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Arjun News & Discussions

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India’s indigenous Arjun tank project began in 1974, and originally aimed to replace the Russian T-54 and T-72 tanks which made up the bulk of that country’s armored firepower. As has often been the case in India, its DRDO government weapons development agency sought an entirely made in India solution, even though this would require major advances on a number of fronts for Indian industry. As has often been the case in India, the result was a long and checkered history filled with development delays, performance issues, mid-project specifications changes by India’s military, and the eventual purchase of both foreign substitutions within the project (now 58% of the tank’s cost) and foreign competitors from outside it (the T-90S).

As of July 2008, the 58.5 tonne Arjun tank still hasn’t been fielded with the Indian Army. In contrast, Pakistan’s much more time-limited, scope-limited, and budget conscious approach in developing and successfully fielding its T-80UD “Al-Khalid” tank is often cited by Arjun’s detractors.

Now reports from India indicate that the Russian T-90S will form the mainstay of its future force, despite that tank’s performance issues in hot weather. At the same time, the Indian Army wants to cap production of indigenous Arjun tanks…
Production of the Arjun will be capped at the already-committed total of 124 vehicles. Instead, development will begin on a new next-generation tank, which will be able to serve the Indian Army over the next 20-30 years.

Opinion in India appears to be sharply split. Many observers are citing this as the final failure that will close the book on a failed project. Other are noting the problems with the T-90s, and the Army’s refusal to conduct side-by-side tests, alongside recent test successes that are earning the Arun some military fans.

DRDO has made allegation of sabotage involving the Arjun’s engine, and insists that a 500 vehicle order will give it the volume needed to iron out all production difficulties and provide a platform for future development. In contrast, the Army’s plan calls for 1,657 T-90S “Bhishma” tanks at about 12 crore (currently $2.78 million) each if prices remain stable, about 1,000 of which are slated to be built in India. They will be joined by just 124 Arjuns at about 16.8 crore (currently $3.92 million) each, as well as 692 older T-72 tanks upgraded to the T-72M1 “Ajeya” standard.

See also: Jane’s | Times of India | Indian Business Standard (pro) | Hindustan Times | domain-B | Thaindian News | Thaindian News (re: sabotage) |
Business Standard (April, pro) | Rediff (April, pro).
India Plans to Cap Arjun Tank Production
 
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No other country in the world is inducting futuristic tanks that would last for 20 years.
I really dont understand what the Indian meahanised forces are expecting ?

Btw, Arjun and Al-khalid are completely in a differnt class and cannot be compaired.
Al-khalid and T-90 can be compaired.

In desert warware, Arjun is more lethal than T-90.
I think even if IA orders 300 Arjuns, CVRDE can come up with Arjun Mark II by then and then continue with the production of Mark II tanks.

Take Dhruv, initially it had lot of problems, but now production lines have stablized.
 
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Interesting Article..must read for those interested in Arjun.

The weight of the Arjun MBT is incidental to the Indian Army General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR). Arjun Tank weight arises due to the systems and protection levels as monitored by the Vice Chiefs of Army Staff right from the project inception. Since Arjun Tank project was initiated to match the current western MBT’s, naturally, the Arjun MBT weight will also match them.

Some senior Indian army officers have the opinion that the Arjun is too heavy for bridges on Indian western border and for the bridging equipment held by the Indian Army Corps of Engineers. We need to look at the Arjun MBT weight issue in a broader perspective, at the entirety of reasons and implications. It has to be analyzed based on tactical and strategic mobility of the Arjun Tank.

India busted the myth of the Patton’s in 1965, with Centurions Mk VII which weighed close to 52t. In 35 years gone by, Indian infrastructural woes has caught up with Arjun Tanks too, in addition to not being able to run heavier cost efficient big trucks on the roads and bridges. In comparission to Centurions Mk VII, the Arjun Tank is a mere 7 ton heavier. As the China builds “otherwise” impossible rail and road networks on Indian border to counter a future threat, India has not bothered to make infrastructural improvements to take on current threats.

The Arjun MBT is the heaviest tank in our inventory, but that is not a reflection of its agility and gradability. Being powered with a 1400 HP engine, its HP / t ratio is 23.9 which is substantially better than 20.4 of the BMP which is its combat support.

Arjun MBT has a bigger track-print, hence, its Nominal Ground Pressure is only 0.84 kg/cm2 which compares well with other MBTs of the world . Further, with a combination of low NGP and high power / weight ratio, it has commendable going ability. The proof being Arjun MBT crossing the Ravi at Lassian, without any engineer support, whatsoever and it has crossed numerous patches of marshy terrain which are marked ‘non-tankable’ in going maps of the Gurdaspur-Pathankot sector.

