Arjun News & Discussions

[Relucent]

ChinaPakistan Ji.There are trolls on both sides.I prefer not to add fuel to the flame.So shpuld u. "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then they beat you with experience " .
Abt this thread It was Shchinese who started flaming.See for yourself.

 

[jbond197]

Before you come out to open your dirty mouth to sh@t, you should read all the post. It seems you posted only for trolling. I just replied that to the guy below. And you are using a racist remark of calling chinese "Chinki Trolls". And your post has been reported.

Listen dude, I don't want to get into the debate who is shooting ***** through out this forum it's for all to see. Also We don't need any Chineese expert advise on what we are making or what we are importing. anyways this is Off Topic so I will rather stick to the topic.

 

[jbond197]

Again, can you change another way to troll when you are faild in a debate? I can search everything on internet, and what I said is wel world known. Can you even deny that your country cant provide stable electrisic power? And you should thank to chinese company bcoz of them you can use internet. Face fact, dont only watch indian big mouth media..

I was debating with you something, I didn't knew that.. I think I should have completly ignored you as you are ur contrymen shchineese are expert in troll technology..

 

[DMLA]

Amazing!!!

Anyhow, These are deployment trials being conducted to decide the role of the Arjun in any future war. We should however look out for the next avatar of Arjun which has the potential to be ordered in larger numbers.

things to look out for:

New NERA under development
1500 hp engine
Active defence suite (Possibly Trophy), "desi" LWR, IR jammer, etc
New UGV to help with targetting
RC turrets

 

[conworldus]

Isn't the Arjun v. T-90 trial going on right now? The India media is always loud how come it is silent on this?

 

[DMLA]

It is not a comparative trial. It is a deployment trial and is still a few weeks away.

A thread already exists. I would urge the mods to take necessary action!

thanks!

 

[Righteous_Fire]

T-90:The army's armor of deception​

​

February 04, 2010 03:31 IST​

On August 24 last year, the Ministry of Defense (MoD) dressed up failure as achievement when--almost nine years after India bought the T-90 tank from Russia--the first 10 built-in-India T-90s were ceremonially rolled out of the Heavy Vehicles Factory near Chennai.

No reasons were given for that delay. Nor did the Ministry of Defense reveal the T-90's ballooning cost, now a whopping Rs 17.5 crore. On November 30, 2006, the MoD told the Lok Sabha that the T-90 tank cost Rs 12 crore apiece. Parliament does not yet know about the 50 per cent rise in cost.

The story of the T-90 has been colored by deception and obfuscation from even before the tank was procured. Business Standard has pieced together, from internal documents and multiple interviews with MoD sources, an account of how the Indian Army has saddled itself with an under performing, yet overpriced, version of the Russian T-90.

The deception stemmed from the army's determination to push through the T-90 contract despite vocal opposition from sections of Parliament. Former Prime Minister H D Deve Gowda argued--

allegedly because a close associate had a commercial interest in continuing with T-72 production--that fitting the T-72 with modern fire control systems and night vision devices would be cheaper than buying the T-90. Deve Gowda correctly pointed out that even Russia's army had spurned the T-90.

To bypass his opposition, the MoD and the army reached an understanding with Rosvoorouzhenie, Russia's arms export agency. The T-90 would be priced only marginally higher than the T-72 by removing key T-90 systems; India would procure those through supplementary contracts after the T-90 entered service. Excluded from India's T-90s was the Shtora active protection system, which protects the T-90 from incoming enemy missiles. This was done knowing well that Pakistan's anti-tank defense are based heavily on missiles.

Other important systems were also pared. The MoD opted to buy reduced numbers of the INVAR missile, which the T-90 fires. Maintenance vehicles, which are vital to keep the T-90s running, were not included in the contract. All this allowed the government to declare before Parliament that the Russian T-90s cost just Rs 11 crore, while the assembled-in-India T-90s were Rs 12 crore apiece.

The MoD did not mention that these prices would rise when the supplementary contracts were negotiated. Nor did it reveal that India's pared-down T-90s barely matched the performance of the Pakistan Army's recently acquired T-80 UD tank,

which India had cited as the threat that demanded the T-90.

