Arjun Mk.II Tank Clears All Army Trials, Service Next Year

[Indian Patriot]

Ignoring Arjun now and focusing entirely on the FMBT is a terrible waste since the FMBT won't be ready if the project officially began today till 2030 in a realistic timeframe. If we have to rely on T-72s till 2030 well then no one will take IA's tank prowess seriously 2000 T-90s alone are not a good defense against China. T-55 and T-72s after 2020 should be used for target practice for regular Anti Tank gunners in the infantry for training purposes. We can also use them as target practice for our CBU-105SFW (cans of whop ***) deployed from Jags. Arjun should duly replace all T-72/T-55 in inventory plus some. I think a total minimum order of 3000 Arjun should be made with most 2000 of them being Arjun mk-2 with improved engine/ATS/ missile firing ability and 1000 being a MK-3 version with further enhancements made over years of service.

FMBT can eventually replace the T-90

A 100mm gun mounted jeep is a strong defense against China. Which chinese tank can climb and cross the Himalayas? Even if very LAV do somehow cross the mountains they will be sitting ducks for Indian ATGM. That is why India has truckloads of ATGM at its disposal.

2000 is the proposed number. I doubt they will reach 2000 but there wont be less than 1800 T-90s at peak.

T-55 and T-72 has its uses. An upgraded T-55 is very good for active infantry support. T-72s are also good at tank vs tank battles in defensive wars. Indian T-72 are not the iraqi types, these are upgraded ones.

3000 Arjun??!!! What will India do with 3000 Arjun?

 

[Tshering22]

A 100mm gun mounted jeep is a strong defense against China. Which chinese tank can climb and cross the Himalayas? Even if very LAV do somehow cross the mountains they will be sitting ducks for Indian ATGM. That is why India has truckloads of ATGM at its disposal.

You are so wrong here man. China has bridges and roadways directly parallel to the Arunachal border. Have you seen the kind of terrain we have in Nathu la? That's nothing compared to the rest of the fronlines in our state.

We are not adequately stocked to deal with infantry combined with LAVs. It is only developing.

ATGMs alone won't do anything. We need sufficient armoured firepower.

We need something liked this:

2000 is the proposed number. I doubt they will reach 2000 but there wont be less than 1800 T-90s at peak.

T-55 and T-72 has its uses. An upgraded T-55 is very good for active infantry support. T-72s are also good at tank vs tank battles in defensive wars. Indian T-72 are not the iraqi types, these are upgraded ones.

3000 Arjun??!!! What will India do with 3000 Arjun?

T-72 and T-55 are old. Not to mention, the different types of climates it operates under, adds to the wear and tear compared to the uniform icy cold of Russia.

They are good tanks but they are no longer capable of handling modern warfare. Induction of new platforms is done seeing 30 years down the lane.

3000 Arjuns is a bit impractical but 1000+ is a good enough number.

Neither Arjuns nor T-90s would be good in the eastern front.

We need what I put above.

 

[Indian Patriot]

You are so wrong here man. China has bridges and roadways directly parallel to the Arunachal border. Have you seen the kind of terrain we have in Nathu la? That's nothing compared to the rest of the fronlines in our state.

We are not adequately stocked to deal with infantry combined with LAVs. It is only developing.

ATGMs alone won't do anything. We need sufficient armoured firepower.

We need something liked this:

T-72 and T-55 are old. Not to mention, the different types of climates it operates under, adds to the wear and tear compared to the uniform icy cold of Russia.

They are good tanks but they are no longer capable of handling modern warfare. Induction of new platforms is done seeing 30 years down the lane.

3000 Arjuns is a bit impractical but 1000+ is a good enough number.

Neither Arjuns nor T-90s would be good in the eastern front.

We need what I put above.

China has infrastructure advantage but not along the whole frontier. Their lines of advance would be predictable. Plus it is not easy operating a 50 ton tank in the Himlayan region. Deploying tanks over roads and railways is one thing, fighting with tanks which will be off-road is a very different matter.

