a stabler nation.

And allow me to troll a little- for all the credit that goes to the general, wasn't he appointed by one Nawaz Sharif?

So shouldn't Sharif Saab be congratulated for doing a fantastic job?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What is wrong is concentrated effort in the social, print and electronic media to portray General Shaiff as the be all and end all messianic figure who saved Pakistan. This carries the stink of orchestrated PR campaign. Towards what end? I don't know - may be as a launching pad for his political innings.

A potential foray into politics might have been feasible if Pakistan had a presidential, direct elect system of government. The parliamentary form of government in Pakistan, with all its inherent tribal, biradri and Zameendari/Sardari dynamics does not easily lend itself to new entrants 'storming to power'. Imran Khan found that out the hard way.

Also, while the PR campaign by ISPR is extremely slick and effective, your assessment of the goal doesn't take into account the fact that ISPR also understands the need for institutions and policies to have 'faces' and for the public to have 'heroes & saviours'.

Gen. Sharif is the 'face' and 'star' of the campaign, but the goal of the campaign is the reputation of the institution of the military and it's standing with the public.

Good time to make such a statement, now public pressure would build up on the govt to give him an extension. He would "reluctantly" accept it keeping the greater good of the country and public opinion in mind. The guy is a PR genius.

Actually, there is speculation that the filing of certain briefs with the Supreme Court, asking/demanding judicial cover for an extension, forced the public statement on retirement.

Given Pakistan's conspiratorial chattering classes and commentators, the court filings would more than likely have been construed as being influenced by the Army and we would have had a whole year of rumor and conspiracy mongering about the 'Civilian-Military divide' and machinations by the Army, etc etc --- all of which would have distracted from far more pressing issues.

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It would have been a 'win' the other way around for the politicos as well - they would have secretly lamented how they had no choice in the matter and how the military controls everything and how all of Pakistan's ills are because the military controls everything. The fact that children are dying in Thar NOW and the Sindh health minister is committing to release funding for local clinics etc 6 months down the road is apparently the Army's fault.

The stronger the impression the military is not calling the shots, the stronger the pressure on the politicians from the media and public on performing.

 

[RescueRanger]

A potential foray into politics might have been feasible if Pakistan had a presidential, direct elect system of government. The parliamentary form of government in Pakistan, with all its inherent tribal, biradri and Zameendari/Sardari dynamics does not easily lend itself to new entrants 'storming to power'. Imran Khan found that out the hard way.

Also, while the PR campaign by ISPR is extremely slick and effective, your assessment of the goal doesn't take into account the fact that ISPR also understands the need for institutions and policies to have 'faces' and for the public to have 'heroes & saviours'.

Gen. Sharif is the 'face' and 'star' of the campaign, but the goal of the campaign is the reputation of the institution of the military and it's standing with the public.


Actually, there is speculation that the filing of certain briefs with the Supreme Court, asking/demanding judicial cover for an extension, forced the public statement on retirement.

Given Pakistan's conspiratorial chattering classes and commentators, the court filings would more than likely have been construed as being influenced by the Army and we would have had a whole year of rumor and conspiracy mongering about the 'Civilian-Military divide' and machinations by the Army, etc etc --- all of which would have distracted from far more pressing issues.


It would have been a 'win' the other way around for the politicos as well - they would have secretly lamented how they had no choice in the matter and how the military controls everything and how all of Pakistan's ills are because the military controls everything. The fact that children are dying in Thar NOW and the Sindh health minister is committing to release funding for local clinics etc 6 months down the road is apparently the Army's fault.

The stronger the impression the military is not calling the shots, the stronger the pressure on the politicians from the media and public on performing.

Brilliant Analysis as usual.

 

[Green Arrow]

Lt Gen Ishfaq Nadeem
Lt Gen Javed Iqbal Ramday
Lt Gen Syed Wajid Hussain

This is my list of favorites, in order of merit. I took out the others because, traditionally their posts were not line for Army Chief post. Engineer-in-Chief never became Army chief in recent years, for example.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/army-chi...will-retire-on-due-date.419372/#ixzz3yKmFRt1T

Most probably It will be between Lt Gen Ishfaq Nadeem and Lt.Gen Zubair Hayat to be the next COAS.

A potential foray into politics might have been feasible if Pakistan had a presidential, direct elect system of government. The parliamentary form of government in Pakistan, with all its inherent tribal, biradri and Zameendari/Sardari dynamics does not easily lend itself to new entrants 'storming to power'. Imran Khan found that out the hard way.

Also, while the PR campaign by ISPR is extremely slick and effective, your assessment of the goal doesn't take into account the fact that ISPR also understands the need for institutions and policies to have 'faces' and for the public to have 'heroes & saviours'.

Gen. Sharif is the 'face' and 'star' of the campaign, but the goal of the campaign is the reputation of the institution of the military and it's standing with the public.


Actually, there is speculation that the filing of certain briefs with the Supreme Court, asking/demanding judicial cover for an extension, forced the public statement on retirement.

Given Pakistan's conspiratorial chattering classes and commentators, the court filings would more than likely have been construed as being influenced by the Army and we would have had a whole year of rumor and conspiracy mongering about the 'Civilian-Military divide' and machinations by the Army, etc etc --- all of which would have distracted from far more pressing issues.


It would have been a 'win' the other way around for the politicos as well - they would have secretly lamented how they had no choice in the matter and how the military controls everything and how all of Pakistan's ills are because the military controls everything. The fact that children are dying in Thar NOW and the Sindh health minister is committing to release funding for local clinics etc 6 months down the road is apparently the Army's fault.

The stronger the impression the military is not calling the shots, the stronger the pressure on the politicians from the media and public on performing.

Totally agree sir. Now our brilliant media will be busy to speculate in next 10 months that who will be the next COAS,