Worse was to follow when the initial batch of 310 T-90s entered service (124 bought off-the-shelf and 186 as knocked-down kits). It quickly became evident--and that too during Operation Parakram, with India poised for battle against Pakistan--that the T-90s were not battle worthy. The T-90's thermal imaging sights, through which the tank aims its 125mm gun, proved unable to function in Indian summer temperatures. And, the INVAR missiles assembled in India simply didn't work. Since nobody knew why, they were sent back to Russia.

Even more alarmingly, the army discovered that the T-90 sighting systems could not fire Indian tank ammunition, which was falling short of the targets. So, even as a panicked MoD appealed to the DRDO and other research institutions to re-orient the T-90's fire control computer for firing Indian ammunition, Russian ammunition was bought.

With Russia playing hardball, none of the supplementary contracts have yet gone through. The TI sights remain a problem. The army has decided to fit each T-90 with an Environment Control System, to cool the delicate electronics with a stream of chilled air. None of the world's current tanks, other than France's LeClerc, has such a system. The American Abrams and the British Challenger tanks fought in the Iraq desert without air-conditioning. India's Arjun tank, too, has "hardened" electronics that function perfectly even in the Rajasthan summer.

Nor has the MoD managed to procure the Shtora anti-missile system. The Directorate General of Mechanised Forces now plans to equip India's eventual 1,657-tank T-90 fleet with the advanced ARENA active protection system, for which it has budgeted Rs 2,500 crore in the Army Acquisition Plan for 2009-11.

The greatest concern arose when Russia held back on its contractual obligation to transfer the technology needed to build 1,000 T-90s in India. But, instead of pressuring Russia, the MoD rewarded it in 2007 with a contract for 347 more T-90s. In an astonishing Catch-22, the MoD argued that the new purchase was needed because indigenous production had not begun.

Next month, when the T-90 is measured against the Arjun in comparative trials, the T-90s' drawbacks will not be evident. But, as officers who have operated the T-90 admit, these could be crucial handicaps in battle.

"It is for these reasons that I have consistently argued for supporting the Indian Arjun tank," says General Shankar Roy Chowdhury, former army chief and himself a tankman. "Another country can hold India hostage in many ways. We need to place an order for several hundred Arjun tanks so that economies of scale can kick in and we can bring down the price even further." If the Arjun performs strongly in next month's comparative trials around Suratgarh and Pokhran, that order could be in the offing.​

====================

References:

Business Standard :: Business News,Finance News, World Business, India Stock News, Indian stock market, India investments, Indian Industry, Sensex, Nifty, BSE, NSE, India Business, India Economy, India, share market, Corporate Result, Finance News fr

Piercing the army's armour of deception: Rediff.com India News

====================

Personal Note: it seems the corrupt politicians and bureaucracy that we so much fuss about here is much more ripe and strong in India. However, compared to Pakistan, India loses much more when public money is wasted like this.​

 

[sudhir007]

Main Battle Tank - Arjun
in order to put India on the world map along with other countries capable of mastering the technology of designing and developing their own MBTs, in March 1974, the Government of India accorded clearance for the development of an indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT). DRDO was nominated to execute the mission. The Chronology of Development is as under :- Development of first prototype - November 1983 Development and production of next - November 1983 to 1992 Series prototypes (12 Numbers) Development and production of Pre- - 1992 to 1995 Production Series (PPS tanks) (12 numbers) Production of another three PPS tanks - 1995-1996 Rolling out of five Limited Series Production - 07 August 2004 (LSP) tanks Five LSP tanks handed over to 43 Armoured - February 2005” Regiment 3.37 The Committee desired to know the reason behind the cost escalation as the original cost of MBT project was Rs. 15.50 crore in 1974 which escalated to Rs. 306 crore in 2005. The Ministry submitted the following reason :- “The original scope & requirement of 15 pre-Prod tanks was enhanced. 15 Pre-production Series (PPS) tanks involving production cost of 110 cr is included in the development cost .Accuracy of fire has been enhanced”. 3.38 The Ministry was asked to give comparative table of production cost, features and capability of Arjun Tank with original and upgraded T-90 and T-72 Tank. The Ministry replied as under :- “MBT Arjun is a 60 tonne class battle tank with state of the art optro-electronic power-packed control system, weapon management system and high performance suspension. It is a product unique in its class specifically configured for Indian Army requirement. Unlike T-90 tank which was primarily built for Russian Armed Forces, adapted by Indian Army for certain specific roles, this T-90 is a 50 tonne class vehicle which does not have some of the advanced features of MBT Arjun. But it is an improved system over T-72 tank. A price comparison between the two tanks, therefore, will not be in order. However, it is important to know that MBT Arjun had a cost of Rs 17.20 crore per system from the production line and is Rs 6-8 crore cheaper than its contemporary system in the west. It is understood that T-90 tank is costing approximately Rs 12 crore and is yet to be indigenised. Some of the salient features of the three tanks are given below :
MBT Arjun :
Four men operated crew.
120 mm gun.
60 tons weight.
Powered by1400-1500 hp engine.