India already has ATGM mounted BMP-2 which is ligh-weight. Russian tanks are designed to fight in cold weather. Don't forget Russian temperatures drop to -40 degrees.

 

[Omega007]

You are so wrong here man. China has bridges and roadways directly parallel to the Arunachal border. Have you seen the kind of terrain we have in Nathu la? That's nothing compared to the rest of the fronlines in our state.

We are not adequately stocked to deal with infantry combined with LAVs. It is only developing.

ATGMs alone won't do anything. We need sufficient armoured firepower.

We need something liked this:

T-72 and T-55 are old. Not to mention, the different types of climates it operates under, adds to the wear and tear compared to the uniform icy cold of Russia.

They are good tanks but they are no longer capable of handling modern warfare. Induction of new platforms is done seeing 30 years down the lane.

3000 Arjuns is a bit impractical but 1000+ is a good enough number.

Neither Arjuns nor T-90s would be good in the eastern front.

We need what I put above.

Buddy,giving full respect to your views and experience,I would still say that the T 72CIAs are a good bait against the PLA light tanks in that region.I have been to your state multiple times,that's why I know there a quite large number of BMP 2s and T 72CIAs dispersed at different garrisons,I hope you see them every day.
And I know what you are talking about.Yes,the terrain in some places is traverse-able by tracked vehicles,but there are also steep ridges flanking them,which can be exploited by ATGM teams.Believe it or not,while fighting in the mountainous/urban regions,the man portable ATGMs and LAWs become the biggest threat to any mbt since their lightly armored rooftops,sides and rears become exceedingly exposed to out flanking moves by infantry.So,in my view,sinking a lot of resources into light tanks,would be a bad idea,especially against a foe like the Chinese.

The Indian Army has done what was ought to do.They have placed T 72s and BMPs as a blocking forces against potential thrusts by Chinese light armor and as it has been proven many a times in previous wars,whenever a lightly armored vehicle has come face to face against a heavily armored opponent,the former has had their @rses handed to them unanimously.So T 72CIAs,though admittedly old,are still quit good a bait against the type of light tanks that has been deployed by the Chinese in that region.

 

[Tshering22]

China has infrastructure advantage but not along the whole frontier. Their lines of advance would be predictable. Plus it is not easy operating a 50 ton tank in the Himlayan region. Deploying tanks over roads and railways is one thing, fighting with tanks which will be off-road is a very different matter.

The PLA doesn't need the roads to be along the entire frontier.

A dropping point would be enough for them to engage in a full blown assault.

Plus, you are not factoring in air power. It is true that they need to have weight restrictions due to higher altitude but they have hundreds of fighters to compensate for that as air cover for their light tanks. They're not going to bring their Type 99 main tank here. That's for their eastern plains where they expect a US or Japanese invasion. That is impossible on this side of the border due to terrain.

Not to forget, heli-dropped PLA airborne units (since troop transport is limited again due to carriers). They are a massive quantity.

BTW the Chinese light tank is only 30 tons weight according to various reports and sources.

India already has ATGM mounted BMP-2 which is ligh-weight. Russian tanks are designed to fight in cold weather. Don't forget Russian temperatures drop to -40 degrees.

You are forgetting some key things here:

1- The problem is not the temperature. The problem is altitude.

That is the sole reason why many things that we can do on western border cannot be done here.

2- Terrain. If you do pay a visit to either my state Sikkim or even Arunachal Pradesh, just go to Nathu La here or Bum La in Tawang. That will give you a very, rough estimate on what kind of stuff our soldiers are supposed to face. And these are all well established posts with reasonable terrain and temperature.

A full blown combat will be fought in much more isolated, rough and harsher terrains.

3- The BMP-2s that we have is fine. It is again a numbers problem. We field way too less armoured firepower when it comes to comparing with PLA.

