Arjun News & Discussions

[fatman17]

you are exactly right sir .
i dont understand the changing requirements of indian army and air force .
does that also happen in pakistan .

we dont have that resource luxury - this is not to say that all pak projects are successful - so we are very very careful.

 

[LCA]

Sir most of the issues have been sorted out. Sarvatra bridges are developed specifically for arjun. Railways are capable of carrying arjun very much. Arjun ground pressure is lesser then T90. So it should be good in desert conditions. First there were issue regarding electronics not working properly in desert heat but that also is demonstrated.

Well I don't think that people are not aware of the requirements. The things are moving on in right direction only.

what is the ground pressure of arjun and T-90?

 

[nitesh]

what is the ground pressure of arjun and T-90?

Check these links:
Dissimilar Combat: Arjun MBT Vs T-90S specs | Frontier India Strategic and Defence - News, Analysis, Opinion - Aviation, Military, Commodity, Energy, Transportation, Conflict, Environment, Intelligence, Internal Security

India Today - India's most widely read magazine.

 

[Contrarian]

The point about Arjun was that an entirely new logistics trail would have to be created, while the T-90's share the logistics print of the T-72. So inducting 2 types of MBT's both of which will only last for 10-15 years more is foolishness. The future is unmanned MBT's. Thats where everyone is headed. Starting and investing on Arjun would be unncessary as in 15 years time, we would again have a new tank.

Though the IA is more than aware that T-90 does not have the kind of protection that Arjun has.

Thus, they are going to fit Active Protection Systems on the T-90's. The tender will be issued soon.

 

[indiatech]

MBT Arjun's new Defensive Aid System ready for tests.


The DRDO's Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) in Avadi, has taken up the development of a Defensive Aids System for armoured fighting vehicles (AFVs) to enhance the survivability of tanks against anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) threats and to reduce the probability of detection by target acquisition systems.

Under this project, two major systems -- an Advanced Laser Warning and Countermeasure System (ALWCS) and Mobile Camouflage System (MCS) are being developed. MCS is to provide multispectral signature management of the vehicle to reduce the vehicle signature against all known sensors and smart munitions. MCS system has been developed in collaboration with Barracuda Camouflage Ltd, Gurgaon. The system has been integrated on MBT Arjun and the performance evaluation trials have been successfully completed. The methodology and the technologies can be adopted for any AFV platform. ALWCS system comprises laser warning system, IR jammer, and aerosol smoke grenade system. This is being developed jointly with Elbit Systems Ltd, Israel. The system will be integrated on MBT Arjun and performance evaluation trials are expected during summer 2009.

 

[ejaz007]

Defensive Aid Systems for Arjun MBT Ready: DRDO
Dated 10/3/2009


The DRDO's Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) in Avadi, has taken up the development of a Defensive Aids System for armoured fighting vehicles (AFVs).

This is to enhance the survivability of tanks against anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) threats and to reduce the probability of detection by target acquisition systems.

Under this project, two major systems -- an Advanced Laser Warning and Countermeasure System (ALWCS) and Mobile Camouflage System (MCS) are being developed. MCS is to provide multispectral signature management of the vehicle to reduce the vehicle signature against all known sensors and smart munitions.

MCS system has been developed in collaboration with Barracuda Camouflage Ltd, Gurgaon. The system has been integrated on MBT Arjun and the performance evaluation trials have been successfully completed. The methodology and the technologies can be adopted for any AFV platform.

ALWCS system comprises laser warning system, IR jammer, and aerosol smoke grenade system. This is being developed jointly with Elbit Systems Ltd, Israel. The system will be integrated on MBT Arjun and performance evaluation trials are expected during summer 2009.

Defensive Aid Systems for Arjun MBT Ready: DRDO | India Defence

 

[Screaming Skull]

i have not read the posts in this thread but it is very clear than Arjun does not have a future with the Indian Army (read IA thread) - that is why IA has opted to purchase 1,300 T-90S tanks with specified upgrades to keep this tank comparable to contemporary MBTs available world-wide. This has become a "image and integrity" issue with indian scientists of DRDO whereas the Indian Armoured Corps Officers are very clear in their message.
Move on India....

