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Are Pashtuns in majority?

:) Well Pashtuns/Pathans/Pukhtuns from Pakistan do not wish to join Afghanistan similarly the Afghan side of Pashtuns also do not wish to join Pakistan, However, some political elements just for sake of continuing their politics talk of a greater Pakhtunistan/Pashtunist; which BTW is not possible.

secondly such unification is not going to bring any peace because the peace can only come to the region when Afghanistanis are willing to give due share to all the ethnicity in Afghanistan in power

Do you think Pashtuns and non Pashtuns can get along in Afghanistan?
 
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Do you think Pashtuns and non Pashtuns can get along in Afghanistan?
Not really, there is a Tajik/Persian vs Pashtun rivalry in Afghanistan. However in Pakistan - Pashtuns are one of the most patriotic people and believe in national unity through Islam.

If Pashtuns from Afghanistan also join Pakistan, what would be the population % of Pashtuns in the new Pakistan?

Is there any desire or interest on either side of the border to make this happen? It may bring some peace to this troubled region.



Atleast in India, Pathans don't easily intermingle with others and are very proudly proclaim Hum Pathans hai. They say they are the ruling class.
Pashtun population would reach 80-100 million in Pakistan.

Pashtuns in Afghanistan have strong links to Pashtuns in Pakistan - but there is alot of anti-Pakistan sentiments in Afghanistan at the moment; due to skirmishes, Pakistan's early support of the Taliban and just simple envy.

Currently, the Afghanistan is ruled by the Persian/Tajik minority and Pashtuns are heavily under-represented. This has led to ethnic tensions and unrest - and if this continues; Pashtun majority areas in Afghanistan will possibly try to merge into Pakistan. But I'd rather not have this happen - we dont want to inherit their problems. We already know what the refugees did.
 
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Not really, there is a Tajik/Persian vs Pashtun rivalry in Afghanistan. However in Pakistan - Pashtuns are one of the most patriotic people and believe in national unity through Islam.

That is what I thought. My point was if Afghanistan is balkanized then the Pashtun areas would most likely join Pakistan. What would the % population of Pashtuns in Pakistan then. Now itself I am reading that they are already in majority.

Not really, there is a Tajik/Persian vs Pashtun rivalry in Afghanistan. However in Pakistan - Pashtuns are one of the most patriotic people and believe in national unity through Islam.


Pashtun population would reach 80-100 million in Pakistan.

Pashtuns in Afghanistan have strong links to Pashtuns in Pakistan - but there is alot of anti-Pakistan sentiments in Afghanistan at the moment; due to skirmishes, Pakistan's early support of the Taliban and just simple envy.

Currently, the Afghanistan is ruled by the Persian/Tajik minority and Pashtuns are heavily under-represented. This has led to ethnic tensions and unrest - and if this continues; Pashtun majority areas in Afghanistan will possibly try to merge into Pakistan. But I'd rather not have this happen - we dont want to inherit their problems. We already know what the refugees did.

Why do you think it would lead to problems if Pashtuns merge with Pakistan? Wouldn't it automatically solve the refugee problem.

Squash legend.

I use to follow the matches between Jehanghir Khan and Jansher Khan.

They completed dominated the game in those days.
 
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That is what I thought. My point was if Afghanistan is balkanized then the Pashtun areas would most likely join Pakistan. What would the % population of Pashtuns in Pakistan then. Now itself I am reading that they are already in majority.



Why do you think it would lead to problems if Pashtuns merge with Pakistan? Wouldn't it automatically solve the refugee problem.
I'm not sure how much the %age would be - probably 40-50%.

pashtun-map1.jpg


That is what I thought. My point was if Afghanistan is balkanized then the Pashtun areas would most likely join Pakistan. What would the % population of Pashtuns in Pakistan then. Now itself I am reading that they are already in majority.



Why do you think it would lead to problems if Pashtuns merge with Pakistan? Wouldn't it automatically solve the refugee problem.



I use to follow the matches between Jehanghir Khan and Jansher Khan.