T-90 and T-72 Tanks:
Three men operated crew
125 mm gun
50 tons weight
Powered by 780-1000 hp engine
MBT Arjun firing accuracy is far superior to other two tanks. It has a second generation thermal imager and can engage targets at 2500 meters. Its 1400 hp engine ensures excellent mobility performance. It has capability to fire Laser Homing Anti Tank (LAHAT) missile from the barrel of the gun. Only T-90 tank has such capability. .MBT Arjun has good export potential in African countries due to its superior features vis-à-vis contemporary MBTs.” 3.39 During oral evidence, on the quality of Arjun Tank, the non-official expert informed the Committee :- “……… I am afraid our quality control is very poor I have heard that fives tanks were presented before the media, however, when the media and other people went away, the tanks were put back in the factory because still some quality checks had to be made. The biggest problem in India in respect of defence production is quality control. If China can do it, why can we not do it ?” 3.40 During oral evidence, on the production of MBT Arjun, the representative of the Ministry informed the Committee :-
“After we took over the production from the DRDO first year we decided to deliver five tanks. These tanks were delivered last year. This year we are delivering 15 tanks more. Now 14 tanks which we had promised are ready. But while the tanks were handed over to the Army, they went for an extensive user trial. Now in the user trial some minor defects were noticed and these defects are being rectified one-by-one. Now the corrective actions which are required are expected to be completed by January this year. After this corrective action, further trials will take place. Now these are very small defects”.
Regarding the snag, he further stated :- “Sir, we have driven them and for over 60,000 kms and fired more than 8,000 rounds. There was no problem. What happens is that in the gun control system, there are power amplifiers which are used in the fire control system. Some temperature settings were not properly done by the parent company. These were tucked inside. As you know, now-a-days, the deck is packaged so densely even to get access to that you have to take out the whole module. So, when this type of settings get disturbed, the rule says that one has to go through the whole qualification process again. There is no change in the design. It is a temperature re-setting which was got done. That has been rectified. Now the tanks would be there by the middle of January”.
During oral evidence, on the problems faced by MBT Arjun during trials, the representative of the Ministry apprised the Committee :- “In the Arjun, we got into a little bit of a problem because certain temperature-setting switches were not tuned properly. They had to be returned. Yes, this was a problem of the Defence Research Scientists who have not seen that 60 degree setting was not kept at 60, but at 55 which is a normal standard of that company which supplied those parts follow. But we had in the prototype modified that for the 60. so, this had to be done. Once this got done, now we are ready. So some of these productions hiccup if they do take place in the initial phase, they should not dispirit us because whenever we do new products like that, we may face these kinds of problems”.
On the requirement of Tanks by the Army and the present position of orders received from the Army for Arjun Tank and also time schedule to deliver the same, the Ministry replied as under :-
“Total requirements of Army is about 3500 tanks. Army has placed an indent for manufacture of 124 MBT Arjun. Heavy Vehicle Factory (HVF) Avadi, a constituent unit of Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), has set up exclusively for Main Battle Tank (MBT), Arjun an assembly bay that has just started functioning. Once the activity picks up speed in this facility, HVF is confident to produce 50 Arjun tanks per year from the year 2009 onwards subject to continuous requirement by the user. T-90 tank is also being produced in the same factory under a separate production line.”
On NBC and missile protection system, the Ministry supplied following information: “Tank T-90 and ARJUN have NBC protection system. In the case of T-72 tanks the NBC protection system exists in the recent models of the tanks. The older tanks, which had relatively less protection are now being upgraded. There is no missile protection system available on the Indian Army tanks. At present the tanks will be able to avoid/bear conventional attacks due to mobility and armour protection. Active protection system is being procured for T-90 tanks.”