The DRDO has been openly challenging IA for field trials of the Arjun vs T-90S since ages. Who do u think is the biggest gainer if Arjun does nt make it. It s Russia n its defence agencies. These guys have bribed the top guys of the IA n MOD responsible for MBT purchases. Else, how do u explain the purchase of T-90 even without field trials with comparable western MBTs let alone Arjun.

As far as the delays with Arjun n LCA are considered, one must understand that these systems are vastly superior to their initial design requirements. It s like starting with a T-72 n finally delivering a T-90 equivalent bypassing all the intermediate designs but keeping the project name same. Similarly, with LCA it s like starting off with a Mig-21 n finally delivering a Mig-29 equivalent (I just mean in terms of tech gap n not the comparability of LCA with Mig-29).

If one takes into account the time taken to develop a T-90 from base versions, I think DRDO has done much better than the Russians in developing the Arjun in 30 yrs with the funding allocated. Also, considering the fact that it was DRDO s first experience in developing MBT technology. Just wait for the field trials n u l see (T-90s could be another Bofors in the making. Dat s y everyone s hush hush bout it).

This is really not national pride that s doing the talking but there s lot more to defence purchases in India that meet the eye. There s so much vested interest frm all quarters that u really cant take things at face value. The media reporting these issues is not remotely qualified to speak abt these systems. They are accustomed to DRDO bashing on the basis of some Auditor general's official report that present plane facts. These are meant for guys who can actually make sense out of them n not the very simplistic media that compares the cost effectiveness of high tech sys like tomatoes n onions.

Please note one more thing, the fact that every one in the world knows about the status of these projects s bcoz of the high level of transparency in most defence projects. The public audit reports of most of DRDO projects are made public in India. Unfortunately, ppl dont realize that defence projects in China and even Pakistan are opaque. No one will know how much was spent on a Type-xyz of china or when an Al-Khalid was started (with no offence meant). These will just surface out of nowhere some day. None the wiser regarding the project duration or RnD cost etc.

Well these are just small pitfalls of democracy where one needs to atleast reveal to the tax payer how his money is being spent (whether he has any control over it is another ques!).

 

[LCA]

Welcome

DRDO scientists build a bridge with brains

Prasad Kulkarni | TNN

Pune: It’s the first such project in the world, claim scientists of the Research and Development Establishment (Engineers), a laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), Pune. The scientists are developing a lightweight, carbon fibre ‘smart’ bridge, which will be strong enough to hold a fully loaded battle tank.
“We have been working on the project for five years now and it has been successfully completed,” said Makarand Joshi, one of the scientists involved. The eight-member team includes scientists Giridhar Singh, Mayur Godbole, Rahul Harshe and technician Felix Barla, as well as other supporting staff.
“This is the only structure of its kind anywhere in the world,” he proclaimed. The only other bridge that could be compared to this is the one in the US. “That bridge is 13 meters long, but has been developed with the help of a private company,” he said. “The speciality of our bridge is that we have developed it entirely on our own. Our bridge is 5 metres long. We also plan to build a 24-metre bridge in the future.”
According to Joshi, part of the bridge is currently at the laboratory, while one part has been sent to the National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL), Bangalore, for testing. After testing both parts, the bridge will be joined together in the Pune laboratory. Thereafter, the test of whether the bridge will withstand a fully loaded battle tank will be carried out. This is most likely to take place in July, said Joshi.
The bridge is made of carbon-epoxy materials and is 30% lighter than aluminium. The cost of building the bridge is almost the same as that of an aluminium bridge, but the expenses occurred on maintenance of the carbon composite material bridge will be lower, said Joshi. The bridge weighs just 1.2 tonnes, but should be able to carry the load of a 70-tonne battle tank, he added.
Explaining why it was called a ‘smart’ bridge, scientist Mayur Godbole said, “This bridge can monitor itself. Fibre optic sensors have been embedded in the bridge to achieve this smartness. It can assess the weight/load on it and manage its durability accordingly. The bridge can also be operated by remote. There is no need to depute men at the bridge to monitor it.”



I think this will play a important role in the transportation of tanks like Arjun.

 

[heartwinlion]

Indian Army to test Israeli defensive system suite on battle tank

Report: Indian Army to test Israeli defensive system suite on battle tank_English_Xinhua

NEW DELHI, March 29 (Xinhua) -- The Indian Army will evaluate an advanced laser-based defensive suite designed by the Indian Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) in collaboration with Israel, on the Arjun battle tank this summer, reported the local daily The Tribune on Sunday.