The MKIs can hold the frontier for long, but not all MKIs will be thrown into the combat mix. Because we know that IF such a conflict occurs, Pakistan will attempt a misadventure on the Western front and also utilize elements in Bangladesh, for a multi-front assault. Though Bangladesh would remain neutral in real life (much different from the ones here on PDF), they won't be strong enough to oppose Pakistan using rogue elements in their country.

And with our NO FIRST USE policy, we cannot even threaten a nuclear strike in response to a multi-pronged aggression. Unless of course we break the convention.

We need the following things on the eastern border:

1- Blankets of SAMs. (At least 10 batteries per sector in each state)
2- Blankets of MBRLs and howitzers. (At least 20 batteries of them across the two states)
3- Drones to keep a vigil between the mountain ranges. (At least a dozen of them flying just to monitor the borders.
4- ATGMs to the boot. (in thousands; remember a missile is not as potent in navigating the narrow ridges of the Himalayas as it is on other terrain).
5- ASAP deployment capabilities of Sikkim Scouts or other units of the Army to the frontiers through a strong armoured troop transport system, which has excellent roads.

And this is keeping in mind the worst possible scenario.

Buddy,giving full respect to your views and experience,I would still say that the T 72CIAs are a good bait against the PLA light tanks in that region.I have been to your state multiple times,that's why I know there a quite large number of BMP 2s and T 72CIAs dispersed at different garrisons,I hope you see them every day.

Sure thing. But are they enough? Can they hold a prolonged combat against the lighter, faster and more agile 30 ton tanks that PLA deploys? And how much of that is present?

Remember that while T-72 has been designed for +- 50 degrees, it is not designed for such high altitudes. There will be a certain degree of load penalty. They are not designed to take on the Himalayas. In fact, that is one such reason why US campaign in north Afghanistan and Spetsnaz campaign in the same area in Afghan war, both, failed miserably.

Technology is no match to the nature's fury here.

And I know what you are talking about.Yes,the terrain in some places is traverse-able by tracked vehicles,but there are also steep ridges flanking them,which can be exploited by ATGM teams.Believe it or not,while fighting in the mountainous/urban regions,the man portable ATGMs and LAWs become the biggest threat to any mbt since their lightly armored rooftops,sides and rears become exceedingly exposed to out flanking moves by infantry.So,in my view,sinking a lot of resources into light tanks,would be a bad idea,especially against a foe like the Chinese.

We don't have enough modern ATGMs. Remember a lot of them are also deployed to counter heavy armour from Pakistan.

While Pakistan doesn't have the money to go for a war, the Army cannot just throw back all their cautions.

When we talk about a war, we are talking about a two-front war for granted.

It is better to overestimate the enemy than underestimate them.

The Indian Army has done what was ought to do.They have placed T 72s and BMPs as a blocking forces against potential thrusts by Chinese light armor and as it has been proven many a times in previous wars,whenever a lightly armored vehicle has come face to face against a heavily armored opponent,the former has had their @rses handed to them unanimously.So T 72CIAs,though admittedly old,are still quit good a bait against the type of light tanks that has been deployed by the Chinese in that region.

I hope you're right. We have never used heavy tanks in the Himalayas. That is what I am apprehensive about.

Also since we cannot match the numbers that PLA has, we will need a quality nexus of missiles, MBRLs, SAMs, ATGMs, tanks and MKIs to give a befitting response.

 

[Immanuel]

A 100mm gun mounted jeep is a strong defense against China. Which chinese tank can climb and cross the Himalayas? Even if very LAV do somehow cross the mountains they will be sitting ducks for Indian ATGM. That is why India has truckloads of ATGM at its disposal.

2000 is the proposed number. I doubt they will reach 2000 but there wont be less than 1800 T-90s at peak.

T-55 and T-72 has its uses. An upgraded T-55 is very good for active infantry support. T-72s are also good at tank vs tank battles in defensive wars. Indian T-72 are not the iraqi types, these are upgraded ones.

