Arjun MK-2 tanks facing Smokey driver chamber in latest tests

[he-man]

yes thats why i posted in reply to sandy regarding pakfa development and how we should ideally tread towards it bit by bit
pls read that

 

[armchairPrivate]

Smoke Gets in Your Eyes

by The Platters

They said someday you'll find
All who love are blind
Oh, when your heart's on fire
You must realize
Smoke gets in your eyes

Now laughing friends deride
Tears I can not hide
Oh, so I smile and say
When a lovely flame dies
Smoke gets in your eyes
Smoke gets in your eyes

 

[Echo_419]

Refrain from analyzing my intellect, thats not in question here , the crux of the matter is Arjun MBT, What did DRDO exactly fumble in the planning stages as you have mentioned in the first post that i replied to. Should DRDO or which ever lab designed it should have gone through a different method...


My presumption is that Phase gate approach was used for planning at-least the Mk2 upgrades, is your contention different methodology be used to accomplish MoD deliverables.

Should Indigestion of the foreign content be on the same Phase approaches,

Should there be open bids of development for sub systems deliverable with private players

Should there be allotted capital for vendor development, how much,

Should there be cross platform developmental modules for system modelling and simulations

should there be extensive infrastructural setup for material development/ or should be sourced from international proven markets

should there be formulated participation of foreign program partners, if yes what percentage

should there be full access to private entities to key technologies

Should the Army alone decide the deliverable for the projects

Should there be a secondary review for strategic overview of the product

Should there be consolidation of value vs performance, if yes how much

Should all of this be included in the scope,

were all of the above included in Phases of planning, if not what indicates that, what would be value added activities, how can we learn to make this better- I would love to discuss on as such "constructive criticism"

btw am not defending DRDO, I am just asking a for a better argument.... thats it

All of you suckers are forgetting one thing
The tank is in development process
DEVELOPMENT YAAR
Not in production
So problems are sure to arise

 

[MilSpec]

All of you suckers are forgetting one thing
The tank is in development process
DEVELOPMENT YAAR
Not in production
So problems are sure to arise

I am pointing out to the blatant mudslinging, where the No.1 culprit is supposedly Planning? without understanding waht are the constituents of Planning for any product development how can someone generalize the procblem. Thus the exercise to bring some intellectual honesty to the table.. feel free to contribute... I am not defending any organisation just in case, I am questioning the methodology of the self professed experts, thats it!

 

[Mujraparty]

Arjun hits firewall
December 8, 2013



First field trials of India's main battle tank fall short of expectations

RECENTLY conducted field trials of main battle tank Arjun Mk- II, the upgraded version of Mk- I version, have thrown mixed results with the fire power comprising Israeli LAHAT missile falling short of expectation even as its overall performance left defence scientists upbeat.

Arjun Mk- II was put to extensive tests including a lot of firing from May to August this year in Rajasthan, a defence source said, adding that the tank also covered more than 1,000 km in the field trials. The Army and the Defence Research and Development Organisation ( DRDO) are separately evaluating results of the field trials held at the desert of Rajasthan.

There was no dispute between the developers and the users on the tank's performance on around 60 per cent of the parameters, the source said. In fact, DRDO scientists plan to showcase the Arjun tank's advanced version at the Republic Day parade next year.

But the trial outcome showed that the tank underperformed on two major counts – missile firing capability and muzzle reference system ( MRS). The MRS is an electronic device that is intended to measure the current value of a tank barrel bend in order to take it into account when firing the gun and, therefore, to improve the accuracy of firing.

The Israeli LAHAT missile performed well but it left a lot of smoke in the tank's compartment, the source said. Efforts were already underway to sort out the issue. Help is also being sought from the missile's manufacturerIsraeli Aerospace Industries ( IAI).

The Army agreed to accept Arjun Mk- II after the DRDO made several improvements to meet its expectations.

Subsequently, the DRDO decided to develop the upgraded version with 16 major and 56 minor changes. The Arjun core committee, comprising Army representatives and DRDO scientists, met every year to remove obstacles so that delays could be avoided. Within a short span of two- and- ahalf- year after the parameters for Arjun Mk- II were finalised, DRDO scientists were able to build two prototypes.

 

[SrNair]

Arjun hits firewall
December 8, 2013



First field trials of India's main battle tank fall short of expectations

RECENTLY conducted field trials of main battle tank Arjun Mk- II, the upgraded version of Mk- I version, have thrown mixed results with the fire power comprising Israeli LAHAT missile falling short of expectation even as its overall performance left defence scientists upbeat.

Arjun Mk- II was put to extensive tests including a lot of firing from May to August this year in Rajasthan, a defence source said, adding that the tank also covered more than 1,000 km in the field trials. The Army and the Defence Research and Development Organisation ( DRDO) are separately evaluating results of the field trials held at the desert of Rajasthan.

There was no dispute between the developers and the users on the tank's performance on around 60 per cent of the parameters, the source said. In fact, DRDO scientists plan to showcase the Arjun tank's advanced version at the Republic Day parade next year.

