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Arjun News & Discussions

The IA is increasingly getting polarized on the Arjun issue.

It does look like as though the pro-Arjun faction is gaining strength day by day.

Arjun won't be ignored by the IA; the implications of such a move would be huge.

Plus, its a significant improvement over the T-90/72s that the IA is used to.

Well I have few worlds with Army Insiders they have told me that Arjun is Very Good tank and in fact it is good accuracy while on move which not their in Russian Tanks and its Armour is very good but only disadvantage is that is heavy.

Most of the Problems is being rectified. But due to Russian lobby its getting delayed....They Dont that becasue they will loose Indan $$$$$
 
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The IA is increasingly getting polarized on the Arjun issue.

It does look like as though the pro-Arjun faction is gaining strength day by day.

Arjun won't be ignored by the IA; the implications of such a move would be huge.

Plus, its a significant improvement over the T-90/72s that the IA is used to.

Some one should pick up the pieces and show some Advantages and Disadvantage, last year when I was debating on the Arjun, the DRDO was to induct it on full scale what is going on.
 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/I...44,curpg-2.cms
No more Arjuns for Indian Army
5 Jul 2008, 1540 hrs IST,PTI

NEW DELHI: As doubts over viability of the three-decade-old Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) are being raised, the Army has indicated it would place no more orders than 124 already made to Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, sounding the death knell of the DRDO project.

"Army will no more place orders for Arjun beyond 124 that was already contracted. That is because Army is now looking 20 years ahead and wants a futuristic MBT," Lt Gen Dalip Bharadwaj, Army Director General (Mechanised Infantry), said here.

Though Bharadwaj discounted suggestions that it would mean the end of DRDO's Arjun project that began in 1972, he did point out induction of more Arjun MBTs at this stage would only mean India lagging behind in the technological race in armoured fighting vehicles.

"Arjun is a contemporary tank and may be used in the next decade or so, but not for a technologically advanced, next generation warfare some two decades hence," Bhardwaj said on the sidelines of an interactive session with defence private industry at CII.

After 36 years into its design and development, Arjun had as recently as in December 2007 failed winter trials, as stated in a Parliamentary report. It is yet to go through crucial comparative trials with Russian tanks, a mandatory process before induction into Army.

With uncertainty looming over Arjun tanks, Army has already increased its orders for Russian T-90 tanks by another 330 last year, over and above the 1000 it had ordered, clearly indicating T-90s would be the MBT of Indian Army for the next decade.

Chennai-based Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) had last year handed over 14 Arjuns to the Army for trials, but they were returned with a list of defects in its fire control systems, inaccuracy of guns, low speeds in tactical areas such as deserts and inability to operate in temperatures above 50 degrees Celsius.

This summer too Army and the DRDO took out Arjuns for trials, but the results were yet to be made public. Meanwhile, the Defence Ministry claimed it suspected an effort at "sabotaging" Arjun tanks, though reasons for the suspicion were not spelt out by Minister of State for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh.

The DRDO's new project 'Tank-X' too did not find favour with the Army. "Tank-X is a hybrid of T-90 and T-72, which are both contemporary technology tanks. There is no point in having technologically obsolete tanks for warfare two decades hence," the DG (Mechanised Forces) said.

Bharadwaj also announced that the Army, along with CII, would organise a two-day international technology seminar on Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) and Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) here on July 22 and 23 to discuss global challenges in designing, developing and producing FMBT and FICV.

To be inaugurated by Defence Minister A K Antony and Rao Inderjit Singh, Bhardwaj said the seminar would debate the kind of MBT Army needed, considering that might of the military was judged by both deterrent and offensive capabilities of Mechanised Forces and on the quality and quantity of equipment.

"Time has come to reassess our requirements. We are at the threshold of formulating qualitative requirements of FMBT and FICV. This is the future, as it takes about a decade for completing the process of designing and being ready with a prototype of FMBT and FICV. It could take another 5 to 10 years to finally induct futuristic MBTs and ICVs into the forces," he said.

The meeting would also provide defence planners, end-users, scientists and both private and public defence manufacturers a holistic view of applicability of tanks, be they heavy, medium or light, and wheeled or tracked in modern warfare.