Designated as the Advanced Laser Warning and Countermeasure System (ALWCS), the suite comprises a laser warning system, infra-red jammer and an aerosol smoke grenade system. The sensors of these systems are mounted on the front sides of the turret, said the report.

The purpose of ALWCS is to enhance survivability of armored vehicles against anti-tank guided missiles. Israel's Elbit Systems Limited which manufactures and integrates Israel's hi-tech defense electronic and electro-optic systems undertakes weapon upgrade projects for militaries throughout the world, and is DRDO's collaborating partner for ALWCS.

The Arjun battle tank, which is under development for the past 36 years, is scheduled to undergo comprehensive trials with the Russian-origin T-90 tanks in May-June. Moreover, last year's trials were not reported to be successful.

As part of Arjun's protection capability, DRDO's Adavi-based Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment has also developed a mobile camouflage system to provide multi-spectral signature management for reducing vehicle visual, thermal and radar signature against sensors and smart munitions.

 

[fatman17]

Arjun MBT prepares for potentially decisive trials

Rahul Bedi JDW Correspondent - New Delhi

Key Points
India's Arjun main battle tank is to undergo comparative trials involving proven Russian MBTs

The MoD could increase its Arjun order depending on the outcome of the trials, despite army opposition to procuring the long-delayed MBT

The Indian Army is readying the locally designed Arjun main battle tank (MBT) for combat manoeuvres in the western Rajasthan desert, due to start in May, in what is widely being interpreted as a showdown between the military and the tank's designer, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), over the system's future.

The Arjun, which the DRDO has been developing for nearly 37 years and which the army has consistently rejected because of performance issues, will also be put through comparative trials with the proven Russian T-72M1 and T-90S MBTs, which constitute the backbone of the country's armoured formations.

Two Arjun squadrons, or around 40-45 tanks, from the 43rd Armoured Regiment based at Suratgarh will conduct the trials, which are a prerequisite to the army formally clearing the Arjun for induction and determining its eventual operational role.

Depending on the outcome of the trials, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) will decide whether to build more than the 124 Arjuns ordered in 2000. Official sources told Jane's that the size of the order could double to around 250 units, enough to equip four regiments, thanks to the powerful DRDO lobby at the MoD.

The Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) at Avadi, southern India, has so far built around 80-90 of the 124 Arjuns on order, none of which have yet been inducted into the army.

However, armoured corps officers told Jane's that, irrespective of the trials' outcome, the army was determined to "move beyond" the Arjun, which it considers operationally inadequate.

Another argument cited against the Arjun is that 60 per cent of its components have to be imported. These include its German MTU 838 Ka-510 diesel engine connected to a German-built RENK semi-automatic transmission system, its fire-control and gun-control systems and numerous other components and subassemblies, all of which have added an estimated INR16 million (USD3.2 million) to the MBT's unit cost.

A year ago, India's Armoured Corps Directorate set up a dedicated task force to develop a Future MBT: an exercise that will take several years to complete.

Delays in the Arjun project and Pakistan's decision to purchase the T-80UD MBT from Ukraine in the mid-1990s prompted India to order 310 T-90S MBTs in 2001 and another 347 six years later. India plans to produce another 1,000 T-90Ss under licence once contractual issues with Russia over the technology transfer are resolved.

The army is also upgrading its T-72M1 fleet by equipping 950 of the tanks with full-solution thermal imaging fire-control systems and 750-800 with third-generation partial-solution thermal imaging standalone systems to achieve a night fighting capability, which the army currently lacks.

 

[BATMAN]

The Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) at Avadi, southern India, has so far built around 80-90 of the 124 Arjuns on order, none of which have yet been inducted into the army.

This is interesting; 90 prototypes !!!
I think this is an indication that comming trials would be more of political thing for the over hyped hindu pride. ARJUN...

 

[Hellfire]

This is interesting; 90 prototypes !!!
I think this is an indication that comming trials would be more of political thing for the over hyped hindu pride. ARJUN...

actually no Batman

The vehicle is indeed proving to be better than what it was in 2006. and there are more and more improvements being done. so the system may just be deployed now.

