What's new

Armata vs Abrams Which one is better?

Comparing tanks is just stupid.
Different tanks meant for different tasks, while some has more features than others, doesn't mean they're better at the task at hand.
Also, you can't compare armor nor electronics cause those are mostly classified.
Also, Armata is still in development, any ranking around that tank is ridiculous and pure propaganda
 
.
I don't see any question of "If" not "when". If it had been a question of "if" not "when", then it wouldn't have been a comparison of two MBTs.



That is why I said that it is superior in concept, but nothing can be said for sure until it is proven in tests and then successfully tested in combat. The concept remains superior even if the technology has not evolved to that level.

Well, I don't see it "Superior" in concept, I see it as different concept, which one is better depending on 2 things, 1.) How good a platform turn out 2.) How this platform develop into, until we have the answer to these two question, we would not know which is a superior concept.
 
.
The T-14 Armata is light years ahead of the M1 Abrams and all other MBTs of the world. It will make the current technology obsolete as soon as it enters service.

armata is not proven
plus tanks are increasingly relics in modern battlefield
 
.
Well, I don't see it "Superior" in concept, I see it as different concept, which one is better depending on 2 things, 1.) How good a platform turn out 2.) How this platform develop into, until we have the answer to these two question, we would not know which is a superior concept.

Tank designers have always had to design an MBT within three major constraints 1) Armor 2) Mobility 3) Firepower. By using an unmanned turret, the Armata increases mobility while maintaining firepower and armor. It also reduces its size which makes it a more difficult target and allows it to reach places which a 70 ton monster can not. So the Armata is superior as a concept to the Abrams.

The superiority of a concept has nothing to do with how the platform turns out to be. This is because even if the technology has not matured enough to support the advanced concept, that doesn't imply that the thinking was incorrect. That only means that further research is required before it can be put into practice.

The Armata is still a concept right now and has to go through a lot of tests. If it passes them, then it will be a better weapons system then an Abrams. If not, it will remain a superior concept to the Abrams but not a superior weapons system to the Abrams. There is a difference between the two.

armata is not proven
plus tanks are increasingly relics in modern battlefield

Of course it isn't a proven weapons system. But it actually follows all the latest theories of armored warfare. In any case, it is UNWISE to say that tanks are relics in modern warfare. All weapons combine to overpower an adversary. The army which works together better wins. That has been the central concept of warfare since the beginning of time.
 
Last edited:
.
What if Armata would be a drone or remote controlled?
For me Armata is the initial stage passing the next level "unmanned tanks".
Today tanks with crew need strong Armour which Armata doesn't have.
 
.
You're a special kind of stupid. Read the topic. It compares the Armata versus the Abrams, not me, and I specifically mentioned that the Armata is superior as a concept which will make others obsolete WHEN it enters service.

Go and learn to read before you start squealing again.
Armata which has not entered the service yet can be easily destroyed with Javelin or Spike ATGMs which entered the service 20 years ago.
 
.
Armata which has not entered the service yet can be easily destroyed with Javelin or Spike ATGMs which entered the service 20 years ago.

Lol! You need to keep urself updated, the javelin was fired on a t-72b3 in syria last year and not only the crew survived but also the tank with damage that repairable. Like I've said before the Russians r the world leaders in armour,and the armata is the pinnacle with its one of a kind afghanit APS and the malachit dual-ERA just to name a few.

The T-14 Armata is a new and advanced main battle tank, and may be the first next generation tank to enter serial production.[13][71] British intelligence views the unmanned turret as providing many advantages.[72] It has been described as a major concern for Western armies.[73][72] However, western observers question the economics of Russia's modern tanks like the T-90 and T-14 to be available in significant numbers.[74][75]

Russia claims the tank's main armament is twenty years ahead of comparable Western tank guns and renders existing NATO anti-tank weaponry obsolete.[55] In response to the Armata, German Rheinmetall AG has developed a new 130mm L/51 tank gun, claiming it provides a 50% increased armor penetration over the 120mm L/55 in service with the Bundeswehr today. Additionally, Germany and France have joined efforts to develop an unspecified "main ground combat system" (MGCS) to compete with the technological advances of the Armata and replace both the Leclerc and Leopard 2 MBTs around 2030.[71][76] This is a brief NATO response.