"Considering India's expanding strategic reach and widening global standing as a military power, future armoured vehicles should be capable of performing roles during out-of-area contingencies beyond its territorial boundaries," Bharadwaj said.

The meet would also try to provide defence industry an insight into Mechanised Forces' aspirations and try to gauge their capability to meet Army's future requirements.

Apart from looking at varying global perceptions on use of armoured vehicles, the seminar would identify critical emerging technologies in the field to meet Army's requirements of FMBT and FICV.

Already, seven foreign countries have confirmed their participation in the seminar including US, Israel, Russia, Germany, UK and France.
 
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What I do not understand is if the Arjun isn't the future, then what is? The one thousand odd T-90s?
 
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No more Arjuns for Indian Army
5 Jul 2008, 1540 hrs IST,PTI

"Considering India's expanding strategic reach and widening global standing as a military power, future armoured vehicles should be capable of performing roles during out-of-area contingencies beyond its territorial boundaries," Bharadwaj said.

So finally Indian army is looking for postings outside India also.
 
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What I do not understand is if the Arjun isn't the future, then what is? The one thousand odd T-90s?

One generation has lived through the trauma of the Vijayanta..do we want to create another Vijayanta for to keep the next generation occupied ?

It must not be forced upon Cavalrymen unless they accept it.
 
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One generation has lived through the trauma of the Vijayanta..do we want to create another Vijayanta for to keep the next generation occupied ?

It must not be forced upon Cavalrymen unless they accept it.

No offense sir, but why is it that the Army is rejecting the Arjun? I'm serious here for I do not know the answer... the news has been quiet contradictory and confusing.

I don't see logic here and hence my statement; I"ll be glad if anyone could clarify me doubt.
 
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No offense sir, but why is it that the Army is rejecting the Arjun? I'm serious here for I do not know the answer... the news has been quiet contradictory and confusing.

I don't see logic here and hence my statement; I"ll be glad if anyone could clarify me doubt.

Your point is correct, the news is very confusing, but overall it looks like army is thinking that till next decade T90 will fit in there doctrine according to the threats they will be facing. Another issue is that Army wants to bulk up the numbers. so 330 made in russia and 1000 built in India will suffice the needs. So, they might be thinking why not use the arjun experience in to building something new. Check these links, seems there is nothing new in not placing orders for more then 124 tanks. More of media twisting the news:
 
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Indian Army Will Not Order More Than 124 Arjun MBT
Dated 6/7/2008

The Indian Army has indicated it would place no more orders than 124 already made to Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, sounding the death knell of the DRDO project. "Army will no more place orders for Arjun beyond 124 that was already contracted. That is because Army is now looking 20 years ahead and wants a futuristic MBT," Lt Gen Dalip Bharadwaj, Army Director General (Mechanised Infantry), said here.

Though Bharadwaj discounted suggestions that it would mean the end of DRDO's Arjun project that began in 1972, he did point out induction of more Arjun MBTs at this stage would only mean India lagging behind in the technological race in armored fighting vehicles. "Arjun is a contemporary tank and may be used in the next decade or so, but not for a technologically advanced, next generation warfare some two decades hence," Bhardwaj said on the sidelines of an interactive session with defence private industry at CII.

After 36 years into its design and development, Arjun had as recently as in December 2007 failed winter trials, as stated in a Parliamentary report. It is yet to go through crucial comparative trials with Russian tanks, a mandatory process before induction into Army. With uncertainty looming over Arjun tanks, Army has already increased its orders for Russian T-90 tanks by another 330 last year, over and above the 1000 it had ordered, clearly indicating T-90s would be the MBT of Indian Army for the next decade.