MBT Arjun is broader and heavier than other tanks in our fleet, resulting in special, but not insurmountable, difficulties in transportation. During the last 15 years, various prototypes of Arjun MBT has been moved for trials to various sectors, by both, rail and road, by existing means of transportation, albeit with adhoc expedients, but without facing any serious difficulties.

The existing BWTA wagons have pay load capacity of 60+ tons ; the Arjun weighs 58.5 tons. The only issue is that the width of the tank is more than that of the flat and so, the tracks protrude on both sides. A six inch wooden sleepers when placed on the floor of the wagons before loading the Arjun MBT ensures that the tank tracks move over adjacent platforms without fouling with them. With this arrangement Arjun MBT’s were moved as class ‘A’ ODC on Chennai-Delhi, Delhi-Suratgarh, Delhi-Jaiselmer, Chennai-Balasore and Balasore-Delhi lines, on several occasions.

In addition, Ministry of Railways, RDSO, Lucknow were approached in 1992 to conduct a feasibility study for rail transportation of MBT Arjun. The study was based on a two pronged approach i.e. design of a new wagon and modification of existing BWTA wagon. The feasibility report was submitted along with all-India broad gauge railway maps showing sectors where the loaded wagon could move as class ‘A’ ODC and the empty wagon could be run as non-ODC. In consonance, the Army HQ, Q Move (Rail) approved both proposals. The RITES / Texmaco team has delivered prototypes of the new wagon for field trials in 2006, it has been proposed that the case for modification to existing BWTA wagons be foreclosed because the population of the new rail wagons can comfortably match the production schedule of the Arjun MBT.

On a number of occasions, the Arjuns has been ferried over long distances, on BEML P-80 trailers towed by Tatra Tractors. Of course, in this case also, the tracks of the tank protrude on either side of the P-80 mount, but that is so with even other tanks like T-90S and T-72’s in Indian Army fleet.

In December 1994 the DGST sent a copy of their Draft GSQR 636 for a 65 ton trailer to BEML Bangalore who, in turn, have issued their specification for the new trailer which is to be towed by BEML-Tatra T815 VTI 8×8 tractor which is already in service.

CVRDE has successfully designed and proven a scissors type 20m, cl 60 BLT (christened Kartik) on the Vijayanta chassis. Another scissors type bridge layer of MLC 70 has been built on the T-72 hull and this also spans 20m. The latest on the anvil is the Arjun BLT with a sliding MLC 70 bridge and a span of 24m. That constitutes substantial initiative and homework on the part of DRDO for trafficability of the Arjun and any other heavy vehicles / equipment.

It is true that assault bridging equipment are scarce but are a number of bridging equipment over which Arjuns can traverse without risk. These include the PMP / PMS, MGB, MLAB, Sarvatra, CEASE (60) and the KM (wet type).

The issue of “Civil Bridges Over Defence Oriented Canals” is a painfull episode for the simple reason that, when India built ‘defence oriented canals’, we ought to have also planned ‘defence oriented bridges’ on them. Alternatively, we should have upgraded them in requisite sectors which, in any case, is imperative now. It would be quixotic to propose a solution by seeking reduction of the weight of the Arjun to suit vintage bridges!

There have been proposals of purning the Arjun MBT weight. Even Indian Army’s opinion is divided over this new, trivial issue which may be referred, perhaps more aptly, as a ‘non-issue’. Yet, in the din which accrues from the gambit of dissent and the consequent ‘unfounded fear of non-acceptance’, panic-driven designers and a section of supporting Users have jointly undertaken a weight reduction exercise !

Several areas of the tank have been identified and targeted for reductions ranging from a couple of hundred kgs to just a few hundred grams! In ultimate judgement, if the cumulative loss is not going to change the bridge classification of the Arjun, the whole effort will have been rendered futile. All attempts at weight reduction must be made conditional, in that, there will be no trade-offs with some other parameters such as levels of protection, structural strength, life expectancy of alternate materials and the ease of handling and maintenance.

The Arjun excels the specifics for self-propulsion stated in the GSQR. As for transportation and bridging are concerned, no one in the world designs tanks to suit these means. Instead, civil and military bridges, and the means of rail / road transportation are upgraded to suit new tanks. If Indian Army has problems with the bridges on the defensive canals or assault bridging equipment, its Indian Army’s fault.
 
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No other country in the world is inducting futuristic tanks that would last for 20 years.
I really dont understand what the Indian meahanised forces are expecting ?