They completed dominated the game in those days.
The current Pashtun-dominated regions in Afghanistan are all filled with corruption, crime, drugs, tribal fighting, black markets, unrest and ect... No one would want that region.
 
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I'm not sure how much the %age would be - probably 40-50%.

pashtun-map1.jpg



The current Pashtun-dominated regions in Afghanistan are all filled with corruption, crime, drugs, tribal fighting, black markets, unrest and ect... No one would want that region.

What is the blue shaded area represent? Are those Pashtun majority areas? Why is it shaded blue in Baluchistan?

Once the merger happens you would be able to better control these problems directly isn't ? You have these problems now as you do not have direct control on these areas in Afghanistan.
 
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What is the blue shaded area represent? Are those Pashtun majority areas? Why is it shaded blue in Baluchistan?

Once the merger happens you would be able to better control these problems directly isn't ? You have these problems now as you do not have direct control on these areas in Afghanistan.
Pashtuns and Baloch are represented by blue.

Yes, but it would cost a massive operation and money. Its best if we just shut down the border.
 
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@Talwar e Pakistan You should include Nishan-e-Haider Karnal Sher Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Majority? I am not sure about that but certainly second largest group in Pakistan if ancestry is counted as measure. And if Indian Muslims stop illegally migrating to Karachi (with improving Indian economy that will happen) then in the future Karachi might end up being Pashtun majority as unlike some other groups it is still in the early cycle (starting stage 2 below) of population growth.

demographic-transition-model.jpg

I dont know what your problem is with urdu-speaking people
But please dont try to ruin every single thread with your hatred
 
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Almost every village in the potohar, AK seems to have at least one chap who has a wife from either swat/bannu/chitral etc or afghan refugee, is this true in other parts of punjab or very rare.
 
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I've been recently researching deeply into the ethnic groups and demographics of Pakistan - and was surprised to see that Pashtuns may be in majority soon and may already be in majority.

Here are the ethnic demographic statistics provided officially by the Government in 2009 :
  1. Punjabis (42.15%) 70.7 million
  2. Pashtuns (17.42%) 35.2 million
  3. Sindhis (14.1%) 24.8 million
  4. Seraikis (10.53%) 14.8 million
  5. Muhajirs (7.57%) 13.3 million
  6. Balochs is (3.57%) 6.3 million
  7. Others (4.66%) 11.1 million
However there is one huge flaw in this statistic.

This statistic is mostly based off of province population rather than ethnic population. It does not take in mind that not all Punjabis are Punjabis and it completely ignores the fact that there is a whopping approx. population of 25-30 million Pashtuns in Punjab - better known as Pathans of Punjab and millions of people in Punjab with Muhajir roots.

This bumps up overall Pashtun population to 55-60 million not including Pashtun diaspora in Sindh and Baluchistan and decreasing the Punjab population to 35-40 million including the Punjabi Muhajir population - this in correlation with the 2009 statistics and may be inaccurate compared to our current year.

I ask other members to intellectually contribute to this topic and correct any mistakes in my 'report'.

Here are a list of famous Pashtun Punjabis -

Dont spread false information. From where you are getting the figures that there are 2.5 crores Pashtuns in Punjab?
More than half of the individuals in your list are Niazis (Sambals, Rohkris , Isa Khels etc are also Niazis). Mianwali population is 1.4 million and based on British gazetteer stats, Niazis would be around 40% of total population of district, i.e some where around 5 or 6 lakhs. Majority of these Niazis are in Isa Khel Tehsil which lies west to river Indus and is geographically part of Pakhtunkhwa. The other major settlement of Pashtuns in Punjab is Chachh area of Attock, with around 85 villages in possession of Pashtuns , and according to British gazetteers, they numbered 30 thousands in 1901, so must be around 3 lakh today (Niazis numbered 41 thousands in 1901 census). The third major settlement of Pashtuns was in Multan region, they were only few elite families from Durranis and Khakwanis, they are not major constituents of local demographics. The so called "Kasuri Pathans", are selected few families as evident from the book "Afaghan-i-Kasur" by Ayub Khan, it ceased to be exist as colony of Afghans or pathans when it was destroyed by Sikhs in 18th century, and finally in 1807. Judging from British Gazetteers stats, Kasuri Pathan families would number few thousands. So the so called Punjabi Pathans are between one and two million, not 2.5 crores.