Chennai-based Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) had last year handed over 14 Arjuns to the Army for trials, but they were returned with a list of defects in its fire control systems, inaccuracy of guns, low speeds in tactical areas such as deserts and inability to operate in temperatures above 50 degrees Celsius. This summer too Army and the DRDO took out Arjun MBTs for trials, but the results were yet to be made public. Meanwhile, the Defence Ministry claimed it suspected an effort at "sabotaging" Arjun tanks, though reasons for the suspicion were not spelt out by Minister of State for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh.
The DRDO's new project 'Tank-X' too did not find favor with the Army. "Tank-X is a hybrid of T-90 and T-72, which are both contemporary technology tanks. There is no point in having technologically obsolete tanks for warfare two decades hence," the DG (Mechanized Forces) said.

Bharadwaj also announced that the Army, along with CII, would organize a two-day international technology seminar on Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) and Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) here on July 22 and 23 to discuss global challenges in designing, developing and producing FMBT and FICV. To be inaugurated by Defence Minister A K Antony and Rao Inderjit Singh, Bhardwaj said the seminar would debate the kind of MBT Army needed, considering that might of the military was judged by both deterrent and offensive capabilities of Mechanized Forces and on the quality and quantity of equipment.

"Time has come to reassess our requirements. We are at the threshold of formulating qualitative requirements of FMBT and FICV. This is the future, as it takes about a decade for completing the process of designing and being ready with a prototype of FMBT and FICV. It could take another 5 to 10 years to finally induct futuristic MBTs and ICVs into the forces," he said. The meeting would also provide defence planners, end-users, scientists and both private and public defence manufacturers a holistic view of applicability of tanks, be they heavy, medium or light, and wheeled or tracked in modern warfare.

"Considering India's expanding strategic reach and widening global standing as a military power, future armored vehicles should be capable of performing roles during out-of-area contingencies beyond its territorial boundaries," Bharadwaj said. The meet would also try to provide defence industry an insight into Mechanized Forces' aspirations and try to gauge their capability to meet Army's future requirements.

Apart from looking at varying global perceptions on use of armored vehicles, the seminar would identify critical emerging technologies in the field to meet Army's requirements of FMBT and FICV. Already, seven foreign countries have confirmed their participation in the seminar including US, Israel, Russia, Germany, UK and France.

Indian Army Will Not Order More Than 124 Arjun MBT | India Defence
 
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looks like we will se more twists and turns in Arjun saga, it is not going to end soon.

LiveFist: Exclusive: Faced with stubborn Army, DRDO hunts for third party quality inspector for Arjun MBT

MONDAY, JULY 07, 2008

Exclusive: Faced with stubborn Army, DRDO hunts for third party quality inspector for Arjun MBT
It's been a sombre week for the Arjun main battle tank. Last week, the Army's DG Mechanised Forces Lt Gen Dalip Bharadwaj said that the Army would place no further orders beyond the 124 already indented for with the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) at Avadi. That alone has been the cherry on top for a morbid quarter for the tank programme. The Army is still stubbornly resistant to comparative trials of the Arjun with the T-90 and T-72. And earlier this year, the tank's gearbox failed during accelerated usage cum reliability trials at Pokhran. It now appears that the DRDO has lost faith in the Army as well.

According to my sources at Avadi, the CVRDE is now scouting for a "third party quality assurance agency" to undertake the inspection and quality assurance of the manufacture of the running gear, hydro-pneumatic suspension and track adjuster, manufactured by BEML, Kirloskar Pneumatic Company (KPC) Limited and KGF respectively.

Currently, CVRDE is the "inspecting authority" of all tanks produced by HVF. But it appears convinced that an outside certificate of approval is now necessary as a last ditch effort to persuade an obstinate Army. The agency will be identified by next month following a tender process -- the agency can be Indian or foreign.

The uproar over Arjun continues limitlessly, but one thing is clear. There is still no clear logic from the Army about why it refuses to conduct the promised comparative trials of the Arjun with the two Russian types. Enough has been said about the rationale, so I won't say more, though the clamour has gotten louder, and it's making the Army (or at least some of its generals) look like it's/they've got something to hide.
 
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looks like we will se more twists and turns in Arjun saga, it is not going to end soon.