But the trial outcome showed that the tank underperformed on two major counts – missile firing capability and muzzle reference system ( MRS). The MRS is an electronic device that is intended to measure the current value of a tank barrel bend in order to take it into account when firing the gun and, therefore, to improve the accuracy of firing.

The Israeli LAHAT missile performed well but it left a lot of smoke in the tank's compartment, the source said. Efforts were already underway to sort out the issue. Help is also being sought from the missile's manufacturerIsraeli Aerospace Industries ( IAI).

The Army agreed to accept Arjun Mk- II after the DRDO made several improvements to meet its expectations.

Subsequently, the DRDO decided to develop the upgraded version with 16 major and 56 minor changes. The Arjun core committee, comprising Army representatives and DRDO scientists, met every year to remove obstacles so that delays could be avoided. Within a short span of two- and- ahalf- year after the parameters for Arjun Mk- II were finalised, DRDO scientists were able to build two prototypes.

So in overall Arjun Mk-2 is a success

 

[indiatester]

Arjun hits firewall
December 8, 2013



First field trials of India's main battle tank fall short of expectations

RECENTLY conducted field trials of main battle tank Arjun Mk- II, the upgraded version of Mk- I version, have thrown mixed results with the fire power comprising Israeli LAHAT missile falling short of expectation even as its overall performance left defence scientists upbeat.

Arjun Mk- II was put to extensive tests including a lot of firing from May to August this year in Rajasthan, a defence source said, adding that the tank also covered more than 1,000 km in the field trials. The Army and the Defence Research and Development Organisation ( DRDO) are separately evaluating results of the field trials held at the desert of Rajasthan.

There was no dispute between the developers and the users on the tank's performance on around 60 per cent of the parameters, the source said. In fact, DRDO scientists plan to showcase the Arjun tank's advanced version at the Republic Day parade next year.

But the trial outcome showed that the tank underperformed on two major counts – missile firing capability and muzzle reference system ( MRS). The MRS is an electronic device that is intended to measure the current value of a tank barrel bend in order to take it into account when firing the gun and, therefore, to improve the accuracy of firing.

The Israeli LAHAT missile performed well but it left a lot of smoke in the tank's compartment, the source said. Efforts were already underway to sort out the issue. Help is also being sought from the missile's manufacturerIsraeli Aerospace Industries ( IAI).

The Army agreed to accept Arjun Mk- II after the DRDO made several improvements to meet its expectations.

Subsequently, the DRDO decided to develop the upgraded version with 16 major and 56 minor changes. The Arjun core committee, comprising Army representatives and DRDO scientists, met every year to remove obstacles so that delays could be avoided. Within a short span of two- and- ahalf- year after the parameters for Arjun Mk- II were finalised, DRDO scientists were able to build two prototypes.

Seemed like a good outcome. I don't understand why this is called as "Arjun hits a firewall"

 

[HariPrasad]

It means the trial is a high degree of success. Rectify those 2 minor glitches. Why fire LAHAT from Arjun Why not CLGM? CLGM with NAG like fuel will solve the problem.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Do not make a general statement than. Army may not be happy with some stuff so as air force since they apply different criterion for foreign and Desi stuff? Had they tested T 90 and Su 30 and laid down stringent criterion like Arjun and LCA? Hal have to work hard for 10 years to remove bugs from Su 30. There are so many problems with T 90 at present.

When they applied same criterion in MMRCA, even Mig 35, Grippen, F 16 and F 18 failed.

They failed? Dude they didn't even offer the key tech with tot to India hence the deal went down the drain.. Lol @ u.

Can you pl elaborate? Give the source of 80%.

Except engine and some part of RADAR almost everything in Tejas is indiginized. Except 2 to 4 avionics, everything is indigenous. Lots of Sukhoi MKI parts are repleced by Indian design part. Composite replaced many MKI metal parts. Recently ordered Su of Russia uses Almost all avionics of LCA, Mission computer and Radar computer.

Thori jam choral kr... Don't be a fanboy... Fanboy..

 

[HariPrasad]

They failed? Dude they didn't even offer the key tech with tot to India hence the deal went down the drain.. Lol @ u.

Funny isn't it? They offered us Joint development of F 35.

Thori jam choral kr... Don't be a fanboy... Fanboy..

You are blind in Hater towards India. We were offered joint development of F35, BMD and other 100 technology. Where some country struggles to get some part of old planes.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/11/03/idINIndia-60286320111103

 

[hari sud]

Arjun II is a desert Ferrari.

The above was the Israeli view when they examined the tank three years back.

Indian Army is so much in favor of T-90 that they are reluctant to introduce this bully of a tank into frontline service. They would have to rejig their armored formation tactics to take this huge tank into consideration, hence the reluctance. But there are about one hundred already in service. These introduced in last three years ( Mark 1) as a matter of fact are educating the reluctant army with new tactics.

Moreover, Pakistanis aware of the arrival of this heavy on the border in Rajasthan have been deliberately reducing load bearing capacity of their bridges, digging bigger canals and overall betting on slowing it down. With its huge gun with capability to fire a variety of ammunition, Pakistanis have gone into a defensive mode. Their own tanks main gun ammunition does not effect Arjun Tank.