IA was resisting on mainly the problem of establishment of a whole new logistical base and support area, something which would have entailed massive expenditure. The GoI and MoD are willing to give additional funds for the same as the IA apprehension was on effect of diversion of funds would be on procurement policy of IA and subsequent delays of the same due to lack of adequate funds.

 

[Arsalan]

here is another article to help the members:

A last bid to save the Arjun main battle tank project
January 14th, 2009 - 3:29 pm ICT by IANS -
New Delhi, Jan 14 (IANS) The Indian Army will conduct head-to-head “comparative trials” of the indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT), under development for over three decades, and the Russian-built T-90 tanks in June. This is seen as a last desperate bid to save the Arjun project that has already cost the exchequer Rs.3.5 billion ($71.7 million). The Indian Army had hitherto been ambiguous on the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) demand that the Arjun tank, which India has been trying to manufacture indigenously for nearly 36 years, be assessed head-to-head with the T-90 tanks that the army currently operates.

“Any comparison or comments on the performance or reliability (between Arjun and T-90 tanks) can be made only after the Arjun undergoes comparative trials, which we intend to conduct in June this summer,” a senior army official told IANS.

The army has made it clear that it will buy no more than the 124 Arjuns it has contracted for because it is unhappy with the tank on various counts. This apart, the army says the Arjun can at best remain in service for five to 10 years while it is looking 20 years ahead and needs a futuristic MBT.

The DRDO demand for the comparative trials of the two tanks is being seen as a desperate bid to save the Arjun as it would need to manufacture at least 500 tanks to make the project feasible.

Drawing a comparison between the two tanks, DRDO says Arjun has a greater power-to-weight ratio, a hydro-pneumatic suspension system for a more comfortable ride, a stable platform to fire on the move and a superior fire control system.

“The Arjun costs Rs.168 million while the T-90 costs around Rs.120 million. But, then, the Arjun compares favourably with contemporary western MBTs of its class that cost in the range of Rs.170 to 240 million,” a DRDO official said.

However, experts see the Arjun tank as complete disaster.

“The Arjun tank is cumbersome for strategic movement, i.e. to be taken from one sector to another. It is too wide and too heavy to be moved in the railway carriages that we have in India. The comparative trials are just an eyewash as Arjun is incomparable to T-90,” said strategic analyst, retired Lt. Col. Anil Bhat.

The army had last year told a key parliamentary panel that the Arjun failed to deliver at the winter trials conducted in the Rajasthan desert in 2007. The army said that many improvements would have to be carried out before it was satisfied with the tank.

It listed various defects, including a deficient engine and fire control system, inaccurate guns, low speeds in tactical areas - principally the desert - and the tank’s inability to operate in temperatures above 50 degrees Celsius.

The Indian Army laid down its qualitative requirement (QR) for the Arjun in 1972. In 1982, it was announced that the prototype was ready for field trials. However, the tank was publicly unveiled for the first time only in 1995.

Arjun was originally meant to be a 40-tonne tank with a 105 mm gun. It has now grown to a 50-tonne tank with a 120 mm gun. The tank was meant to supplement and eventually replace the Soviet-era T-72 MBT that was first inducted in the early 1980s.

However, delays in the Arjun project and Pakistan’s decision to purchase the T-80 from Ukraine, prompted India to order 310 T-90s, an upgraded version of the T-72, in 2001.

A last bid to save the Arjun main battle tank project

this same article can be found on
http://blog.taragana.com/n/a-last-bid-to-save-the-arjun-main-battle-tank-project-3487/

 

[Arsalan]

also hav a look at wikipedia:

Arjun (tank) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

though said to be a bit un reliabe, but this article about the arjun says it all.

if you people need to have more of it, you may tell me and i can give you more links about the actual story of arjun!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

another one i would love to add

India's defence minister backs Arjun tank project, PROGRAMME UPDATE


Indian Defence Minister A K Antony rejected claims on 6 May that the serial production of India's indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT) project should be scrapped.


Last month a parliamentary committee found that the tank, which has been under development for more than 30 years, had performed poorly in recent trials and had experienced a number of engine failures.

janes mag
India's defence minister backs Arjun tank project - Jane's Defence Industry