An extract from wikipedia related to the protection:
The T-14's crew of three is protected by an internal armored capsule[2] with more than 900 mm RHA equivalent,[2] increasing their chance of survival in case of a catastrophic kill.[25][48] Both the chassis and the turret are equipped with the Malachit dual-explosive reactive armour (ERA) system on the front, sides and the top.[26][49] The turret's shape is designed to reduce its radio and thermal signature.[26] The tank uses an integrated, computerized control system which monitors the state and functions of all tank modules. In battle, the software can analyze threats and then either suggest or automatically take actions to eliminate them, while without the external threat it can detect and rectify crew errors.[29]Serial production of the Armata Platform's ceramic armor components began in mid-2015.[50]

The tank features the Afghanit (Russian: Афганит) active protection system (APS),[51] which includes a millimeter-wavelength radar to detect, track, and intercept incoming anti-tankmunitions, both kinetic energy penetrators and tandem-charges.[2][52] Currently, the maximum speed of the interceptable target is 1,700 m/s (Mach 5.0), with projected future increases of up to 3,000 m/s (Mach 8.8).[18] According to news sources, it protects the tank from all sides,[26] however it is not geared towards shooting upwards to defend against top-attack munitions.[53][54] These systems put the Armata a generation ahead in terms of defensive technology. Such systems are "only in their infancy on British and American tanks".[55]

Defense Update released an analysis of the tank in May 2015, speculating that Afghanit's main sensors are the four panels mounted on the turret's sides, which are probably AESA radar panes spread out for a 360° view, with possibly one more on top of the turret. In their opinion, the active part of the system consists of both a hard kill and soft kill element, the first of which actively destroys an incoming projectile (such as an unguided rocket or artillery shell), while the second confuses the guidance systems of ATGMs, causing them to lose target lock. They believe that it would be effective against 3rd and 4th generation ATGMs, including Hellfire, TOW, BILL, Javelin, Spike, Brimstone, and JAGM, as well as sensor-fused weapons (SFW).[56] Some Russian sources claim the hard-kill APS is effective even against depleted uranium-cored armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) rounds traveling at 1.5–2 km/s (0.93–1.24 mi/s), but others are skeptical, saying the fragmentation charge would not do much to the dense penetrator; while it might be able to push it off course somewhat with a hit-to-kill approach, it likely won't do much to stop it.[57] Practical tests confirmed the destruction of the uranium subcalibration projectile (goal speed up to 2 km / s).[58]

Afghanit hard-kill launchers are the long tubes mounted in groups of five between the turret's front sides and the chassis.[26] These send out an electronically activated charge that fires an Explosively Formed Penetrator towards the target (in all directions).[59] The tank is also equipped with the NII Stali Upper Hemisphere Protection Complex,[60] which consists of two steerable cartridges with 12 smaller charges each, and a turret-top VLS with two more similar cartridges,[61] corresponding to the vehicle's soft kill APS.[56] Additionally, using the AESA radar and anti-aircraft machine gun it is possible to destroy incoming missiles and slow-flying shells (except kinetic energy penetrators).[62]

BTW Majority of these sources r western
 
.
Lol! You need to keep urself updated, the javelin was fired on a t-72b3 in syria last year and not only the crew survived but also the tank with damage that repairable.
Quit smoking. Javelin was never fired at tanks in Syria.
 
.
Armata which has not entered the service yet can be easily destroyed with Javelin or Spike ATGMs which entered the service 20 years ago.

You're missing the point. All weapons can be tackled in certain circumstances and all weapons have certain roles. As an MBT, the Armata is based on a superior concept as compared to other MBTs. It is not a super weapon. In the right conditions, it can even be destroyed by a WW2 era Stuka!
 
. . .
You're missing the point. All weapons can be tackled in certain circumstances and all weapons have certain roles. As an MBT, the Armata is based on a superior concept as compared to other MBTs. It is not a super weapon. In the right conditions, it can even be destroyed by a WW2 era Stuka!
The concept of Armata was tested in US decades ago:

t1.jpg


The reason why it was ditched is because vs. modern top attack munition there is no any difference. Ditto mines, ditto side and rear attacks.
 
.
The concept of Armata was tested in US decades ago:

View attachment 430937

The reason why it was ditched is because vs. modern top attack munition there is no any difference. Ditto mines, ditto side and rear attacks.
Back then the technology tested is decades behind the armata and its was unproven at that time so they ditched it. Just like these days when unproven technologies are too expensive to introduce they are ditched for programs that are less expensive and some parts of that program are used in the next one to make it as capable as possible.
 
.
Back then the technology tested is decades behind the armata and its was unproven at that time so they ditched it. Just like these days when unproven technologies are too expensive to introduce they are ditched for programs that are less expensive and some parts of that program are used in the next one to make it as capable as possible.
US technologies are light years ahead of Russian. There is nothing to compare here.
 
.
The concept of Armata was tested in US decades ago:

View attachment 430937


The reason why it was ditched is because vs. modern top attack munition there is no any difference. Ditto mines, ditto side and rear attacks.

Can you please confirm the name of this project? I have never heard of it. Could be an internet spoof.

Firstly the technology of decades earlier is much weaker than what is available today, and so we don't know if the Armata has overcome the issues of this American prototype.

Secondly, if the Russians have to build a new vehicle, why shouldn't they go for an unmanned turret as opposed to a manned turret? Why is it so hard to digest that one would go for an unmanned turret even if it offers only marginal improvements? Designing, testing and manufacturing is a gargantuan exercise, so why wouldn't they incorporate this unmanned turret which reduces the tank size, improves its mobility and reduces its cost simultaneously?
 
.
Back
Top Bottom