Are you in favor of IRGC's involvement in non-military fields ? ( Iranian members only )

[haman10]

Who asked for your opinion?

Providence is a good friend of mine.

one of the few guys out there with an open-minded view of the world.

i asked for his opinion

 

[The SiLent crY]

Thanks for the comments my friends . I think both sides had logical points in their argument but I have a question from the supporters of IRGC involvement in our industry , economy and construction . How is the country supposed to develop and achieve 1404 targets if there is no chance of healthy competition between private sector firms etc inside the country !? , How can local and low budget sectors survive if IRGC simply wins every bid due to their superior resources , influence and capability ?

There are already alleged rumors that IRGC wins the bids and then gives the projects to other smaller firms with half or even lower the actual budget . The thing is too much influence and meddling in the internal affairs could eventually turn the country into a maifia dominated state which is supported by the government and this might provoke unrest in long term .

 

[bozorgmehr]

Thanks for the comments my friends . I think both sides had logical points in their argument but I have a question from the supporters of IRGC involvement in our industry , economy and construction . How is the country supposed to develop and achieve 1404 targets if there is no chance of healthy competition between private sector firms etc inside the country !? , How can local and low budget sectors survive if IRGC simply wins every bid due to their superior resources , influence and capability ?

There are already alleged rumors that IRGC wins the bids and then gives the projects to other smaller firms with half or even lower the actual budget . The thing is too much influence and meddling in the internal affairs could eventually turn the country into a maifia dominated state which is supported by the government and this might provoke unrest in long term .

They aren't! They won't! Never have, never will! But that was never the point. I think what you need to keep in mind is that you're dealing with a totalitarian form of government, bent on enforcing and propagating a specific ideology. Iran the country, its interests, its culture, history, language, identity, etc... and the welfare and well-being of its people were never the top priority. They are just a means, to be used, and if necessary abused, to serve their ideological ends.

And just like its contemporary totalitarian systems, it poses a far bigger danger than any external sources to the people and country it rules.

 

[Iranm]

They aren't! They won't! Never have, never will! But that was never the point. I think what you need to keep in mind is that you're dealing with a totalitarian form of government, bent on enforcing and propagating a specific ideology. Iran the country, its interests, its culture, history, language, identity, etc... and the welfare and well-being of its people were never the top priority. They are just a means, to be used, and if necessary abused, to serve their ideological ends.

And just like its contemporary totalitarian systems, it poses a far bigger danger than any external sources to the people and country it rules.

You are making a big mistake. Not all of them are in favor of mullahs and most of them are just where they are as only as some employees. It just needs time....

 

[mohsen]

Thanks for the comments my friends . I think both sides had logical points in their argument but I have a question from the supporters of IRGC involvement in our industry , economy and construction . How is the country supposed to develop and achieve 1404 targets if there is no chance of healthy competition between private sector firms etc inside the country !? , How can local and low budget sectors survive if IRGC simply wins every bid due to their superior resources , influence and capability ?

There are already alleged rumors that IRGC wins the bids and then gives the projects to other smaller firms with half or even lower the actual budget . The thing is too much influence and meddling in the internal affairs could eventually turn the country into a maifia dominated state which is supported by the government and this might provoke unrest in long term .

there is no competition. as I said IRGC only challenges foreign companies.

IRGC takes the big projects which Iranian companies cannot afford, for example the south pars phases, then IRGC splits the project among smaller private companies. this way they gain the chance to cooperate in the projects which previously they couldn't even dream of, Iranian engineers manage to work on the projects which previously only foreign ones could.

No offense Mohsen, as usual, my problem with your posts are your sources....I listed the "Guardian" as my source about the airport corruption case, what did you list? Hardline, conservative mouthpieces. Sorry list some reputable sources and then we'll talk....I'm all for security of Iran. If indeed there is proof of the Turkish company has ties to Israel I'd be the first to applaud that decision....but posting blogs and known hardline news sources is not credible.
From Wikipedia:
Jame-Jam 2002 Persian "Owned by the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting...hardliner"[13]

for you Guardian maybe a reputable media but for me, it's just another western propaganda tool.

for those who are fool enough to believe whatever B.S they are fed to, there are media like foxnews, and for those who are more suspicious, there are other media like Guardian who mixes the true and false news, right and wrong.
they both serve the same purpose, but have different tactics.

for example look up the guardian's news about MKO terrorist group, in one article they talk against them, in other article they support them and show them as the victims! Guardian completely misleads its readers about the true identity of this terrorist group, simply that's the job of the Guardian.