3000 Arjun??!!! What will India do with 3000 Arjun?

Really you want to keep the T-55/T-72, regardless of how old and uncomfy they are for the crews to operate for the next 20 years? They can be upgraded to only an extant. 3000 Arjun would adequately replace the T-55s and T-72. We currently have around 2400+ T-72 tanks and around 800 T-55s. At a rate of 200 Arjun produced a year, it would still take 15 years to replace entire T-72/T-55 fleet.

As for the Chinese, in an all out conventional offensive against the Chinese, we would need to land tanks on their shores using the LPD's the Navy is looking for, the Arjun is ideal for this role.

 

[Indian Patriot]

The PLA doesn't need the roads to be along the entire frontier.

A dropping point would be enough for them to engage in a full blown assault.

Plus, you are not factoring in air power. It is true that they need to have weight restrictions due to higher altitude but they have hundreds of fighters to compensate for that as air cover for their light tanks. They're not going to bring their Type 99 main tank here. That's for their eastern plains where they expect a US or Japanese invasion. That is impossible on this side of the border due to terrain.

Not to forget, heli-dropped PLA airborne units (since troop transport is limited again due to carriers). They are a massive quantity.

BTW the Chinese light tank is only 30 tons weight according to various reports and sources.

Trust me brother. IAF has more experience in high-altitude warfare than PLAAF. Remember Kargil war? IAF has practical war experience whereas PLAAF has only doctrines. PLAAF cannot mobilise "hundreds of fighters". Air at high-altitude is thin and that hampers the mechanics of jet aircraft. In Kargil war IAF too faced the same problem.

Flying a jet over Himalayas is different than flying it over Punjab.

Helicopters have a limited range and altitude. How many helicopters will the PLAAF and PLA mobilise? If it is one helicopter then it means maximum 30 troops who will be without support and get cut down by Indian army.

If it is a mass of helicopters then you are again forgetting Indian radars, Akash SAM systems and IAF interceptor jets.

Can you show which tank you are talking about that weighs 30 tons? Is it able to take hits from Indian ATGMs?

You are forgetting some key things here:

1- The problem is not the temperature. The problem is altitude.

That is the sole reason why many things that we can do on western border cannot be done here.

2- Terrain. If you do pay a visit to either my state Sikkim or even Arunachal Pradesh, just go to Nathu La here or Bum La in Tawang. That will give you a very, rough estimate on what kind of stuff our soldiers are supposed to face. And these are all well established posts with reasonable terrain and temperature.

A full blown combat will be fought in much more isolated, rough and harsher terrains.

3- The BMP-2s that we have is fine. It is again a numbers problem. We field way too less armoured firepower when it comes to comparing with PLA.

The MKIs can hold the frontier for long, but not all MKIs will be thrown into the combat mix. Because we know that IF such a conflict occurs, Pakistan will attempt a misadventure on the Western front and also utilize elements in Bangladesh, for a multi-front assault. Though Bangladesh would remain neutral in real life (much different from the ones here on PDF), they won't be strong enough to oppose Pakistan using rogue elements in their country.

And with our NO FIRST USE policy, we cannot even threaten a nuclear strike in response to a multi-pronged aggression. Unless of course we break the convention.

1. And the chinese according to you have tanks that can easily operate at that altitude and temperature?

2. Yes Indian terrain is underdeveloped and hostile. And yest it needs development but the same problem will be faced by the Chinese as well unless they have learned to walk on air.

3. Armored wars over the Himalayas will be severely restricted. Indian army will not wait till the tanks cross over the border, no army does that. The routes will be mapped, planned and sabotaged with mines and IEDs. You are under the assumption that it is somehow possible to mount a massive armored assault of tanks weighing 45-50 tons over the Himalayas.

IF it was so easy to attack India then the Chinese would have done that by now.

We need the following things on the eastern border:

1- Blankets of SAMs. (At least 10 batteries per sector in each state)
2- Blankets of MBRLs and howitzers. (At least 20 batteries of them across the two states)
3- Drones to keep a vigil between the mountain ranges. (At least a dozen of them flying just to monitor the borders.
4- ATGMs to the boot. (in thousands; remember a missile is not as potent in navigating the narrow ridges of the Himalayas as it is on other terrain).
5- ASAP deployment capabilities of Sikkim Scouts or other units of the Army to the frontiers through a strong armoured troop transport system, which has excellent roads.

