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Are Pashtuns descendents of lost tribes of Israel?

It is amazing how similar we are actually. Btw what do the different colours represent on the image? Im assuming red is South Asian and blue is European/West Asian?

Red is South Asian and blue is West Asian but can be further divided into European/West Asian. There is European admixture in South Asian populations as well but it is ancient and all it says that South Asians and Europeans had a common ancestor thousands of years ago before they split off into different directions.

I'm also not sure about whether the red can be split off into the separate categories of ANI (Ancestral North Indian) and ASI (Ancestral South Indian) This website looks further into the genetics of ANI and ASI. Ancestral North Indian is related to West Asian and European populations while Ancestral South Indian is indigenous and not related to any other populations in the world. Well, all humans are genetically related but ASI is not closely related to any other population in the world.

Harappa Ancestry Project - Genetics and South Asia
 
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dear infiltrator
you speak very high about your research.i thanked you for showing interest in us.you said Pakistani punjabis and indian punjabis has lot of similarities and they are one genetically.
my dear pakistani punjab is very big.
upper punjab ==pothohar
central punjab
lower punjab == sariki belt
as you said we pakistani punjabis are same to indian pujabis ,i request you please enlighten us on the basis of above division which part of pakistani punjab shares more similarity to indian punjab.
in pakistani punjab( 3 parts) who dominates the region and their genetic origin.thanks

Only the Jatts in Punjab Province of Pakistan and "Indian" Punjabis (Khalistanis) are similar. Most "Indian Punjabis" are Jatts. Pakistani Punjabis are composed of many sub-ethnic groups (Jatt, Gujar, Arian, Rajput, Syed, Gilani, Qureshi, Malik, Sheikh, etc).

Besides, Punjabis dont represent the bulk of India. There are only 3% Punjabi population in India while there is 45% Punjabi population in Pakistan. And we Pakistani Punjabis call "Indian" Punjabis Khalsas or Khalistanis, not Indians.

Punjabi itself is not an ethnic group like Pashtuns. Anyone living in Punjab can be a Punjabi. The word Punjab means land of five rivers in Persian/Farsi language, the words Punjab and Punjabi were given to us by the Persians when Punjab was part of the Persian empire. Punjabis like Allama Iqbal and Nawaz Sharif are ethnically Kashmiri and still are/were proud to be Punjabi.
 
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Only the Jatts in Punjab Province of Pakistan and "Indian" Punjabis (Khalistanis) are similar. Most "Indian Punjabis" are Jatts. Pakistani Punjabis are composed of many sub-ethnic groups (Jatt, Gujar, Arian, Rajput, Syed, Gilani, Qureshi, Malik, Sheikh, etc).

Besides, Punjabis dont represent the bulk of India. There are only 3% Punjabi population in India while there is 45% Punjabi population in Pakistan. And we Pakistani Punjabis call "Indian" Punjabis Khalsas or Khalistanis, not Indians.

Punjabi itself is not an ethnic group like Pashtuns. Anyone living in Punjab can be a Punjabi. The word Punjab means land of five rivers in Persian/Farsi language, the words Punjab and Punjabi were given to us by the Persians when Punjab was part of the Persian empire. Punjabis like Allama Iqbal and Nawaz Sharif are ethnically Kashmiri and still are/were proud to be Punjabi.

I've seen you post something similar before in a topic that was closed. Half of the so-called ethnic groups you posted are not even close to ethnic groups but honorary titles like Syed, Gilani, Qureshi, Malik, Sheikh, etc. Thousands of people claim to be Syed, Gilani, Sheikh across West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia. They are not all culturally and ethnically related.

Also, Indian Punjab does not only have Jatts. They are the majority but there are also many Khatris, Gujjars, Rajputs, Sainis, Aroras etc.

Again, Punjabi is an ethnic groups made up of sub-castes/sub-groups like I mentioned above. They are all closely related culturally and ethnically. The major differences are down to religion but even then the cultural similarities are there.
 
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I've seen you post something similar before in a topic that was closed. Half of the so-called ethnic groups you posted are not even close to ethnic groups but honorary titles like Syed, Gilani, Qureshi, Malik, Sheikh, etc. Thousands of people claim to be Syed, Gilani, Sheikh across West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia. They are not all culturally and ethnically related.