I proudly use hardliners, principalist or whatever name you give them, cause unlike the others they care about the moralities, and don't resort to whatever tactics even lies to achieve their goals.
unlike the rest, for them, the moralities isn't a relative concept.

 

[Madali]

If you work in Iran, like I do, and you have the option of having Sepah as your client or a private company, which one do you think we would prefer?

As long as Iran is sanctioned, we need giant entities handling projects to be able to bring down cost and to absorb losses.

 

[OldTwilight]

If you work in Iran, like I do, and you have the option of having Sepah as your client or a private company, which one do you think we would prefer?

As long as Iran is sanctioned, we need giant entities handling projects to be able to bring down cost and to absorb losses.

The answer is clear , Sepah ....
Most of private companies in Iran threat their employees as slaves ....

 

[bozorgmehr]

there is no competition. as I said IRGC only challenges foreign companies.

IRGC takes the big projects which Iranian companies cannot afford, for example the south pars phases, then IRGC splits the project among smaller private companies. this way they gain the chance to cooperate in the projects which previously they couldn't even dream of, Iranian engineers manage to work on the projects which previously only foreign ones could.


for you Guardian maybe a reputable media but for me, it's just another western propaganda tool.

for those who are fool enough to believe whatever B.S they are fed to, there are media like foxnews, and for those who are more suspicious, there are other media like Guardian who mixes the true and false news, right and wrong.
they both serve the same purpose, but have different tactics.

for example look up the guardian's news about MKO terrorist group, in one article they talk against them, in other article they support them and show them as the victims! Guardian completely misleads its readers about the true identity of this terrorist group, simply that's the job of the Guardian.

I proudly use hardliners, principalist or whatever name you give them, cause unlike the others they care about the moralities, and don't resort to whatever tactics even lies to achieve their goals.
unlike the rest, for them, the moralities isn't a relative concept.

I'm sorry, these are outright lies!!! But then morality, integrity and truthfulness are not qualities you usually find in Islamists.

IRGC takes on projects that others can't handle? Is that why they take over successful companies like SADRA shipbuilding and Iran's Telecommunication company and are in everything from the oil industry to banking, airlines and car manufacturing?

Is IRGC a business or part of Iran's armed forces? Is it meant to protect Iran or use it as a private fiefdom to enrich itself? Does it take its budget and direction from the Iranian government or is it an independent entity?

You know which others 'businesses' have armed wings? Drug cartels... mafias... gang syndicates... The difference being that these guys operate legally in Iran. But the effects are equally damaging.

With such lawlessness, nepotism and unfair advantage, is it any wonder why the Iranian industry doesn't develop and the economy doesn't grow beyond the price of oil?

If you work in Iran, like I do, and you have the option of having Sepah as your client or a private company, which one do you think we would prefer?

As long as Iran is sanctioned, we need giant entities handling projects to be able to bring down cost and to absorb losses.

The answer is clear , Sepah ....
Most of private companies in Iran threat their employees as slaves ....

Brilliant piece of logic, as usual, gentlemen!

Why don't we just shutter the private sector, because we all know it doesn't work? Because all the advanced economies where we have to beg to get technology or equipment from are all run by ideological armed entities. Let the IRGC run the whole thing. Cause they teach you how to run an economy while cleaning your AK47.

 

[mohsen]

I'm sorry, these are outright lies!!! But then morality, integrity and truthfulness are not qualities you usually find in Islamists.

don't be sorry, lies is the only thing that i expect from secular/liberals and the rest!

IRGC takes on projects that others can't handle? Is that why they take over successful companies like SADRA shipbuilding and Iran's Telecommunication company and are in everything from the oil industry to banking, airlines and car manufacturing?