And this is keeping in mind the worst possible scenario.

Are you making this numbers because you feel they sound adequate or do you have some proper reasoning behind it?

Really you want to keep the T-55/T-72, regardless of how old and uncomfy they are for the crews to operate for the next 20 years? They can be upgraded to only an extant. 3000 Arjun would adequately replace the T-55s and T-72. We currently have around 2400+ T-72 tanks and around 800 T-55s. At a rate of 200 Arjun produced a year, it would still take 15 years to replace entire T-72/T-55 fleet.

As for the Chinese, in an all out conventional offensive against the Chinese, we would need to land tanks on their shores using the LPD's the Navy is looking for, the Arjun is ideal for this role.

India has a defence budget of 46 billion dollars in case you forgot. What do you want to do, buy 1000 Leo 2 or 1000 Abrams with that budget?

India will have to make do with the best of what it has. It is not written anywhere that war will break out after 20 years. T-55 are in reserve and T-72s are being replaced.

Why on earth will China invade us from the sea?

If the Chinese have to invade us from the sea they will have to march from Tamil Nadu all the way to Delhi. No sane person would ever think doing that. Similarly if India is to invade China by sea it will have to cross countries like Bangladesh, Burma, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore before it reaches the Pacific ocean and the south china sea.

 

[Mike_Brando]

Wow!!My chica knows so much about army depoyment and shit!!Wow chica,I did choose a good suka for me it seems!!Hey chica,can you cook chica??

Bhai stop messing with him,he is none other than our old sardar buddy.Just read all his posts and you'll understand who i am talking about

 

[Echo_419]

Painting a gun black does not make any difference.

I am surprised you follow India more than turkey these days.



DRDO is good with big-ticket projects not so with grassroot ones. But I admit the MCIWS looks as good as any western rifle.

No,the newer version had all the problems sorted out @Abingdonboy can confirm this
& what is that turkey thing is supposed to mean

 

[Immanuel]

[India has a defence budget of 46 billion dollars in case you forgot. What do you want to do, buy 1000 Leo 2 or 1000 Abrams with that budget?

India will have to make do with the best of what it has. It is not written anywhere that war will break out after 20 years. T-55 are in reserve and T-72s are being replaced.

Why on earth will China invade us from the sea?

If the Chinese have to invade us from the sea they will have to march from Tamil Nadu all the way to Delhi. No sane person would ever think doing that. Similarly if India is to invade China by sea it will have to cross countries like Bangladesh, Burma, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore before it reaches the Pacific ocean and the south china sea.[/QUOTE]

Orders have nothing to do with budgets at the moment, one can always spread out the orders over the next 15 years, the budget will only keep increasing, no body is asking to order all 3000 now. This make do attitude is the reason why mig-21s keep falling out the sky, how much longer beyond known years of obsolesce does India have to live with? Why then does the IA need new boots/ new rifles, howitzers at all, if we are so good at making do with what we have? The chances of war over the next 20 years may be low but that is the best time to prepare for a war so that when the war does eventually come we are holding more than just our dicks in our hands.

If China/ Pakistan decide to tag team us, why on earth wouldn't they open up all the fronts? China knows in a war in the mountains, they will have a tough time, they will have no option but to target the rest of India in order to thin out our forces. The war may start out as a border skirmish but after initial losses, I don't see the Chinese calling for truce. China will choose to expand its offensive from all directions using Pakistan to saturate our forces on the west while hitting us from east and south. Why do you think the Chinese are lurking near Sri Lanka, Bangladesh etc?

Why do you think the Navy wants 4 or more 40K ton LPDs (these are massive ships like the one the USN operates) or why is it strengthening Andaman? These marine units will one day if needed take the war to main land china. Indian Navy already dominates the straits. Or why do you think the IN wants to have at least 2 mid size carriers 45K ton ships by 2020 and perhaps 2 large 65K ton carriers by 2030?

