Army Act Amendment : New chapter included in the Army Act 1952

[Darth Vader]

who said that Pakistan is not on an emergency like situation? The threats are all time high!! I guess the conflict on LOC hasn't reached you. The visit and continuous reassurances that tri service are at full preparation level is not enough to indicate that?

Secondly there was clearly something that made the case for the extension! So lets stop being negative unnecessarily.

Nothing in Pakistan actually shows The So Called War Footing or emergency
Loc & Afghan Situation & TTP was much worse in Raheels Time.
Did he take the saim bait No .
Loc is always active be a one post or more nothing new.
Army for some time tryin to show that it has set a goal and top brass as a whole is involved and united on that front , State Should show that Army as whole is backing them not a single general which will only divide Army itself.
Majority of your points only prove my point that in this time Army should be shown as one institute instead of one person.
But in Honesty Government has not take a single step which actually shows the urgency or need for this long of extension.
Than Why not give extension to whole top brass including Navy & Air Force.
Heck Air Force was the main force which dismantled Indian Air Force Supremacy myth.
If it was lets say 3 or 6 months People would have backed it but this long simple No No.

 

[El Sidd]

The government shouldn't have to prove anything. The whole point of civilian supremacy is that the elected government gets to pick whomever it wants to run the 3 branches of the military & the CJCSC office. So if the government wants to give an extension to any chief, then that is their prerogative.

I know the point of civilian 'supremacy' and 'sovereignty'. There are bills lying around the Senate that are meant to give elected officials the power to interview and 'select' promotions above a certain level in the armed forces.

Has the parliament discussed the provisions of this amendment? Was there a healthy debate? You can either use supremacy of civilian or executive powers of the government. Cannot do both.

 

[Darth Vader]

No, it won't do that. Only one general is impacted, the one who loses out on the COAS position due to extension. The rest of the higher brass is not impacted since they will continue to serve till they retire or are dismissed from service.

No.
Reason being is Chief has always been selected by State of Pakistan.
Not by Army or seniority.

 

[Path-Finder]

Nothing in Pakistan actually shows The So Called War Footing or emergency
Loc & Afghan Situation & TTP was much worse in Raheels Time.
Did he take the saim bait No .
Loc is always active be a one post or more nothing new.
Army for some time tryin to show that it has set a goal and top brass as a whole is involved and united on that front , State Should show that Army as whole is backing them not a single general which will only divide Army itself.
Majority of your points only prove my point that in this time Army should be shown as one institute instead of one person.
But in Honesty Government has not take a single step which actually shows the urgency or need for this long of extension.
Than Why not give extension to whole top brass including Navy & Air Force.
Heck Air Force was the main force which dismantled Indian Air Force Supremacy myth.
If it was lets say 3 or 6 months People would have backed it but this long simple No No.

your opinion is your right! you expressed it.

It is not your job. It is governments job to make people believe that war is imminent and such extraordinary measures are warranted.

I guess " Mulk ek intehai nazuk daur se guzar raha hai " or otherwise worded " doctrine of necessity " is still pretty much relevant today.

You are however entitled to your opinion with and without the exclamation marks.

hmmn, well as we are gradually heading towards something lets see how wrong(or right you are) in due time.

 

[El Sidd]

hmmn, well as we are gradually heading towards something lets see how wrong(or right you are) in due time.

Hum bhi dekh lenge !!

 

[Imran Khan]

i think extension must be banned unless we are in real war like 65-71

 

[Yousafzai_M]

So the Army chief completes his tenure and then there is no general capable enough to replace him so he is given an extension. Thats what it looks like to me.

Just because Raheel Sharif or Bajwa do a great job does not mean there is no one else to replace them.

The whole point of 3 years tenure is that the Chief keeps changing, we get fresh people with fresh ideas. There should be no extension under any circumstances in my opinion, unless there is an actual war going on which hasn't been the case since 1971.

 

[Darth Vader]

your opinion is your right! you expressed it.

hmmn, well as we are gradually heading towards something lets see how wrong(or right you are) in due time.

Exactly everyone has their opinion but Fact is
1 This whole thing is a political move not for the sake of Pakistan is.
2 Gov and Politicians have shown not a single shred of evidence to back this claim, Since everyone loves democracy they should have followed that heck it was PM of Pakistan who Approved by not passing it through Right Channels.
3 The Timing is off, PTI is showing this as a carrot to the chief so Army doesn't interfere in anything which can harm the people in power.
4 Judiciary tried to make a joke of the Army itself and tried to discredit the institution itself.
5 The only Reason Pakistan Army and State had remained strong is the unconditional backing of the army especially in urban Areas If they lose that. Very Soon Pakistan as the state itself won't exist.
Knowingly and unknowingly Current State Actors somehow are destroying that.