Is IRGC a business or part of Iran's armed forces? Is it meant to protect Iran or use it as a private fiefdom to enrich itself? Does it take its budget and direction from the Iranian government or is it an independent entity?

You know which others 'businesses' have armed wings? Drug cartels... mafias... gang syndicates... The difference being that these guys operate legally in Iran. But the effects are equally damaging.

With such lawlessness, nepotism and unfair advantage, is it any wonder why the Iranian industry doesn't develop and the economy doesn't grow beyond the price of oil?

Sadra is a successful company?! IRGC two times has saved it from bankruptcy, once in 1388 and the second time was last year.
https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/شرکت_صنعتی_دریایی_ایران

mafias are your beloved Americans capitalists who control the whole American's society. from media to weapons manufactures and even governments, gangsters who create wars to boost their profits in arms companies.
the meaning of western democracy.

 

[bozorgmehr]

don't be sorry, lies is the only thing that i expect from secular/liberals and the rest!


Sadra is a successful company?! IRGC two times has saved it from bankruptcy, once in 1388 and the second time was last year.
https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/شرکت_صنعتی_دریایی_ایران

mafias are your beloved Americans capitalists who control the whole American's society. from media to weapons manufactures and even governments, gangsters who create wars to boost their profits in arms companies.
the meaning of western democracy.

Do you even understand what you're saying? Don't use words that are too big if you don't understand them.

Unlike Iran, western governments work for the national interests of their own countries and the benefit of their own people. They work for the growth and health of their own industries and economies. That's what they've been elected to do. That is their sworn responsibility. It's their ethical duty. You can't blame them for that. Only fools, disconnected from reality would expect them to conduct themselves in accordance to our interests!!!

Which makes the behavior of the islamist government of Iran and IRGC all the more criminal. They have no care or sense of loyalty toward Iran and see its economy and resources as something to be harvested and used to enrich themselves and their associates.

Tell me, how the fukk does a branch of armed forces get the money to bail out a private company, not once, but twice according to you? lol

What is the purpose and mission of the IRGC? Is it part of the armed forces, meant to maintain Iran's territorial integrity? Is it the islamists private military wing, meant to destroy its ideological opponents? Is it a for profit corporation meant to enrich its owners? There's a conflict of interest between these roles. You can't have guns, use your governmental influence, use government funds to develop your infrastructure and expertise, and then compete with the private sector as a for profit organization. Of course your private industry won't have the change to grow. Because it will be raped by IRGC. Because it will die when it goes against all the unfair advantages of the IRGC enjoys. That's why there's a strict separation between these roles in all of the advanced economies in the world.

But I doubt you give a sh!t! Because you don't give a sh!t about Iran. Just like Khomeini didn't have any feelings about Iran when he came back...

 

[bozorgmehr]

BTW, here's a quick look at SADRA's order book right up until IRGC's benevolently took them over in 2009, purely out of altruistic motives:

• In 2005, SADRA won a 100 million euro contract to build four cargo ships for German company Rickmers.[4]
• In 2006 SADRA group won a $2.4 billion contract to build 10 LNG carriers for the Belgian shipping group EXMAR.[2]
• In 2009 SADRA begun manufacturing four 113,000-metric-ton Aframax oil tankers for Venezuela.[6][7]
• In 2009 SADRA launched a domestically-built semi-floatable drilling rig for the Caspian Sea. The semi-submersible rig called 'Iran-Alborz' is the largest in the Middle East. The semi-floatable platform is able to operate at water depths up to 1,030 meters and can drill down to 6,000 meters under the seabed.[8] Iran-Alborz is operated by Iran North Drilling Co.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SADRA

 

[Naara-e-Mastana]

They simply have got a very high capacity because of the [B][U]missile cities[/U][/B] that are secret and could not have been done by private companies. .

[QUOTE="PeeD, post: 9535311, member: 164846"]The construction capability and technology of the IRGC is responsible for the vast underground [B][U]missile "cities[/U][/B]".
.[/QUOTE]
Care to explain missile cities ?

After reading comments my simple question is what do iranian government do ?
.
is ayatullah a de facto president?
.
is there a democracy in iran or irgc calls the shot?
.
Arnt government responsible for economic stuff? Finance ministry ?

