Are Muslims Better Off in Quaid-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah's Pakistan Today?

[KS]

We are a young country undergoing a solid identity construction, a crowd turning into a nation state, its a natural and critical component of social evolution, nothing wrong with it.

Any identity must be based on what-it-is and not based on what-it-isnt. I honestly find the predominant attempt of defining Pakistani identity as just not-India. And your above post just strengthens my observation.

 

[nair]

@Aeronaut Sir.... Would like to understand from you... are the muslims better off in pakistan??? and would Sri Jinnah would be happy to see the way citizens of pakistan lives today....

 

[KS]

You are more likely to get raped in India than in Pakistan.

Well that depends on how many rapes are actually reported. I dont believe all occurred rapes are reported..Do you ? And btw one can also say, one is more likely to be killed in Pak than in India.

 

[Sashan]

Well that depends on how many rapes are actually reported. I dont believe all occurred rapes are reported..Do you ? And btw one can also say, one is more likely to be killed in Pak than in India.

Check the nos -0.0 - wondering how accurate the nos are

 

[Azazel]

You are more likely to get raped in India than in Pakistan.

They are recorded rape rates.And they are six years older than India.Why don't you go through this??

Violence Against Women in Pakistan, documents a virtual epidemic of crimes of violence against women, including domestic violence rates as high as 90 percent, at least eight reported rapes every 24 hours nationwide, and an alarming rise in so-called honor killings.Violence against women has risen to staggering levels. Women's low social status and a long established pattern of active suppression of women's rights by successive governments has contributed to the escalation in violence. No government has acknowledged the scale and severity of the problem much less taken action to end the violence against women. When a Commission of Inquiry for women convened by the Pakistan Senate described domestic violence as one of the country's most pervasive violations of human rights, its findings were brushed aside by the Sharif government. As a result of such dismissive official attitudes, crimes of violence against women continue to be perpetrated with near total impunity.

Women in Pakistan face staggeringly high rates of rape, sexual assault, and domestic violence while their attackers largely go unpunished owing to rampant incompetence, corruption, and biases against women throughout the criminal justice system. Women who report rape or sexual assault encounter a series of obstacles. These include not only the police, who resist filing their claims and misrecord their statements, but also medicolegal doctors, who focus on their virginity status and lack the training and supplies to conduct adequate examinations. As for the trial in rape cases, typically, in the words of a Lahore district attorney, "The past sexual history of the victim is thrown around and touted in court to the maximum." Furthermore, women who file rape charges open themselves up to the possibility of being prosecuted for illicit sex if they fail to "prove" rape under the 1979 Hudood Ordinances, which criminalize adultery and fornication. As a result, when women victims of violence resort to the judicial system for redress, they are more likely to find further abuse and victimization.

UNHCR | Refworld | Crime or Custom? Violence Against Women in Pakistan

Clearly,Your statistics only prooves Pakistan police is not doing its job.

 

[GURU DUTT]

You are more likely to get raped in India than in Pakistan.

im waiiting when is more poor than sub saharan africa , toilets and cow piss is going to come in the thread

 

[nair]

Check the nos -0.0 - wondering how accurate the nos are

In that rate.... Pakistan wont have any rape cases... If you may read so

 

[KRAIT]

im waiiting when is more poor than sub saharan africa , toilets and cow piss is going to come in the thread

Tum sache dost ho, meri dil ki baat post kar di, main bhi yahi kehne wala tha.

Rape to aa hi gaya hai, ab naa jane kis kis par comparison hoga.

Aur dono desh ke poster sochenge ki chalo hamare yahan rape kam hote hain unke jyada par bhool jayenge ki isme proud feel karne ki koi baat nahin.

 

[Son of Mountains]

@ Title of the thread

Alas!! On ground realities, we are not.

There are so many factors including Religious extremist ties, role of Mullahs/feudals/Politicians.

Sleepy nation, cunning politicians, repeated Martial laws, lesser attention on Education, Science and Technology, international games

Long list can be made.

Rethinking needed on the point that what to do to save the Nation? When will a real change come???

Or otherwise, what i see....is that.....our children will also take breath in above said atmosphere. Who wants so?

 

[RescueRanger]

Please can we close this thread, as it really is not going anywhere. We all know what Quaid E Azam's vision was for Pakistan. Anyone who has passed thier Pak Studies and bothered to read books on the sub-continent can understand the vision and ideals our founding father had for us.

His gift to us is a nation state, an identity and a legacy of truth and honesty, tenacity and justice. It would serve us Pakistanis well to keep strong to our three virtues of (Unity, Faith, Discipline). Furthermore i feel that whilst debate is golden, some topics are bound to provoke a more tempestuous response and should therefore be approached with caution.

Just my two cents.

 

[Sashan]

@Aeronaut - thank you for enforcing the English only rule in this thread as it makes it easier for members like me to follow the thread. It takes time for someone like me to read through the Hindi or Urdu posts.