Also, Indian Punjab does not only have Jatts. They are the majority but there are also many Khatris, Gujjars, Rajputs, Sainis, Aroras etc.

Again, Punjabi is an ethnic groups made up of sub-castes/sub-groups like I mentioned above. They are all closely related.

Yes we are the same, so Punjabis in India should annex their land to Punjab Province of Pakistan and become Pakistanis because most of Punjabis in the world live in Pakistan and Punjabis are the largest ethnic group in Pakistan (both in number and in percentage).

And people in Punjab Pakistan dont make up these sub-groups. People are very serious about these sub-groups especially in rural areas. 50 years ago, it was unheard of a Syed marrying a Rajput and vice-vera. Today, things are changing but still many people care more about these sub-groups than being a Punjabi because as I said Punjabi is just a Persian word meaning anyone who belongs in the land of five rivers.
 
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Yes we are the same, so Punjabis in India should annex their land to Punjab Province of Pakistan and become Pakistanis because most of Punjabis in the world live in Pakistan and Punjabis are the largest ethnic group in Pakistan (both in number and in percentage).

So? They are ethnically the same and culturally very similar but the religious divide is too much. Sikhs and Hindu Punjabis would not want to live in a Muslim dominated state. Sikhs didn't want to even live in a Hindu dominated state so they demanded their own homeland where they were the majority and Indian Punjab was further split up into Haryana and Himachal Pradesh in order to give Indian Punjab a Sikh majority.

And people in Punjab Pakistan dont make up these sub-groups. People are very serious about these sub-groups especially in rural areas. 50 years ago, it was unheard of a Syed marrying a Rajput and vice-vera. Today, things are changing but still many people care more about these sub-groups than being a Punjabi because as I said Punjabi is just a Persian word meaning anyone who belongs in the land of five rivers.

Perhaps, they don't make up these "honorary" titles but they are nothing more than that. Are you telling me a Syed in western Iran or Arab country is the same as a Syed in Pakistan? I've never seen genetic studies done on these groups and all online research lists them as honorific titles.

Again, Punjabi is recognized as an ethnic group. You don't immigrate to Pakistani Punjab or Indian Punjab and become ethnically Punjabi. Culturally, yes but not ethnically.
 
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Perhaps, they don't make up these "honorary" titles but they are nothing more than that. Are you telling me a Syed in western Iran or Arab country is the same as a Syed in Pakistan? I've never seen genetic studies done on these groups and all online research lists them as honorific titles.

You're right, most of them (Syed, Gilani, Qureshi, Malik, Sheikh) are honorific titles. For example, i'm a Bihari Mallick.
 
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I already stated you have no idea what your talking about. How can anyone with half a brain believe anytime that comes out of your mouth when you use the words Aryan and Dravidian like they are scientific and say people are more Aryan or Dravidian based on their ethnic groups. Your deluded and living in denial. I've read the page and what the chart means numerous times. It doesn't say anything like what your saying and neither do the members at anthropology and genetic forums across the internet.

Honestly, having a discussion with you is like like talking to a brick wall. Even when your proven wrong, you still deny everything or make up some excuse as to why the other person is wrong.

Much wind, no substance basically. I didn't say you havent a clue what you're talking about to disturb your emotions. I said it because you don't. What this shows are markers only, not genetic makeup as you seem to think. I'll leave it there for you to think about it and try and understand.
 
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Besides, Punjabis dont represent the bulk of India. There are only 3% Punjabi population in India while there is 45% Punjabi population in Pakistan. And we Pakistani Punjabis call "Indian" Punjabis Khalsas or Khalistanis, not Indians.

What a cruel joke of destiny that these 'Khalistanis' in the Sikh Light infantry, Punjabi regiments and Sikh regiments are the largest grouping in the Indian Army (w.r.t their population) .:whistle:
 
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Surrounded by Uttar Pradesh Dalits? Indian Punjab is bordered by Pakistan Punjab to the west , Haryana to the south, Jammu and Kashmir to the north and Rajasthan to the south/southwest. To further my point, Indian Punjabis still look at caste/occupation when intermarrying so what would it matter if Indian Punjabis were surrounded by Uttar Pradesh Dalits? Your anecdotal evidence of seeing the difference means nothing. Your the one with agenda trying to separate Pakistan from India as much as possible and going to the extent of saying Pakistani Punjabis are ethnically different than their Indian Punjabis counterparts without a shred of evidence.