 

[Asghar1234]

This is security of my country :

Whoever doesn't like it can go straight to hell.

 

[Kastor]

Wow, you hardliners are really showing the limits of your intellectual capabilities. "Only lies from secular liberal"? Man you would fit right in with the uneducated whites in Middle America that get screwed by the Republicans but keep on voting for them anyway. At least I know why they do it because they don't care to inform themselves. What's your excuse? It's simple fact military orgs shoud not get mixed up in politics or money. For the sake of Democracy. If you don't like or want Democracy then come out and show your colors! The learned people said the revolution in Iran happened because the inequality and corruption the Shah's regime created, looks like you guys are doing no better. Same shit with different rhetoric. Keep the military out of the economy. It's logic not liberalism, secularism or any other label you want to stick on people.

 

[OldTwilight]

Wow, you hardliners are really showing the limits of your intellectual capabilities. "Only lies from secular liberal"? Man you would fit right in with the uneducated whites in Middle America that get screwed by the Republicans but keep on voting for them anyway. At least I know why they do it because they don't care to inform themselves. What's your excuse? It's simple fact military orgs shoud not get mixed up in politics or money. For the sake of Democracy. If you don't like or want Democracy then come out and show your colors! The learned people said the revolution in Iran happened because the inequality and corruption the Shah's regime created, looks like you guys are doing no better. Same shit with different rhetoric. Keep the military out of the economy. It's logic not liberalism, secularism or any other label you want to stick on people.

sorry , we have " intellectual capabilities " to show its limit but I fear you have none ....

Brilliant piece of logic, as usual, gentlemen!

Why don't we just shutter the private sector, because we all know it doesn't work? Because all the advanced economies where we have to beg to get technology or equipment from are all run by ideological armed entities. Let the IRGC run the whole thing. Cause they teach you how to run an economy while cleaning your AK47.

say these to workers who worked but didn't get paid ....

and what about PRIVATE SECTOR in Iran !? do you know how most of them are formed !?

lets me tell you a story ....

"There was a country , and the country name was Iran , many years ago , people wanted change and revolted and changed the system . in first decade of new system , almost all major private companies become nationalized or rather , become part of government .... years after years come and during these years some officials got rich by people money and then used their illegal money to make new private companies in their own or their own family member names and today , those rich officials who are behind of murdering real private sector in Iran , are supporting private sector aka their own companies .... "

آقایونی که خودشان بخش خصوصی واقعی را نابود کردند و شدند مسئول و طی مسئولیتشون ثروت های هنگفتی به هم زدند و از رانت اطلاعاتی برخوردارند ، دارند دم از خصوصی سازی ( بخوانید خودمانی سازی ) و حمایت از بخش خصوصی می زنند ....

یکی از این آقایون جناب نعمت زاده هست که با 40 سال کارمند دولت بودند ، جزء هیئت مدیره ی بیش از 8 شرکت هست و ثروتش بالای 1000 میلیارد تومان در سال 92 تخمین زده شده ( منابعی از مبلغ 4000 میلیارد تومان حرف می زنند )

حالا چهارتا کم اطلاع که نمی دونند اصل قضیه چیه ، میاند صحبت می کنند ، این قضیه هم از نظر ایشان کاملا سیاسی هست وگرنه هیچ کس توان رقابت برابر با اینها رو توی حوزه ی اقتصاد نداره چون به بازیشون ناجوانمردانه هست و همیشه رقیبت یا به مسئولین وصله یا رانت اطلاعاتی وحشتناک داره یا راحت می تونه از تسهیلات بانکی استفاده کنه ...

من توی کار نرم افزار و سیستم های اطلاعاتی هستم که برای مراکز عمومی و دولتی و سازمانهای بزرگ کاربرد دارند و باید بگم که اگه بهترین نرم افزار رو هم بسازید ، تا زمانی که یکی از مسئولین پشت شما نباشند ، امکان فروش نرم افزار رو ندارید ...

نکته ی جالب اینه که همین مسئولین خودشون به نام بستگانشون شرکت های نرم افزاری تاسیس کردند و نرم افزارهای خودشون رو به فروش می رسونند ....