Those in Lahore, mentioning their "caste" as Pathan, have roots from east Punjab e.g Hoshiarpur, Jalunder, Ludhiyana ete, where some of the villages were in possession of these Pathans (details about their lands and numbers are available in gazetteers of those districts). Its Baloch who have heavy presence in Punjab , not Pashtuns. Except kasur (who were installments of Mughals), Mughals uprooted all the Afghan settlements in Punjab as it was policy of Akbar. Aurangzeb, when he was provincial governor of Multan, allowed a branch of Saddozais to settle in Multan and appointed their chief as his lieutenant. Then other clans like Alizais and Khakwanis followed their footsteps. A portion of Attock near Indus river was given as jagir to Khattak chiefs who were imperial mansabdars.

The 35 million in the stats, are "proper" Pashtuns i.e Pashto speakers from KPK, FATA, Balochistan and Karachi (In Karachi i am talking about Pashtuns not bhaiya-pathans like Saulat Mirza). The people in your list are Pathans or bara-i-naam Pashtuns like Shahrukh Khan, Irfan Pathan and Salman Khan. How can they be called "Pashtun" when neither their language nor culture , nor their music and dress, customs and traditions is of Pashtuns?. Pashtun is a highly cultural and linguistic group, they are not inclusive like Balochs. if we go into genetics and lineages, then around 30-50% of Pashto speakers in Pakhtunkhwa, have non-pashtun roots and are "Indics" , the aborigines and remnants of Gandhara civilzation, who were kept as "hamsaya", and they speak Pashto. The case of Mianwali and attock is different, they lie adjacent to Pakhtunkhwa and many of their villages (near border with KPK) are still pashto speaking, and rest of them have retained some elements of Pashtun tribal society even though they have lost Pashto.
save_ghenda

Pashtun population would reach 80-100 million in Pakistan.
80-90 millions? How so? by breeding like habits?

Its not that Pashtun population has suddenly grown. It always had this proportion from 1947. They were not telling the numbers of their female family members in the household and would take offense at the inquiry, thats why it is wrongly assumed that FATA population must be around 4.4 million while its actually between 7 and 8 million. Same is the case with many backward areas of KPK and Balochistan while exact population of Pashtuns could not be determined ( British used to count number of males). Population of N.Waziristan was assumed to be 5 lakhs, but it was more than a million (not surprising as my desert district of smaller size has population of 0.8 million)
 
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Dont spread false information. From where you are getting the figures that there are 2.5 crores Pashtuns in Punjab?
More than half of the individuals in your list are Niazis (Sambals, Rohkris , Isa Khels etc are also Niazis). Mianwali population is 1.4 million and based on British gazetteer stats, Niazis would be around 40% of total population of district, i.e some where around 5 or 6 lakhs. Majority of these Niazis are in Isa Khel Tehsil which lies west to river Indus and is geographically part of Pakhtunkhwa. The other major settlement of Pashtuns in Punjab is Chachh area of Attock, with around 85 villages in possession of Pashtuns , and according to British gazetteers, they numbered 30 thousands in 1901, so must be around 3 lakh today (Niazis numbered 41 thousands in 1901 census). The third major settlement of Pashtuns was in Multan region, they were only few elite families from Durranis and Khakwanis, they are not major constituents of local demographics. The so called "Kasuri Pathans", are selected few families as evident from the book "Afaghan-i-Kasur" by Ayub Khan, it ceased to be exist as colony of Afghans or pathans when it was destroyed by Sikhs in 18th century, and finally in 1807. Judging from British Gazetteers stats, Kasuri Pathan families would number few thousands. So the so called Punjabi Pathans are between one and two million, not 2.5 crores.