If you understood what you're posting, you'd realize how foolish that statement is.

Since you don't it's difficult to help you.

Your evidence doesn't mean what you think it means.

And the idea that Indian Punjabis are so pure they didnt mix with Uttar Pradesh Dalits, or the swarms of Indians from elsewhere in India that can freely travel into Delhi is not only racist but wishfully racist.

Indian Punjab was comprised of Himachal Pradesh and Haryana which borders Uttar Pradesh. Those are the facts. The same ethnic group of people do not border Pakistani Punjab. So they are culturally similar (though religion is a big difference), but do not hold quite the same characteristics as each other.

If you can prove to me that Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani Pashtuns, Iranian Balochis and Pakistani Balochis and North and South Koreans are genetically much different from one another, then you have a point. Until then, your shouting agenda driven bullshit.

I think there's slight differences definitely. However, not as much as the Indian Punjab, Pakistani Punjab difference. This is due to religion probably. While Koreans and Baloch/Pashtuns share similar religions across their borders, Indian and Pakistani Punjabis do not.

If you think ethnicity trumps religion in the majority of cases of intermarriage in Indian Punjab, I'd like to hear it.

An agenda to play in genetic work nowadays? I'm sure Noah Rosenberg has an agenda regarding South Asian genetics. Oh wait, since your saying the chart means nothing regarding genetic clusters and similarity, then there would be no problem if there was some ridiculous agenda.

If you understood what the chart meant, you'd realize what you're saying is incorrect.

If there is anyone with an agenda, it is you Roadrunner. You can't accept the fact that Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis are the same population separated by an imaginary border or that Pashtuns are so genetically similar to their Pakistani brothers and other northwest Indian populations.

The similarity does increase the further northwest you go though.

However, your claim that Indian Punjabis are genetically similar to Pakistani Punjabis based on Rosenberg's clustering is dumb. It doesn't imply that at all.
 
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Punjabi is not an ethnicity. It's like a culture. Waris Shah who a famous Punjabi poet, had his roots from Uzbekistan.
 
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Honestly, roadrunner, I'm not wasting my time replying every single one of your quotes. You used the terms Aryan and Dravidian like they are scientific yet apparently understand how to read a genetic cluster better than I do. You have no idea what you are talking about nand only spew agenda driven bullshit.

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 PM ----------

Punjabi is not an ethnicity. It's like a culture. Waris Shah who a famous Punjabi poet, had his roots from Uzbekistan.

That's great to know. Tell that to all the ethnic Punjabis. Let them know they don't exist from an ethnic perspective. I'm sure they won't be offended at all.

Roots from Uzbekistan? Prove it then. Otherwise, he was born an ethnic Punjabi according to the research I've just done.
 
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Much wind, no substance basically. I didn't say you havent a clue what you're talking about to disturb your emotions. I said it because you don't. What this shows are markers only, not genetic makeup as you seem to think. I'll leave it there for you to think about it and try and understand.

No substance? You are the one who said people are more Aryan or Dravidian based on their ethnic group and use those terms like they are scientific. Anything you say has no substance. The fact that you made those claims makes the rest of your claims even seem more baseless.

Markers only? Roadrunner, I've read through numerous genetic forums. What they say is the opposite of you. You also have to consider they have genuine knowledge about what they are discussing unlike you who throws around the terms Aryan and Dravidian.

If you used the terms Aryan and Dravidian on genetic forums, you would be banned for trolling. This forum unfortunately lets you spew your utter bullshit.
 
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If you understood what you're posting, you'd realize how foolish that statement is.

Since you don't it's difficult to help you.

Your evidence doesn't mean what you think it means.

If it doesn't think what I mean, write the exact reasons why and take apart the study since your an expert geneticist. Prove to me why what those people say on genetic forums is utterly wrong. You claimed the study was agenda driven and demanded I find the exact source of it. After that was done, you deny the study and say it doesn't mean what it clearly says it means.