The Committee are perturbed to note that the Government of India accorded clearance for the development of an indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun in May 1974. Even after the lapse of more than 34 years, the nominated agency of DRDO could not execute the mission so far. Inordinate delay has escalated the original cost of MBT project from Rs.15.50 crore in 1974 to Rs. 306 crore in 2005. The Committee are surprised to note that neither the execution agency of DRDO or the certifying agency Director General Quality Assurance (DGQA) are taking responsibility for the inordinate delay and quantity in production of MBT Arjun. Out of 124 ordered for tanks by the users, only 15 tanks have been produced by the Heavy Vehicle Factory, Avadi. Therefore, the Committee desire that the Ministry of Defence should think seriously as to how to comply Arjun’s requirement in a time bound manner.

for full information read :
http://164.100.24.208/ls/CommitteeR/Defence/16threport.pdf

 

[black flame]

No, and China should never seek to achieve such 100% self sufficient.

The problem here is india is importing everything, while China is building most of its weapons.

it is also funny that whenever this issue is raised, indians start crying "your weapons are copied from russia/us". I am wondering if we fly J-11B over the sky of new delhi and start bombing your building, what kind of reaction we would get from indians? indians start protesting that China should attack india using weapons that have a clean copyright record?

same thing goes for u if our SU30MKI's Or LCA or fly over bejing and bomb it or arjun tanks destroy ur front line tanks and akash missile shoot down ur missiles and aircraft will u react saying that it is imported or say that LCA is not 100% indian made where most of the parts which flies the aircraft are imported or arjun is a junk and engine is german....????? WHAT SAY U.......

 

[sab]

hope your aricraft won't crash on its way.

how many indian mig crashes we had in the past 5 years?

wipe your A$$ first.

Has anyone heard of any PLAAF Air-craft crash? I think PLAAF maintains a tight lip strategy about it. I got following statistics in a forum about PLAAF plane crashes up to 2004. I am giving the forum link as well as the link of the Chinese news site where the source article was published ( you need to use a translator to read the original one). Seems they are also not far behind of India or Pakistan.

Forum link [Accident Report] PLAAF JH-7 accidents in China - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

original source ÖйúÕ½¶·»úʧʼǼ--ÖлªÍø--¾üÊÂƵµÀ





In the Chinese (China) news site china.com, an article dated 2005.05.25 at
http://military.china.com/zh_cn/bbs/.../12342296.html
has a list of PLA/PLAAF/PLAN accidents and crashes, in 1980 to 2004, in China.

Disclaimer: I don't know how real/unreal these are, or whether these are more science phantasy by China bashers, but I translate them for future comparison/verification anyway.

9 November 2004:
In Yun Nan Province, near Meng Zi, two J-7B collided.
44 Division, PLAAF.
Lead pilot martyred. Wingman pilot ejected.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very probably real.]

30 June 2004:
About 80 km from Wu Han City, a J-7B flew into a thunder storm, had problem, and crashed, while returning to base.
On the ground, one civilian killed, one civilian wounded. Two houses burnt.
Pilot ejected.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very probably real.]

2004:
In Liao Ning Province, a JJ-5 crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Yan Ji, a J-7E crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Chang Sha, A Su-30MKK crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Zun Hua, a J-8 crashed.

2004:
Near He Fei, a Su-30MK2 crashed.
Pilot(s) ejected.

18 October 2002:
A Z-9 violated disciplines, flew beyond the training area at very low altitude, flew into power lines, and crashed.
Four crew martyred.

12 July 2002:
A JJ-6 had engine problem and crashed.
Pilot(s) ejected.

27 May 2002:
A Su-30MKK crashed.
Two crew ejected.

March 2002:
At high altitude and high speed, a J-8B pilot had G-LOC. The aircraft oversped and disintegrated.
Pilot martyred.

27 September 2001:
At 10:45, in Cheng Du military district, Fu Shun County, Wan Shou Town, near Guang Rong Village, a CJ-6, number 61723, crashed into a mountain.
Cheng Du military district air force, PLAAF.
Pilot martyred, body located at 22:30.