Btw, Arjun and Al-khalid are completely in a differnt class and cannot be compaired.
Al-khalid and T-90 can be compaired.

In desert warware, Arjun is more lethal than T-90.
I think even if IA orders 300 Arjuns, CVRDE can come up with Arjun Mark II by then and then continue with the production of Mark II tanks.

Take Dhruv, initially it had lot of problems, but now production lines have stablized.

Aurjun is indeed a good concept on papers...
failed in both 2007-08 winter-summer trails... same engine brake down problem... chipping in main barrel gun.. low accuracy etc... not my words but your army's report..

by the time Arjunk II shows up on drawing board... AK II would be inducted in big numbers... joint -pak-turk venture.... with of course western inputs..
 
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Aurjun is indeed a good concept on papers...
failed in both 2007-08 winter-summer trails... same engine brake down problem... chipping in main barrel gun.. low accuracy etc... not my words but your army's report..

by the time Arjunk II shows up on drawing board... AK II would be inducted in big numbers... joint -pak-turk venture.... with of course western inputs..

You must have read the summer trial report also na, because these are the latest trials.
 
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Can someone actually tell me the numbers inducted? I know there are 15 pre-production models. How many are ACTUALLY in use?
 
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Aurjun is indeed a good concept on papers...
failed in both 2007-08 winter-summer trails... same engine brake down problem... chipping in main barrel gun.. low accuracy etc... not my words but your army's report..

by the time Arjunk II shows up on drawing board... AK II would be inducted in big numbers... joint -pak-turk venture.... with of course western inputs..

Not inducting Arjun does not mean that Indian Army is not equiped with the latest tech.

pak al-khalids will have to face T-90 in the battle and not Arjun- I hope you have this in the back of your mind while you are so excited about arjun.
 
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When this arjun saga will end :)
» Indian Army rejects joint assessment of indigenous main battle tank - Thaindian News

July 20th, 2008 - 2:03 pm ICT by IANS - Email This Post Email This Post

By Ritu Sharma
New Delhi, July 20 (IANS)

In a desperate bid to save the main battle tank (MBT) Arjun it has developed, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) had suggested a joint assessment of the vehicle with the Indian Army to keep the project alive but this has been summarily rejected by the army. The army is also ambiguous on a suggestion by the DRDO that the tank be assessed head-to-head with the T-90 MBTs the army currently operates.

“Following the army’s adverse report on the tanks after winter trials last year, the DRDO had suggested a joint assessment be conducted but the army refused this outright,” a defence ministry official told IANS.

On its part, the Indian Army has made it clear that it will buy no more than the 124 Arjuns it has contracted for because it is unhappy with the tank on various counts. This apart, the army says the Arjun can at best remain in service for 5 to 10 years while it is looking 20 years ahead and needs a futuristic MBT.

The army had told a key parliamentary panel earlier this year that the Arjun, which has been in development for the last 36 years, failed to deliver at the winter trials conducted in the Rajasthan desert last year. The army said that many improvements would have to be carried out before it was satisfied with the tank.

Fourteen Arjun tanks were handed over to the Indian Army for user trials last year but were returned to the manufacturer - the Combat Vehicles Development Establishment - with a list of defects.

These included a deficient engine and fire control system, inaccuracy of its guns, low speeds in tactical areas - principally the desert - and the tank’s inability to operate in temperatures above 50 degrees Celsius.

Allegations of “sabotage” had surfaced after the winter trials.

“Following these reports, the DRDO sought a joint trial of Arjun and the T-90, but the army has not taken a clear stand on this,” the official said.

Drawing a comparison between the two tanks, DRDO says Arjun has a greater power-to-weight ratio, a hydro-pneumatic suspension for a more comfortable ride, a stable platform to fire on the move, and a superior fire control system.

“The Arjun costs Rs.168 million while the T-90 costs around Rs.120 million. But then, the Arjun compares favourably with contemporary western MBTs of its class that cost in the range of Rs.170 to 240 million,” a DRDO official said.

Minister of State for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh has also hinted at a conspiracy to “sabotage” the Arjun tank.

“The possibility of sabotage needs to be examined. The German engines fitted in the tanks were performing well for the past 15 years. I wonder what has happened to them overnight,” Singh had said in April, while commenting on the army’s assessment after the tank’s winter trials.

On its part, the army has rejected any suggestions of sabotage.

Arjun was meant to supplement and eventually replace the Soviet-era T-72 MBTs that were first inducted in the early 1980s.