 

[Village life]

V bad decision by Govt. and Bajwa , consequences will not be good for state as whole, IK and bajwa will be equally responsible , just these two,

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I know the point of civilian 'supremacy' and 'sovereignty'. There are bills lying around the Senate that are meant to give elected officials the power to interview and 'select' promotions above a certain level in the armed forces.

I don't see any positive impact from political interference/influence on the recruitment/promotions process of ANY institution, outside of the actual leadership appointments. So the fact that such bills are still lying around the Senate is a very good thing.

Has the parliament discussed the provisions of this amendment? Was there a healthy debate? You can either use supremacy of civilian or executive powers of the government. Cannot do both.

Whether the bill passes or not or whether there is debate or not is a different argument from whether the government has the prerogative to appoint the services chiefs and give them an extension. Extensions are going to be limited to a maximum of 3 years, which is completely acceptable and the government should not have to justify why it is extending or appointing XYZ service chief.

V bad decision by Govt. and Bajwa , consequences will not be good for state as whole, IK and bajwa will be equally responsible , just these two,

Why is it a bad decision?

I am generally against this "extension" BS, stagnant water of river generally become stinky while the steadily flowing water remains fresh.

It's not an unlimited extension. After the extension is complete, Bajwa will retire and will have served as COAS for 6 years total, which is not 'stagnant, stinky water'. Additionally, army officers under Bajwa will continue to leave the Army as they hit retirement age and/or advance through their careers. Stagnation occurs when you have the likes of the Sharifs & Zardari/Bhutto's rule their political parties like their personal fiefdoms for generations.

 

[El Sidd]

I don't see any positive impact from political interference/influence on the recruitment/promotions process of ANY institution, outside of the actual leadership appointments. So the fact that such bills are still lying around the Senate is a very good thing.
Whether the bill passes or not or whether there is debate or not is a different argument from whether the government has the prerogative to appoint the services chiefs and give them an extension. Extensions are going to be limited to a maximum of 3 years, which is completely acceptable and the government should not have to justify why it is extending or appointing XYZ service chief.

Those bills are expected to be incorporated with this act as per the plan of civilian supermacists.

As far as the argument of exercising executive power is concerned, the constitution does not grant any such power to any such post that cannot be challenged in the courts of Pakistan. No one is infallible in Pakistan as per constitution of Pakistan.

If the leadership appointments are political in nature, they will have a trickle down effect on the whole institution.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No.
Reason being is Chief has always been selected by State of Pakistan.
Not by Army or seniority.

What does that even mean?

Again, there is only ONE Army officer who will be impacted by the extension, and that is the Army officer who would have been appointed as COAS in place of Bajwa. None of the remaining Army officers will have their careers/promotions/advancement impacted.

If the leadership appointments are political in nature, they will have a trickle down effect on the whole institution

Leadership appointments will always be political in nature in a country like Pakistan with a history of military coups and the influence & popularity wielded by the Army. The saving grace here is that by the time the political leadership has to select someone, they have to do it from a pool of senior generals that have already been vetted, trained & promoted by the institution of the Army itself.

 

[El Sidd]

Leadership appointments will always be political in nature in a country like Pakistan with a history of military coups and the influence & popularity wielded by the Army. The saving grace here is that by the time the political leadership has to select someone, they have to do it from a pool of senior generals that have already been vetted, trained & promoted by the institution of the Army itself.

But once they are in that pool of selection. prospective politicians will and there is no doubt about it use them to get to power in return for a 6 year term as COAS.

 

[Village life]

Why is it a bad decision?

what is very important in bajwa that he is being a top priority of All the political parties ?, specially of those to whom we all accuse for the bad condition of Pakistan,? it's something very very fishy to me,

 

[Darth Vader]

What does that even mean?

I meant as the Gov of Pakistan - Prime Minister - and his Party who they think is favorable to them.

Again, there is only ONE Army officer who will be impacted by the extension, and that is the Army officer who would have been appointed as COAS in place of Bajwa. None of the remaining Army officers will have their careers/promotions/advancement impacted.


Leadership appointments will always be political in nature in a country like Pakistan with a history of military coups and the influence & popularity wielded by the Army. The saving grace here is that by the time the political leadership has to select someone, they have to do it from a pool of senior generals that have already been vetted, trained & promoted by the institution of the Army itself.

If a regular trend is set as i said earlier this will be used as a carrot and hurt Pakistan in Long Run,
Will affect the image of Pakistan army as well, if not much but it will, for so time Army has been trying to show that they are not interfering in the political matters overtly but if Chief does accept that what message will it send.
Army with all of its faults has always been independent Force, Good or bad that's another debate.
Why didn't Sharif accepted the Extension? He had much better reason to do so.