And the idea that Indian Punjabis are so pure they didnt mix with Uttar Pradesh Dalits, or the swarms of Indians from elsewhere in India that can freely travel into Delhi is not only racist but wishfully racist.

Your talking to me about racism? I've seen your posts before. It doesn't take that much effort to see you look down upon Indians. Unfortunately, people associated with one another in the past based on caste and continue to do until this day. Jatts, Khatris, Gujjars, etc. rarely marry one another so why would they marry non Punjabis and Uttar Pradesh Dalits? Even when Indian Punjabis immigrate out of Punjab, they are still likely to marrying within sub-ethnic groups of Punjabis.

Indian Punjab was comprised of Himachal Pradesh and Haryana which borders Uttar Pradesh. Those are the facts. The same ethnic group of people do not border Pakistani Punjab. So they are culturally similar (though religion is a big difference), but do not hold quite the same characteristics as each other.

I love your ignorance. Himachal Pradesh is mostly populated by non Punjabi ethnic groups and Haryana is only partly Punjabi and mostly in the northwest areas near the Punjab border. Also, large parts of Rajasthan border Pakistani Punjab. Doesn't mean Pakistani Punjabis are heavily mixed with Rajasthanis.

Your clearly showing your agenda. Trying to separate Pakistan from India as much as possible. You do this to the point where your essentially trying to separate Indian Punjabis from Pakistani Punjabis as much as you possibly can. I wonder if you would do the same for Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistanis Pashtuns or Iranian Baloch and Pakistani Baloch.


I think there's slight differences definitely. However, not as much as the Indian Punjab, Pakistani Punjab difference. This is due to religion probably. While Koreans and Baloch/Pashtuns share similar religions across their borders, Indian and Pakistani Punjabis do not.

Religion doesn't cause huge ethnic differences between an ethnicity. Pakistani Punjabis still marry mostly Pakistani Punjabis and the same with Indian Punjabis. They are still the same ethnicity unles they intermarry with other ethnic groups. Also, North Korea is communist and mostly Buddhist influenced while South Korean is mostly atheist and Christian. There are huge cultural differences that continue to grow between North and South Korea because of the communist vs. democratic governments. North and South Koreans rarely meet one another yet alone intermarry. You would know this if you weren't so ignorant.

If you think ethnicity trumps religion in the majority of cases of intermarriage in Indian Punjab, I'd like to hear it.

It does. Ask any Indian Punjabis. There should be a few on this forum. Caste and ethnicity continue to play huge roles in Indian Punjab until this day. Jatts, Khatris, Gujjars, Sainis, Aroras, Ramgharia, etc. Sikhs rarely marrying one another. If they rarely marry amongst one another, why would they marrying non Punjabis?


If you understood what the chart meant, you'd realize what you're saying is incorrect.

If you understood that Aryan and Dravidian aren't scientific words, your comments wouldn't sound entirely baseless and agenda driven.



The similarity does increase the further northwest you go though.

However, your claim that Indian Punjabis are genetically similar to Pakistani Punjabis based on Rosenberg's clustering is dumb. It doesn't imply that at all.

It's dumb? Is it as dumb as your comments about people being more or less Aryan and Dravidian?

I'm not saying Indian Punjabis are genetically similar to Pakistani Punjabis based on Rosenberg's research. I never stated that and you'll never find a quote to prove it. I'm saying they are genetically similar because they are the same ethnic group that have similar sub-ethnic groups/castes that make up the majority of their populations. In this case, Jatts, Khatris, Rajputs, Gujjars etc.
 
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Indian behind his master's flag. I'm Punjabi and it depends what tribe you are to determine race. Stop embarrasing yourself.
 
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Indian behind his master's flag. I'm Punjabi and it depends what tribe you are to determine race. Stop embarrasing yourself.

You mean false flagger? Nice job resorting to false flag insults since you have no argument.

I'm American. Ask any of the Indians I've dealt with. I don't take sides on issues between India and Pakistan as I'm neutral and my loyalty lies to only the United States and a small amount towards Canada.

Your tribe determines your race? You don't know the first thing about anthropology or genetics. Honestly, the Pakistani Punjabis I've met in Canada and the U.S. would be embarrassed to be associated with you.
 
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