August 2001:
A Su-30MKK had landing gear problem. To attempt to save the aircraft, pilots didn't eject. Crashed and exploded while landing.
3rd Division, PLAAF.
Two crew martyred.

July 2001:
In Inner Mongolia, desert region, a J-7B crashed.
7th Division, PLAAF.

2 June 2001:
A JJ-7 had bird strike and crashed.
Pilot(s) martyred.

12 April 2001:
A J-7M had bird strike and crashed, while taking off.
3rd Test Flight Wing, PLAAF, based at Cheng Du.
Pilot martyred.

11 April 2001:
A Q-5 stalled and crashed.
28th Division, PLAAF.

1 April 2001:
A J-8B, number 81097, and an USN EP-3E collided, and the J-8B crashed.
9th Division, PLAN, based at Ling Shui AB, Hai Nan Province.
Major WANG Wei martyred.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very real.]

1 April 2001:
A J-7B, number 30901, had bird strike and crashed, while taking off.
19th Division, PLAAF, based at Nan Yang AB, He Nan Province.
Pilot, a wing deputy commander, martyred.

31 March 2001:
A J-7E crashed, because engine turbine blade flew out.

2 February 2001:
A Su-27 had lubricant ventilator cracked, lubricant steam leaked, and caught fire. Aircraft crashed while landing.
19th Division, PLAAF, based at Ji Nan AB, Shan Dong Province.
Pilot martyred.

4 January 2001:
In He Nan Province, at Zheng Zhou AB, two Y-8, number 31242 and 31243, crashed while landing, because of icing on tail wings.
13th Division, PLAAF.
12 crew martyred.
One aircraft crashed into civilian house(s), killed six more and wounded two more.

19 September 2000:
A Y-7, number 3418, crashed while landing.
All crew martyred.

August 2000:
In Chong Qing, a Su-27UBK had fuel pipe cracked and exploded in mid-air.
33rd Division, PLAAF.
Pilot WU Xin and instructor pilot LIN Ling martyred.

28 March 2000:
In Jiang Xi Province, a J-7E had mechanical problem, lost control, and crashed.
14th Division, PLAAF, based at Zhang Shu AB, Jiang Xi Province.
Pilot martyred.

November 1999:
In Cheng Du military district, during an exercise, three J-7E launched missiles and shot down each other.
Pilots martyred.
[IMO, this is too strange to be true.]

1 April 1999:
A JJ-6 had mechanical problem and crashed.
Pilot ejected.

30 March 1999:
A Q-5C had secondary wings connections left-right reversed. During take-off, it slanted off the runway to the left and inverted.
Pilot martyred.
[I think "secondary wings" means "ailerons"?]

19 February 1999:
A H-6, while landing, hopped and crashed.
All crew martyred. A H-6 usually has six crew.

18 November 1998:
A J-7 had engine compressor cracked and crashed.
Pilot ejected.

22 October 1998:
A JJ-7, while practising take-off and landing, couldn't lower its left landing gear.
Pilot(s) ejected.

October 1998:
A J-7L trainer crashed into a mountain.
Pilot martyred.

15 September 1998:
In Tian Jin, near Yang Cun, a Ba Yi J-7EB, number 10, was looping at low altitude, stalled, and crashed.
The Ba Yi is the PLAAF air demo team.
Pilot YANG Sheng Li martyred.

25 August 1998:
A JJ-6 was test-running on the ground, engine caught fire, and burnt out.

21 July 1998:
A J-6 had engine problem and crashed while taking off.
Pilot martyred.

May 1998:
A Su-27SK, number 13, disintegrated in mid-air, because of careless ground checks and pilot's manoeuvring.
Based at Wu Hu AB, An Hui Province.
Pilot CHEN Li Ming martyred.

27 April 1998:
Two J-7D collided and crashed, during night training mission.
29th Division, PLAAF, based at Qu Zhou AB, Zhe Jiang Province.
Lead (number 25106) pilot ejected. Wingman (25007) pilot martyred.