How does having to cross Singapore/Malaysia have anything to do with taking the war to China? Half the countries you mentioned have open disputes with China, they will be allies. Singapore has repeatedly said, Singapore can be India's farthest outpost.

Wake-up and smell the coffee, you seem to be in deep sleep as to what IN/IAF and others are already doing to defend against a Chinese aggression from all directions and to take the fight to them.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Orders have nothing to do with budgets at the moment, one can always spread out the orders over the next 15 years, the budget will only keep increasing, no body is asking to order all 3000 now. This make do attitude is the reason why mig-21s keep falling out the sky, how much longer beyond known years of obsolesce does India have to live with? Why then does the IA need new boots/ new rifles, howitzers at all, if we are so good at making do with what we have? The chances of war over the next 20 years may be low but that is the best time to prepare for a war so that when the war does eventually come we are holding more than just our dicks in our hands .

Sure it does. The foreign seller may not be interested in selling their tanks on installment basis.

Buying military hardware is different than buying consumer goods. You must have heard about the 126 aircraft deal. You might wonder why 126, why not a round figure of 150? When a military buys hardware they do it on the basis of requirement. X number of brigades or divisions need Y number of equipment and an order is placed.

Why should India buy 3000 tanks? What is the requirement for raising new armored brigades? In 15 years a lot of doctrines can change. The demand maybe for APC or light tanks. Then what is the army supposed to do, keep paying for tanks they don't need?

This is called sound economics not make do attitude. If a country spends on defense like you say it won't take long for the economy to go bankrupt. There is a reason why not a single military in the planet follows what you suggested.

If China/ Pakistan decide to tag team us, why on earth wouldn't they open up all the fronts? China knows in a war in the mountains, they will have a tough time, they will have no option but to target the rest of India in order to thin out our forces. The war may start out as a border skirmish but after initial losses, I don't see the Chinese calling for truce. China will choose to expand its offensive from all directions using Pakistan to saturate our forces on the west while hitting us from east and south. Why do you think the Chinese are lurking near Sri Lanka, Bangladesh etc?

Have you seen the map of Asia? Do you realise how far Chinese boats will have to travel if they want to do an amphibious invasion of India? And you think the world will sit back and watch while two nuclear powered countries slog it out? When you imagine a scenario you omit the immense diplomatic and international pressure that is applied.

Chinese are better equipped than India in the mountains. India can fight a defensive war but taking the war to Chinese side seems unlikely at the present condition. The Chinese are not fools to invade India by Tamil Nadu when it when Delhi would be closer to them via the Himalayas.

Chinese are lurking for the same reason India is lurking in south china sea.

I don't know about Pakistan but China is not retarded to attack a nuclear powered country just for the sake of it. There is a limit to paranoia.

Why do you think the Navy wants 4 or more 40K ton LPDs (these are massive ships like the one the USN operates) or why is it strengthening Andaman? These marine units will one day if needed take the war to main land china. Indian Navy already dominates the straits. Or why do you think the IN wants to have at least 2 mid size carriers by 2020 and 3rd perhaps 4th large ones by 2030?

If Indian islands are threatened how is India supposed to deploy troops if not by LPDs, by fishing boats? Andamans are closer to SEA and hence are claimed by Indonesia who still have patrols nearby. It is only natural for IN to expand in size gradually over the years.

An amphibious assault of either India or China is IMPOSSIBLE in current force build-up.

How the hell would either IN or PLAN support an invasion. Are they going to buy ration and ammunition from local shops? What about the sea-routes, will the opposite navy sit back and watch while enemy LPDs move men and material or are they more likely to fire a 100 cruise missiles at these ships?

IN sends its LPD all the way to Shanghai via sea route, then what? Are they going to come back all the way to India to collect the next batch of ammunition, ration, fresh water, supplies, fuel, medicine and make the journey again or will they stop by at Malaysia/Vietnam and say "Oh hello, we just invaded China. This is a list of essentials we require. Please fill it up ASAP."?