However, delays in the Arjun project and Pakistan’s decision to purchase the T-80 from Ukraine prompted India to order 310 T-90s, an upgraded version of the T-72, in 2001.

Of these, 186 were assembled from kits at the Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi, near Chennai. An agreement was also signed for the licensed production of another 1,000 T-90s.

With the development of the Arjun delayed further, India last year signed a fresh contract with Russia to buy 330 more T-90s.
 
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On wikipedia there is a picture of the Abhay IFV what is the status of that project?
 
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On wikipedia there is a picture of the Abhay IFV what is the status of that project?

Abhay is mainly to replace BMP1, info about abhaj is here: Abhay Infantry Fighting Vehicle

Now IA is looking for FICV, check it:
BATTLESPACE - In this issue

INDIA TO DEVELOP FUTURE COMBAT VEHICLE TO REPLACE BMP-2
By Bulbul Singh

13 May 08. After successful development of the Infantry Combat Vehicle Abhay, India has decided to develop a Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) that it will replace the Russian-made BMP-2 combat vehicles with the Indian Army.

The FICV is being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation, DRDO. A senior DRDO scientist said that the broad specifications of the FICA include: Combat weight less than 20 tones, Power-to-weight ratio 25:1 hp/t, Amphibious capability, Potent fire power including 3rd Gen fire & forget Anti-Tank Guided Missile (ATGM), Main gun firing (Armored Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot) APFSDS and HE ammunition, directed energy weapon, Automatic Grenade Launcher and co-axial machine gun.
In addition the FICV will also have an IFDSS (Integrated fire detection and suppression system), Stealth features, Battle Field Management System and IFF and Defensive Aids Suite to protect against laser/thermal/radar guided munitions.

The FICV will also perform target acquisition, tracking, data, computation, and engagement control functions, primarily using electronic means assisted by electromechanical devices. Besides, it will provide fire-on-the-move, operate in various modes and will have dual-control through gunner and commander joysticks with override facility to commander.

The FICV will eventually replace the BMP-2 fleet. The Indian Army is presently equipped with around 1600 BMP-2 ICVs of Russian origin of 1980s Vintage.

To fill the technological gap of new generation the Programme 'ABHAY' was launched, to develop an Infantry Combat Vehicle as a technology demonstrator, incorporating a blend of state-of-the-art technologies with impressive fire power, excellent mobility and high degree of protection.

The programme commenced in 1998 and the Infantry Combat Vehicle has completed all tests as a technology demonstrator. Following the success of the Abhay technology demonstrator, DRDO has embarked upon a program to produce the FICV, still unnamed, adding that the FICV will eventually be based on the Abhay technical parameters.

The Abhay vehicle has a 550hp power pack with fully automatic transmission. Better ride comfort, exceptional cross country ride performance has been achieved by advance running gear system with hydrogas suspension. The composite armored hull and turret provides all round protection against small arms and frontal protection against 30 mm cannon. Abhay is equipped with 40mm cannon with twin missile launcher system.

The Indian army has already decided to procure the FICV engines from overseas. The new engine should be able to generate 350 to 380hp in object condition, easy to maintain and have long life. The new engine should be able to operate up to an ambient temperature of –30 degree Celsius to+ 55 degree Celsius.
The engine life should not be below 600 hours or 2250 kilometres and it should be able to operate in all types of terrain and weather conditions. Its weight should be less than 900 kilograms, said an Indian Army official.
 
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The Hindu : National : India, Russia plan to build futuristic MBT

India, Russia plan to build futuristic MBT

Vladimir Radyuhin

MOSCOW: Encouraged by the remarkable success of their pilot co-development defence project, the Brahmos missile, India and Russia are planning to design and build a futuristic main battle tank.

Defence industry experts will discuss the new project when a delegation of the Russian Uralvagonzavod (UVZ) tank-building factory visits India this week to participate in an international seminar on the Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) organised by the Army along with the Confederation of Indian Industry.

The two sides have already had preliminary discussions on the issue, according to UVZ Director General Nikolai Malykh.

“We put forward this idea [of a joint tank project] at the turn of the 21st century,” he told journalists in Moscow. “The Indian side has now come up with a similar proposal. We will take the first step when our experts go to India to attend a conference on the future tank and prospects for the tank-building industry.”

“The new tank will consolidate India’s edge over the Pakistani Army armed with Ukraine’s potent T-80 MBT and the Al-Khalid MBT built jointly with China and Ukraine,” Ruslan Pukhov, Director, Centre for Analysis and Technologies, said.

“Russia’s Uralvagonzavod would be the best partner for India in designing and building the new tank given a long history of its cooperation with the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi in the production of T-72 and T-90S MBTs.”