27 February 1998:
A Z-11 flew onto the ground because of pilot error, during low altitude test flight.
Crew not wounded.

17 February 1998:
A JJ-6 took off, engine caught fire, and crashed.
Two crew martyred.

12 November 1997:
At Sui Xi AB, two SU-27SK took off, collided, and crashed.

6 November 1997:
A Su-27 engine flamed out and crashed.

10 October 1997:
A JJ-6 flew into power lines and crashed.
Two crew martyred.

23 August 1997:
A JJ-7 had bird strike, while taking off for night traning sortie.
Pilot(s) ejected.

August 1997:
In Chong Qing, a 33rd Division, PLAAF, J-8B and a Y-6 collided while landing.
J-8B pilot ejected.
Y-6 four crew martyred. Y-6 was carrying 20 air-launched bombs.

14 July 1997:
Two J-7 crashed while landing in poor weather.
Two pilots martyed.

May 1997:
A Su-27SMK [sic] crashed into a mountain, because novice pilot unfamiliar with night training.
Based at Sui Xi AB.
Pilot LIN Zhi martyred.

January 1997:
In Gui Lin control area, a J-7 crashed.
2nd Division, PLAAF.

November 1996:
Two J-8B, number 81295 and 81186, crashed.
PLAN, based at Ling Shui AB, Hai Nan Province.
Pilots WANG Fang and LI Ming martyred.

27 November 1996:
In Si Chuan Province, two Su-27UBK collided while flying close formation, after lead aircraft engine flamed out.

13 October 1996:
A J-6 had both engines sputtered and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

11 June 1996:
A J-6 flew into a spiral and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

April 1996:
In Hu Bei Province, at Yi Chang AB, a Su-27SK crashed while landing.

24 June 1994:
A flight of two JJ-6 flew into a thunder storm, attempted and failed emergency landings.

10 June 1994:
A H-5 had compass malfunction, got lost, bingo fuel, and failed emergency landing.
Crew martyred.

23 April 1992:
A J-6 crashed, because of pilot error.
Pilot ejected.

22 July 1988:
A J-6 crashed.
Pilot martyred.

21 July 1987:
A J-6 had engine flame-out and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

16 September 1984:
A J-6 crashed, because of pilot error.
Pilot martyred.

29 March 1980:
A J-6 crashed into a mountain while landing.
Pilot martyred.

These incidents are only those which permeates through the censor of PLAAF.
(Cross posting from another thread)

 

[rajgoynar]

No, and China should never seek to achieve such 100% self sufficient.

The problem here is india is importing everything, while China is building most of its weapons.

it is also funny that whenever this issue is raised, indians start crying "your weapons are copied from russia/us". I am wondering if we fly J-11B over the sky of new delhi and start bombing your building, what kind of reaction we would get from indians? indians start protesting that China should attack india using weapons that have a clean copyright record?

problem in india , you are right because here everything is open like media, not like as china
whenever this issue is raised we are start crying, i think you are right because we have the 'freedom of expression' in india. not like as chinese which open mouth for eaten the food only.
and you are telling about bombing on new dehli,
best of luck for you and your airforce.

 

[rajgoynar]

wipe your A$$ first.

Has anyone heard of any PLAAF Air-craft crash? I think PLAAF maintains a tight lip strategy about it. I got following statistics in a forum about PLAAF plane crashes up to 2004. I am giving the forum link as well as the link of the Chinese news site where the source article was published ( you need to use a translator to read the original one). Seems they are also not far behind of India or Pakistan.

Forum link [Accident Report] PLAAF JH-7 accidents in China - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

original source ÖйúÕ½¶·»úʧʼǼ--ÖлªÍø--¾üÊÂƵµÀ





In the Chinese (China) news site china.com, an article dated 2005.05.25 at
http://military.china.com/zh_cn/bbs/.../12342296.html
has a list of PLA/PLAAF/PLAN accidents and crashes, in 1980 to 2004, in China.

Disclaimer: I don't know how real/unreal these are, or whether these are more science phantasy by China bashers, but I translate them for future comparison/verification anyway.

9 November 2004:
In Yun Nan Province, near Meng Zi, two J-7B collided.
44 Division, PLAAF.
Lead pilot martyred. Wingman pilot ejected.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very probably real.]

30 June 2004:
About 80 km from Wu Han City, a J-7B flew into a thunder storm, had problem, and crashed, while returning to base.
On the ground, one civilian killed, one civilian wounded. Two houses burnt.
Pilot ejected.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very probably real.]

