Arms cache recovered from Karachi madrassa

[SekrutYakhni]

Pure fiction. There was no disagreement between Khulafa. I dont know from where you are getting this. Please dont give khomeni as a source.

No, I am not giving him as a source. Read history with an open mind!


Accepting new views is always hard, I know that--

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

it's wrong to keep weapons in a religious place

was this a registered or underground madrassa?

 

[greatsequence]

No, I am not giving him as a source. Read history with an open mind!

Thats what I will suggest you. Quran transcripts from the 50-60 hijri are available and they are same as those we currently have.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Pure fiction. There was no disagreement between Khulafa. I dont know from where you are getting this. Please dont give khomeni as a source.

One more thing---

Believe whatever you want to believe in. You are free to think--fiction--reality--your coin--take a side---stick with it--

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Thats what I will suggest you. Quran transcripts from the 50-60 hijri are available and they are same as those we currently have.

As I said earlier, you have the coin--you picked one side--I picked the other--

 

[SekrutYakhni]

One more thing, as I stated earlier, there were changes made during Khalif times--


"Why did Hazrat Usman feel the need to destroy other copies of the Qur'an, unless they contained variants?"


There were changes made during Hazrat Umar's time too---read history IRRESPECTIVE of sects!!!!!

 

[muse]

For Quran to be preserved. The language, meaning and the message has to be preserved.

Well think about this statement -- Can Language remain unchanged? and therefore can meaning?

But, however, beyond this "dynamic" of the object of apprehension/perception, there is of course the similarly dynamic element of the subject doing the apprehension, right? And can this subject remain unchanged? presuming that he or she has a pulse?

So we have to be very careful, not reckless, or emotional - we have to discern that which is Eternal and that which is temporal, transitional, context bound - and granted that this is not something most people are used to and that they are more comfortable having a so called "scholar" tell them what to think, but, I would point out that the essence of BEING (as in active and present and CONSCIOUS) Muslim requires us to seek and examine multiple sources of advice and counsel in a continuous dialogue where we are in continuous movement towards, "truth" and it is this that is important as opposed to making claims of what that "truth" is in a definitive sense.

Does that make sense?

 

[greatsequence]

For meaning to be unchanged I made the point that language must be preserved. If you know arabic you will be able to tell that the language used in the sermons in the Arab world is the pure old Arabic. Arabic spoken in the Gulf and Mauritania is pretty much the old Arabic.

 

[greatsequence]

One more thing, as I stated earlier, there were changes made during Khalif times--


"Why did Hazrat Usman feel the need to destroy other copies of the Qur'an, unless they contained variants?"


There were changes made during Hazrat Umar's time too---read history IRRESPECTIVE of sects!!!!!

The very Early followers of Islam relied on memory rather than any text to recite Quran.

I knew you will come up with this crap. That is why I mentioned Khomeni and you ask me to read history irrespective of sect.

 

[muse]

If you know arabic you will be able to tell that the language used in the sermons in the Arab world is the pure old Arabic. Arabic spoken in the Gulf and Mauritania is pretty much the old Arabic.

That's rather Incredible - today, right now, Arabic speakers from Iraq or Lebanon or Algeria or Maroc, while speaking "arabic" infuse different ideas with different meanings and sometimes do not fully comprehend each other and yet, we should "believe" that Arabic in the Arabian peninsula is not ammenable to change?


Well, lets grant for sake of furthering our understanding, that the language has not changed ---which would mean that society has not changed and that the ideas that inform the society and language have not changed -- you see where this is going? and why it's not a defensible idea?


Anyway, if one has difficulty understanding a idea, it's best to seek clarification.

 

[greatsequence]

That's rather Incredible - today, right now, Arabic speakers from Iraq or Lebanon or Algeria or Maroc, while speaking "arabic" infuse different ideas with different meanings and sometimes do not fully comprehend each other and yet, we should "believe" that Arabic in the Arabian peninsula is not ammenable to change?


Well, lets grant for sake of furthering our understanding, that the language has not changed ---which would mean that society has not changed and that the ideas that inform the society and language have not changed -- you see where this is going? and why it's not a defensible idea?


Anyway, if one has difficulty understanding a idea, it's best to seek clarification.

I did not mention the Arabs of North Africa because they have very different Arabic dialects. However the root is still the same old Arabic language and as I said it is properly communicated across the arab world when it is done in the Jumma prayer sermons.

 

[friendly_troll96]

The title of this thread has been changed from ‘Language Preservation’ to ‘Arms Cache Recovered from Karachi Madrassa’! ;-p

 

[Durrak]

Prophet never restrict anyone from questioning him, religion or his logic / ahadees. Even if some wanted to go against it?? What gives is that I am being preached to be a "mute" to prove a worthy muslim??

Debate and questioning enlightens the society.
Mute belives send it backward to stone age.

How did people address Prophet Muhammed back in the 640 A.D??

Why do we have to attached titles like His honourable, long live, royal highness when addressing the so called muslim kings??

Why so much importance attached to monarchy of one family over Islamic rules of election by opinion??

Madrasas might be the most valuable colonisation tools every invented and far more effective even than the English Church. The Europeans will look back in the past and call it one more of their marvellous invention! How we pushed a civilization of 1.2 billion followers into extinction without firing a shot or operating execution camps. Nazi's will be envious and Stalin will roll in his grave!

sorry but here not even my single word is not saying not question
or become a follower of one family
i have just written that be careful when you talk about hadees or islam.
And i have already said said all are not same mostly people in the rural areas prefer madaris dan schools and if it can help in social betterment so what's bad in it.if few people are using them in a wrong manner it dosen't mean destroy them

 

[SekrutYakhni]

The very Early followers of Islam relied on memory rather than any text to recite Quran.

I knew you will come up with this crap. That is why I mentioned Khomeni and you ask me to read history irrespective of sect.

It is not Khomeni-ism! So you have just labelled it crap--sounds interesting---

Even if it is Khomeni-ism, this guy has STATED THE WORLD that Khomeni cannot be right in anything!

Perhaps, your sect is the best.

Now, I am coming to individual basis--Read history from a neutral source--

Ohh, Sunnis are the righteous, coming on a white horse--
Ohh, Shias are the righteous, coming with a book--
Ohh, bralive and deo bandi are the righteous, coming on the donkey--
Ohh, Ahmadis are the righteous, coming on the cow--

Who is right?--Who is wrong?--None of my business--The only point was to tell you to read history from a neutral source--

I was raised in a Sunni house--Jesus will come--Will help us---Sounds good--
Ahmadis--Jesus wil not come--I actually knew that BEFORE I read about Ahmadis point--So you cannot say that I was influenced by their logic--

The road of the chosen one is in the middle of all sects!
Every sect has few things right!

 

[SekrutYakhni]

That's rather Incredible - today, right now, Arabic speakers from Iraq or Lebanon or Algeria or Maroc, while speaking "arabic" infuse different ideas with different meanings and sometimes do not fully comprehend each other and yet, we should "believe" that Arabic in the Arabian peninsula is not ammenable to change?


Well, lets grant for sake of furthering our understanding, that the language has not changed ---which would mean that society has not changed and that the ideas that inform the society and language have not changed -- you see where this is going? and why it's not a defensible idea?


Anyway, if one has difficulty understanding a idea, it's best to seek clarification.

Muse, lets go and read Holy Quran. Open up a surat, read it--Don't you find yourself in the middle of the road considering a sudden change in topic?
Got it, I am not a scholar.