The Indian army in next three years would get used to it.

Comparably the Abrams and challengers are in the same weight class and have been appearing in almost all battles in Asia and elsewhere. These are operating fine. Nobody built new bridges for them in Afghanistan or Iraq. So why the hell in the name of Indian Army, false reporting and false discussion is continuing in this thread. New technologies introduction always has initial reluctance. Remember when computers were being introduced in India about twenty years back. There was a huge amount of reluctance to proceed. Now computers are part of every day life. I quote this anology to get a serious point across your head. It is the reluctance to new technology which is holding Arjun IIs introduction in the army. Soon the Indian Army will develop such a liking to it that they would forget about t-90.

 

[帅的一匹]

Too heavy for deserts? C'mon man, you can do better than that. The Arjun has a lower ground pressure than the lighter T-90, due to its design. And the Arjun is not meant to be deployed in mountains anyway!

Let's dwell on this a little. The Arjun exerts LESSER GROUND PRESSURE per sft than the tin cans called T-90. The larger track width of ARJUN distributes it's 67 ton weight more lightly in MARSHY or DESERT conditions. The pressure exerted by the T -72 and T - 90 tanks is 0.83 kg/cm2 and 0.87kg/cm2 respectively, whereas that of our Arjun Tank only 0.84 kg/cm2 compared to that of US Abrams tank which is 1.05 kg/cm2.

During exercises and trials, many areas previously marked as unsuitable for tank deployment were covered by the Arjun unlike the T-90s because of the latter's lesser track width resulting in greater ground pressure. Unlike the T-90s, Arjun is known as the 'Desert Ferrari' by the Israelis due its speed, accuracy, and mobility on most types of terrain. The Army wanted a third party to assess the tanks and called in experts from Israel. They subjected the tanks to more tests at the Mahajan Field Firing ranges and were so impressed that they called it a "Desert Ferrari”.

A little homework would suffice.

IA prefers T90 more than your Desert Ferrari. Tell me why?

One could shamelessly described a stumble elephant as desert Ferrari, holy Gesus. Or all IA officers are just plain stupid.

 

[帅的一匹]

T90 is very maneuverable compared with Arjun.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Funny isn't it? They offered us Joint development of F 35.

Lmao.. oh oh.. okay..

Yet they didnt offer you key tech in case of F-16s n F-18s.. both successful aircraft in service with several countries..

Google is your fraaaaand!

You are blind in Hater towards India.

Take a look at your posts kid.

We were offered joint development of F35, BMD and other 100 technology. Where some country struggles to get some part of old planes.

U.S. open to selling F-35 jet fighters to India| Reuters

The report talks about possible F-35 sale to india . even so ... than why not go for the offer?

Instead you look towards russia,france n israeli ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Arjun II is a desert Ferrari.

The above was the Israeli view when they examined the tank three years back

First decide if it is a tech demonstrator or a fat ferrari... tht cant operate on the front lines...

Indian Army is so much in favor of T-90 that they are reluctant to introduce this bully of a tank into frontline service.


They would have to rejig their armored formation tactics to take this huge tank into consideration, hence the reluctance.

Lol so india wasted decades on a tank tht its army doesnt want? and has no "tactical" use ?

Also the bulk of the t-90 order was placed after the induction of Arjun.

But there are about one hundred already in service. These introduced in last three years ( Mark 1) as a matter of fact are educating the reluctant army with new tactics.

..........

Moreover, Pakistanis aware of the arrival of this heavy on the border in Rajasthan have been deliberately reducing load bearing capacity of their bridges, digging bigger canals and overall betting on slowing it down.

Lmao.. yeah we are "reconstructing" our canals,bridges etc for that.. although... nobody is aware of our top secret plans or has seen any such contruction taking place.... except for Hari "dud"..

Also unfortunately ... the indian bridges,carriages,deserts cant be used by indian made (german designed... 50% imported) .. 119 arjun MK-Is..

With its huge gun with capability to fire a variety of ammunition, Pakistanis have gone into a defensive mode. Their own tanks main gun ammunition does not effect Arjun Tank.

Lol... huge "obsolete" 120mm tank gun of arjun and the obsolete ammo used by the indian armoured regiments really scares us..

As for our own tanks.. even the basic AK had the capability to fire missiles etc.. something india is struggling with these days (arjun mk-2) same goes for ammo in our use..

The Indian army in next three years would get used to it.

Comparably the Abrams and challengers are in the same weight class and have been appearing in almost all battles in Asia and elsewhere. These are operating fine. Nobody built new bridges for them in Afghanistan or Iraq. So why the hell in the name of Indian Army, false reporting and false discussion is continuing in this thread. New technologies introduction always has initial reluctance. Remember when computers were being introduced in India about twenty years back. There was a huge amount of reluctance to proceed. Now computers are part of every day life. I quote this anology to get a serious point across your head. It is the reluctance to new technology which is holding Arjun IIs introduction in the army. Soon the Indian Army will develop such a liking to it that they would forget about t-90.

You sir are a genius...