2004:
In Liao Ning Province, a JJ-5 crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Yan Ji, a J-7E crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Chang Sha, A Su-30MKK crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Zun Hua, a J-8 crashed.

2004:
Near He Fei, a Su-30MK2 crashed.
Pilot(s) ejected.

18 October 2002:
A Z-9 violated disciplines, flew beyond the training area at very low altitude, flew into power lines, and crashed.
Four crew martyred.

12 July 2002:
A JJ-6 had engine problem and crashed.
Pilot(s) ejected.

27 May 2002:
A Su-30MKK crashed.
Two crew ejected.

March 2002:
At high altitude and high speed, a J-8B pilot had G-LOC. The aircraft oversped and disintegrated.
Pilot martyred.

27 September 2001:
At 10:45, in Cheng Du military district, Fu Shun County, Wan Shou Town, near Guang Rong Village, a CJ-6, number 61723, crashed into a mountain.
Cheng Du military district air force, PLAAF.
Pilot martyred, body located at 22:30.

August 2001:
A Su-30MKK had landing gear problem. To attempt to save the aircraft, pilots didn't eject. Crashed and exploded while landing.
3rd Division, PLAAF.
Two crew martyred.

July 2001:
In Inner Mongolia, desert region, a J-7B crashed.
7th Division, PLAAF.

2 June 2001:
A JJ-7 had bird strike and crashed.
Pilot(s) martyred.

12 April 2001:
A J-7M had bird strike and crashed, while taking off.
3rd Test Flight Wing, PLAAF, based at Cheng Du.
Pilot martyred.

11 April 2001:
A Q-5 stalled and crashed.
28th Division, PLAAF.

1 April 2001:
A J-8B, number 81097, and an USN EP-3E collided, and the J-8B crashed.
9th Division, PLAN, based at Ling Shui AB, Hai Nan Province.
Major WANG Wei martyred.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very real.]

1 April 2001:
A J-7B, number 30901, had bird strike and crashed, while taking off.
19th Division, PLAAF, based at Nan Yang AB, He Nan Province.
Pilot, a wing deputy commander, martyred.

31 March 2001:
A J-7E crashed, because engine turbine blade flew out.

2 February 2001:
A Su-27 had lubricant ventilator cracked, lubricant steam leaked, and caught fire. Aircraft crashed while landing.
19th Division, PLAAF, based at Ji Nan AB, Shan Dong Province.
Pilot martyred.

4 January 2001:
In He Nan Province, at Zheng Zhou AB, two Y-8, number 31242 and 31243, crashed while landing, because of icing on tail wings.
13th Division, PLAAF.
12 crew martyred.
One aircraft crashed into civilian house(s), killed six more and wounded two more.

19 September 2000:
A Y-7, number 3418, crashed while landing.
All crew martyred.

August 2000:
In Chong Qing, a Su-27UBK had fuel pipe cracked and exploded in mid-air.
33rd Division, PLAAF.
Pilot WU Xin and instructor pilot LIN Ling martyred.

28 March 2000:
In Jiang Xi Province, a J-7E had mechanical problem, lost control, and crashed.
14th Division, PLAAF, based at Zhang Shu AB, Jiang Xi Province.
Pilot martyred.

November 1999:
In Cheng Du military district, during an exercise, three J-7E launched missiles and shot down each other.
Pilots martyred.
[IMO, this is too strange to be true.]

1 April 1999:
A JJ-6 had mechanical problem and crashed.
Pilot ejected.

30 March 1999:
A Q-5C had secondary wings connections left-right reversed. During take-off, it slanted off the runway to the left and inverted.
Pilot martyred.
[I think "secondary wings" means "ailerons"?]

19 February 1999:
A H-6, while landing, hopped and crashed.
All crew martyred. A H-6 usually has six crew.

18 November 1998:
A J-7 had engine compressor cracked and crashed.
Pilot ejected.

22 October 1998:
A JJ-7, while practising take-off and landing, couldn't lower its left landing gear.
Pilot(s) ejected.

October 1998:
A J-7L trainer crashed into a mountain.
Pilot martyred.