How does having to cross Singapore/Malaysia have anything to do with taking the war to China? Half the countries you mentioned have open disputes with China, they will be allies. Singapore has repeatedly said, Singapore can be India's farthest outpost.

Having POLITICAL dispute is different than having a open MILITARY CONFRONTATION.

Wake-up and smell the coffee, you seem to be in deep sleep as to what IN/IAF and others are already doing to defend against a Chinese aggression from all directions and to take the fight to them.

Yes you are right. I was mistaken all this while. I accept defeat.

With a 46 billion dollar budget India is going to order for 3000 modern MBT, 300 new aircraft, 1000 artillery guns and if some money is left we can also order for 3-4 destroyers.

You sir, win the argument. Have a good day.

 

[Immanuel]

^^^
Again mostly gutter logic which is contrary to the present changes already being implemented. Arjun is not an import hence it can be ordered in installments, secondly all major deals have initial orders + options for more. You should read-up sometimes. Rafale deal is an import with an initial order of 126 + 64 in options if India chooses to order more but as it is the deal may never be signed due to cost increases and non adherence to RFP framework. No one is asking to raise new armored brigades, but replace old tin can T-55s with Arjun initially and then the T-72s when they start to really show their age 10 years down the line.

When a war starts with China at the borders, do you really think either side will suddenly become diplomatic at the end of a skirmish? Then you have no clue of Chinese mentality, it will have to be India who will have to fight diplomatically to prevent it from escalating, the Chinese I think will not back down that easy especially if they take a beating.. War can very quickly spread, secondly, China depends heavily on the straits for its oil supply, don't you think IN will literally close off the straits to choke Chinese supplies to the north and don't you think China will send its armada of ships for strikes on the mainland. If you think their striking us on the main land is impossible then I am glad none in the Indian Mil Estb. think that way. Chinese subs are frequently patrolling regions around India and in case of a war you can be sure of Chinese deception on the battlefield, the worst thing one can do in war is to underestimate or make rigid presumptions such as ones like China will never attempt to land troops on the mainland. Silly thing is you say, IN is acquiring the LPDs to defend its islands from invasions but you say also China will never attempt an amphibious invasion of India (what do you think, the islands are not part of India?) off course India will hold off the Chinese Navy at the Islands, brahmos will make it hard for Chinese ships to ever actually succeed in doing so but you can be sure they will try and if they put in enough assets, they can actually do it.

How are the Chinese better equipped in the mountains? How is New Delhi the most important target when the key Govt. figures in the event of an escalating war would be taking cover in bunkers god knows where?

A war with China is a by all means an extensive war, this will not be war that can be contained, because the nature of China. All efforts should be made to prevent war.

Who cares how far China is? IN is already ordered supply ships and more will come on the way. IN is ordering 4* 40K ships not just to defend islands, these ships will take the fight to the enemy if needed, a good defense stems from a strong offense. As for Chinese disputes with its other neighbors, when they are more than just political, Vietnam, Philippines, Japan often have tense military confrontations with Chinese Navy on the sea.

The discussion is about Arjun and it does make sense IA can replace the old T-55s with it first and then the T-72 else IA has to wait another 15 years before they can start inducting FMBT by then who knows the tanks could be an outdated idea due to availability of extensive things made to kill them.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Yes my friend you are absolutely right. Have a good day.

 

[desimorty]

We may not be able to match the advances in PLA's road networks to the Tibet border, but we still can airlift heavy arty, and medium tanks to the border areas plus supply them logistics. Remember Kargil?
The PLA would have to move everything from Tibetan plateau, and rely on what they already have stock piled but the Indian army has closer major bases and helipads, airstrips.
However, the situation is not ideal. But remember this, defense of a mountain, like Tiger hill is a lot easier. And thats what the PLA is up against even with armour.
India mountians, I would rather have arty and air power, with infantry, jeeps, trucks. Tanks will only help in low valleys where they can climb.