India has purchased over 1,600 T-90S MBTs built by the UVZ of which 1,000 will be manufactured at the Avadi plant.

The Indo-Russian MBT is likely to incorporate the best features of prototype tanks developed at Russia’s leading tank-building plants — UVZ and Omsk Transport Machine-Building Plant — which are now being merged into a single corporation.

According to the Moscow Defence Brief magazine, the new tank will mark a great step forward in armour technology. It will feature higher speed, better firepower, sophisticated armour protection and a low silhouette. An armour-protected crew compartment will be sealed from the unmanned turret equipped with an automatic loader.

The crew will be provided with a virtual-reality command information system linked to reconnaissance aircraft and will enjoy a smoother ride thanks to a new hydro-pneumatic suspension.

The new tank is likely to have a new main gun of up to 152 mm calibre and a new hunter-killer fire control system with target acquisition in optical, thermal, infrared and radar spectrums that will be accessible both to the gunner and tank commander, the Moscow Defence Brief said.
 
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http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=73&id=591056
India sets in motion plans to build futuristic tanks

NEW DELHI, JULY 22 (PTI)
To keep up with the trend amongst major powers, Indian army today set in motion the process of building a futuristic main battle tank (MBT), which will be inducted post 2020.

Army is visualising that the future tanks could be network operated sans the crew and has given the nod for framing general qualitative staff requirements (GQSR) for such a mean machine.

Plans for going in for such smart tanks and infantry combat vehicles were unveiled today at an international seminar on future MBTs, which was attended by the Defence Minister A K Antony and Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor.

"Next five years would see all aerial combat unmanned and the same process could take over the land systems in another 10 to 15 years," said Lt Gen Dilip Bhardawaj, Director General of the country's mechanised forces in his presentation.

Asked if a future tank would be an indigenous effort, the Defence Minister said the emphasis would be on building an inhouse tank but, at the same time, did not rule out the possibility of a "collaborative effort on technology sharing basis".

Antony was not forthcoming on whether plans to develop a new tank would sound a death knell for the country's maiden effort in producing Arjun main battle tank.

Though the Government has given the green signal for commercial production and induction of 124 Arjun tanks, the indegenious weapon platform is yet to be inducted into the army. They have to pass the final comparative trials with Russian tanks.

Asked whether more Arjun tanks would be inducted into army armoured formations said, Antony said: "Let us await the full rolling out of the 124 sanctioned tanks".

At the seminar, Nikolai Malykh, Director General of Russia's biggest tank Producer Uralvagonzavod, said India and Russia were mulling the joint development of a futuristic 'smart' battle tank, featuring higher speed and better firepower.

Malykh said preliminary discussions have already taken place and UVZ experts will be coming to India to carry forward the issue on the margins of international seminar.

He said the new tank featuring higher speed, better firepower, sophisticated armour protection and a smoother ride will mark "a great step forward in armour technology".

For the survivability of the highly trained human assets, armour-protected crew compartment will be sealed from the unmanned turret equipped with an automatic loader.

The crew will be networked with a virtual-reality command information system linked to reconnaissance aircraft and satellites.

The new tank is likely to have a new main gun of up to 152 mm calibre and a new hunter-killer fire control system with target acquisition inoptical, thermal, infrared and radar spectrum that will be accessible both to the gunner and tank commander.
 
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Asked if a future tank would be an indigenous effort, the Defence Minister said the emphasis would be on building an inhouse tank
IMO, Arjun project should not be abondend beacuse of nation's obsession with it.
I also fail to understand that since india have already invented the best tank thing in the world than why don't they induct it in it's main role.
What about export potential of Arjun?
 
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Indian Army abandons plans to order more Arjuns

The Indian army has confirmed that it will not place additional orders for the locally designed Arjun main battle tank (MBT) beyond the 124 already under construction.

General Dalip Bhardwaj, the army's director general of mechanised infantry, said on 5 July that "the army will place no more orders for the Arjun". While the Arjun "might be used in the next decade or so", he added that it was not suitable "for next-generation warfare". "The army... is looking 20 to 25 years ahead and wants a futuristic MBT," he said.

The Indian Ministry of Defence ordered 124 Arjuns in 2000 - which the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has been developing since 1972 - to be built at the Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi in southern India. These were meant to be delivered by 2009 but will not be completed on time.

Image: The Indian army has effectively killed the Arjun main battle tank project (Jane's)

How much each unit will cost, approximately?
Will those 124 incorporate airconditions?
When is the serial production is expected to start?
 
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