15 September 1998:
In Tian Jin, near Yang Cun, a Ba Yi J-7EB, number 10, was looping at low altitude, stalled, and crashed.
The Ba Yi is the PLAAF air demo team.
Pilot YANG Sheng Li martyred.

25 August 1998:
A JJ-6 was test-running on the ground, engine caught fire, and burnt out.

21 July 1998:
A J-6 had engine problem and crashed while taking off.
Pilot martyred.

May 1998:
A Su-27SK, number 13, disintegrated in mid-air, because of careless ground checks and pilot's manoeuvring.
Based at Wu Hu AB, An Hui Province.
Pilot CHEN Li Ming martyred.

27 April 1998:
Two J-7D collided and crashed, during night training mission.
29th Division, PLAAF, based at Qu Zhou AB, Zhe Jiang Province.
Lead (number 25106) pilot ejected. Wingman (25007) pilot martyred.

27 February 1998:
A Z-11 flew onto the ground because of pilot error, during low altitude test flight.
Crew not wounded.

17 February 1998:
A JJ-6 took off, engine caught fire, and crashed.
Two crew martyred.

12 November 1997:
At Sui Xi AB, two SU-27SK took off, collided, and crashed.

6 November 1997:
A Su-27 engine flamed out and crashed.

10 October 1997:
A JJ-6 flew into power lines and crashed.
Two crew martyred.

23 August 1997:
A JJ-7 had bird strike, while taking off for night traning sortie.
Pilot(s) ejected.

August 1997:
In Chong Qing, a 33rd Division, PLAAF, J-8B and a Y-6 collided while landing.
J-8B pilot ejected.
Y-6 four crew martyred. Y-6 was carrying 20 air-launched bombs.

14 July 1997:
Two J-7 crashed while landing in poor weather.
Two pilots martyed.

May 1997:
A Su-27SMK [sic] crashed into a mountain, because novice pilot unfamiliar with night training.
Based at Sui Xi AB.
Pilot LIN Zhi martyred.

January 1997:
In Gui Lin control area, a J-7 crashed.
2nd Division, PLAAF.

November 1996:
Two J-8B, number 81295 and 81186, crashed.
PLAN, based at Ling Shui AB, Hai Nan Province.
Pilots WANG Fang and LI Ming martyred.

27 November 1996:
In Si Chuan Province, two Su-27UBK collided while flying close formation, after lead aircraft engine flamed out.

13 October 1996:
A J-6 had both engines sputtered and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

11 June 1996:
A J-6 flew into a spiral and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

April 1996:
In Hu Bei Province, at Yi Chang AB, a Su-27SK crashed while landing.

24 June 1994:
A flight of two JJ-6 flew into a thunder storm, attempted and failed emergency landings.

10 June 1994:
A H-5 had compass malfunction, got lost, bingo fuel, and failed emergency landing.
Crew martyred.

23 April 1992:
A J-6 crashed, because of pilot error.
Pilot ejected.

22 July 1988:
A J-6 crashed.
Pilot martyred.

21 July 1987:
A J-6 had engine flame-out and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

16 September 1984:
A J-6 crashed, because of pilot error.
Pilot martyred.

29 March 1980:
A J-6 crashed into a mountain while landing.
Pilot martyred.

These incidents are only those which permeates through the censor of PLAAF.
(Cross posting from another thread)

very nice
but i think chinese will not talking about it.
because they have nature "everything should be hidden"

 

[black flame]

hey guys i just have one question i know its off topic
"Is there a minimum number of posts a member should have before starting a thread because i tried to start but it said my account didnot have the privilege to start a thread"
this was the error msg
"you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation."

 

[Choppers]

"Arjun-meets-performance-objectives",Team Waits For Army's Report​

The indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT) has "met all performance objectives" at the recent month-long trials in Rajasthan, according to sources who witnessed them. The Army's trial is expected to submit its report and findings latest by the end of this month. Despite what the Defence Ministry seems to be putting out, DRDO is confident that the game isn't over -- that the Army may still be prevailed upon to place an order for at least 176 more tanks. Watch this space.

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: "Arjun Meets Performance Objectives", Team Waits For Army's Report

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GR8 News,,,lets hope 4 d best

 

[razgriz19]

...now im very confused!!