Those in Lahore, mentioning their "caste" as Pathan, have roots from east Punjab e.g Hoshiarpur, Jalunder, Ludhiyana ete, where some of the villages were in possession of these Pathans (details about their lands and numbers are available in gazetteers of those districts). Its Baloch who have heavy presence in Punjab , not Pashtuns. Except kasur (who were installments of Mughals), Mughals uprooted all the Afghan settlements in Punjab as it was policy of Akbar. Aurangzeb, when he was provincial governor of Multan, allowed a branch of Saddozais to settle in Multan and appointed their chief as his lieutenant. Then other clans like Alizais and Khakwanis followed their footsteps. A portion of Attock near Indus river was given as jagir to Khattak chiefs who were imperial mansabdars.

The 35 million in the stats, are "proper" Pashtuns i.e Pashto speakers from KPK, FATA, Balochistan and Karachi (In Karachi i am talking about Pashtuns not bhaiya-pathans like Saulat Mirza). The people in your list are Pathans or bara-i-naam Pashtuns like Shahrukh Khan, Irfan Pathan and Salman Khan. How can they be called "Pashtun" when neither their language nor culture , nor their music and dress, customs and traditions is of Pashtuns?. Pashtun is a highly cultural and linguistic group, they are not inclusive like Balochs. if we go into genetics and lineages, then around 30-50% of Pashto speakers in Pakhtunkhwa, have non-pashtun roots and are "Indics" , the aborigines and remnants of Gandhara civilzation, who were kept as "hamsaya", and they speak Pashto. The case of Mianwali and attock is different, they lie adjacent to Pakhtunkhwa and many of their villages (near border with KPK) are still pashto speaking, and rest of them have retained some elements of Pashtun tribal society even though they have lost Pashto.
save_ghenda


80-90 millions? How so? by breeding like habits?

Its not that Pashtun population has suddenly grown. It always had this proportion from 1947. They were not telling the numbers of their female family members in the household and would take offense at the inquiry, thats why it is wrongly assumed that FATA population must be around 4.4 million while its actually between 7 and 8 million. Same is the case with many backward areas of KPK and Balochistan while exact population of Pashtuns could not be determined ( British used to count number of males). Population of N.Waziristan was assumed to be 5 lakhs, but it was more than a million (not surprising as my desert district of smaller size has population of 0.8 million)
Am not spreading 'false information' - I did one month of research. I understand what your saying - but i'm talking from a genetic/ethnic point of view - not a cultural/language point of view. An Arab who speaks english and follows western lifestyle doesnt make him White. You can change your culture and language but you can never change your blood.

And when I meant 80-90 million, I meant by annexing Pashtun dominated areas in Afghanistan.
 
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I have never come across any rural pashtun/baloch who settled centuries ago in punjab. All have been recent migrants from some generations back at most. Apart from Attock only in south punjab rural areas you will find sizeable population of old pashtuns and baloch. In upper punjab areas instead ethnic kashmiri butts are common in rural areas.

This is backed up by British census of punjab.
 
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I have never come across any rural pashtun/baloch who settled centuries ago in punjab. All have been recent migrants from some generations back at most. Apart from Attock only in south punjab rural areas you will find sizeable population of old pashtuns and baloch. In upper punjab areas instead ethnic kashmiri butts are common in rural areas.

This is backed up by British census of punjab.


In India, Bhat is a Brahmin surname. Not sure about the ones in Pakistan. Are there any vegetarians?
 
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Am not spreading 'false information' - I did one month of research. I understand what your saying - but i'm talking from a genetic/ethnic point of view - not a cultural/language point of view. An Arab who speaks english and follows western lifestyle doesnt make him White. You can change your culture and language but you can never change your blood.

And when I meant 80-90 million, I meant by annexing Pashtun dominated areas in Afghanistan.
Pardon me for my rudeness, but your one month research is nothing more than a copy paste from Wikipedia. Pashtun strictly means Pashto-speaker. Like i said, if we dig into racial origins, then 30-50% of Pashto-speakers in every district of KPK, are non-tribal people , of non-Pashtun genealogies (Artisan classes, Sayyids, Qureshis, Gujars, Jats etc).
 
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