LiveFist: Exclusive: Faced with stubborn Army, DRDO hunts for third party quality inspector for Arjun MBT

MONDAY, JULY 07, 2008

Exclusive: Faced with stubborn Army, DRDO hunts for third party quality inspector for Arjun MBT
It's been a sombre week for the Arjun main battle tank. Last week, the Army's DG Mechanised Forces Lt Gen Dalip Bharadwaj said that the Army would place no further orders beyond the 124 already indented for with the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) at Avadi. That alone has been the cherry on top for a morbid quarter for the tank programme. The Army is still stubbornly resistant to comparative trials of the Arjun with the T-90 and T-72. And earlier this year, the tank's gearbox failed during accelerated usage cum reliability trials at Pokhran. It now appears that the DRDO has lost faith in the Army as well.

According to my sources at Avadi, the CVRDE is now scouting for a "third party quality assurance agency" to undertake the inspection and quality assurance of the manufacture of the running gear, hydro-pneumatic suspension and track adjuster, manufactured by BEML, Kirloskar Pneumatic Company (KPC) Limited and KGF respectively.

Currently, CVRDE is the "inspecting authority" of all tanks produced by HVF. But it appears convinced that an outside certificate of approval is now necessary as a last ditch effort to persuade an obstinate Army. The agency will be identified by next month following a tender process -- the agency can be Indian or foreign.

The uproar over Arjun continues limitlessly, but one thing is clear. There is still no clear logic from the Army about why it refuses to conduct the promised comparative trials of the Arjun with the two Russian types. Enough has been said about the rationale, so I won't say more, though the clamour has gotten louder, and it's making the Army (or at least some of its generals) look like it's/they've got something to hide.


Who is the author of these pearls of wisdom ?
 
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looks like we will se more twists and turns in Arjun saga, it is not going to end soon.

LiveFist: Exclusive: Faced with stubborn Army, DRDO hunts for third party quality inspector for Arjun MBT

MONDAY, JULY 07, 2008

Exclusive: Faced with stubborn Army, DRDO hunts for third party quality inspector for Arjun MBT
It's been a sombre week for the Arjun main battle tank. Last week, the Army's DG Mechanised Forces Lt Gen Dalip Bharadwaj said that the Army would place no further orders beyond the 124 already indented for with the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) at Avadi. That alone has been the cherry on top for a morbid quarter for the tank programme. The Army is still stubbornly resistant to comparative trials of the Arjun with the T-90 and T-72. And earlier this year, the tank's gearbox failed during accelerated usage cum reliability trials at Pokhran. It now appears that the DRDO has lost faith in the Army as well.

According to my sources at Avadi, the CVRDE is now scouting for a "third party quality assurance agency" to undertake the inspection and quality assurance of the manufacture of the running gear, hydro-pneumatic suspension and track adjuster, manufactured by BEML, Kirloskar Pneumatic Company (KPC) Limited and KGF respectively.

Currently, CVRDE is the "inspecting authority" of all tanks produced by HVF. But it appears convinced that an outside certificate of approval is now necessary as a last ditch effort to persuade an obstinate Army. The agency will be identified by next month following a tender process -- the agency can be Indian or foreign.

The uproar over Arjun continues limitlessly, but one thing is clear. There is still no clear logic from the Army about why it refuses to conduct the promised comparative trials of the Arjun with the two Russian types. Enough has been said about the rationale, so I won't say more, though the clamour has gotten louder, and it's making the Army (or at least some of its generals) look like it's/they've got something to hide.

The Boffins are trying to sell a lemon. The stand taken by the army is correct.
 
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The Boffins are trying to sell a lemon. The stand taken by the army is correct.

Both sides are correct on there sides. But agree with you as the end user is army and if they are not satisfied in the current form, better start working on MarkII as they are not averse of that idea. So overall the project is not a failure, as it is being portrayed by media. Or use the expertise developed with some international partner to make a new generation of tank. may be we will have some clear idea after 23rd july.
 
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Just a question here. If army is unwilling to accept any more Arjuns, why does DRDO forces them too. I mean they can export the tank in the international market and if DRDO is able to satisfy its international customers, it will not only generate valuable amount of revenue for the DRDO to continue its research but also it will prove the indian army wrong in their decision about not inducting the tank in large numbers.
 
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