 

[utraash]

So its true..........Ignorance is the new bliss......

we have Example next door to our nation how well a muslims do in compare with non muslims... Only nation included in list of failed state in whole SouthAsia ... which is majority muslim population founded on the principle of islam

And let me ask you the enlightened one why is that muslim do better in non muslim countries or Enviroment than there own so called majority muslim countries ....take a example like yours

And if you remove the religion spectacles from eyes and look around in the world ..Success is not a servant of religion..its goes to one who deserves it and strives for it.... it not a entitlement you get just coz you are born in a particular religion...

best lines of whole thread..... bargaining on islam wont make any difference but your deeds........

 

[KRAIT]

Please can we close this thread, as it really is not going anywhere. We all know what Quaid E Azam's vision was for Pakistan. Anyone who has passed thier Pak Studies and bothered to read books on the sub-continent can understand the vision and ideals our founding father had for us.
His gift to us is a nation state, an identity and a legacy of truth and honesty, tenacity and justice. It would serve us Pakistanis well to keep strong to our three virtues of (Unity, Faith, Discipline). Furthermore i feel that whilst debate is golden, some topics are bound to provoke a more tempestuous response and should therefore be approached with caution.
Just my two cents.

This is exactly what I said that the wrong comparison is in discussion. What you have said, the dream of Quaid's and present conditions should be the topic of discussion.

But it has turned into mud slinging competition.

@Son of Mountains Totally agree with you.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I agree that we should not fight on the basis of religion but to say that there is a mention in any of hindu scripture about prophet is a pure lie and cunningly manipulated translation. actually there is no where in any book of any religion is a mention of any other prophet. there is a certain section in every religion which is always keep trying to prove that their religion is pure and according to science, all other books are indicating about truthfulness of their religion. but this is pure farce, and is attempt to attract as much follower as they can.
And this jakir nike is the biggest joker and fraud india has seen in 21st century.
the main thing is to dont do bad things and be constructive and positive. and God dont need any intermediary between him and his creation.

I never said that......im talking abt the bolded part.

about yr next few lines well i have already said that we mostly dont know that our religion actually says!!
Now u saying there is no mention about Prophet Muhammad(PBUH), that is telling me the story that u also dont know abt yr religion.

Now let me tell u this too that His(Prophet PBUH) prediction is also mentioned in Bible as well!!!.

Like i said watch the videos of Dr Zakir Naik who actually happens to be a indian himself in utube namely similarities b/w Islam n hindusim and also let me suggest u another one ''Islam/Quran in the light of Modern Science and Technology''.

Dr Zakir Naik is a Gujrati and lives in Mumbai and is a student of Islam and comparative religions, he is now a days WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS VOICE in Religious affairs specially Islam.

So certainly he knows better then us atleast...The best thing about him is that he quotes the religious scriptures as well as verses in them too n if u have problems u can always cross check them.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We need to teach kids the truth?

What is your version if the truth?.

Mine is that we need to teach kids about other great visionist like Rehmat Ali, Iqbal and many many more that have worked endlessly to fight for the unique cultural and religious heritage of the provinces that make Pakistan.

Jinnahs was the lawer for the cause and cause and cause was driven by public.

Why does everyone believe that this separation was purely based on religion, Religion but also race was a factor, if there was no racial element there wouldnt be Bangladesh.

The racial groups of the the provinces have been mingling for over 1000 years and religion bonded them together, there cultural and racial heritage is unique and doesn't relate to the what is India regardless of religion.

Constitution if a referendum was given to public would be sharia, swift Islamic justice system, firm but fair police, Urdu as official language, abolishment of the colonial legal system.

The truth is ...

a) We have families in Pakistan Fuedal Families that were given Million and Million of Acres of Land who rule over Pakistan
b) We do not collect taxes on Agricultural entities
c) We Killed Liaqat Ali Khan , and Democracy was derailed
d) We did not ellect Fatima Jinah when we should have Came out on streets we did not
e) We continued to live in 4 provinces when we should have decentralized things to 40 smaller zones we did not
f) A rich man their child gets an education , different then what a poor man`s child gets
g) Divide of English Medium vs Urdu Medium
h) The cast system exists in Pakistan and there is division between people weather they like it or not
i) We are NOT ARAB decendents as some of the people proudly like to boast
j) We are not accepted as `Brothers in any Arab country`rather as slaves
k) There is Monarchy in place in Pakistan , a system where father comes to power and then his child or his related cousine
l) There are only 30 % educated people in country , and 70% have been left poor so they can be ruled over easily
m) Pakistan got themseleves involved with Americans and now we are paying the price.
o) All Pakistani Companies under perform and collectively they do not make enough money even as much as 1 company in USA like Microsoft or IBM or APPLE.
p) Crimes such as Rape, Kidnapping and murders are done routinely which show up on local newspapers all the time
q) There is no real justice in place
r) The hospitals are so badly run , that you need a referral in order to get a bed for patient
, yes sometimes 2-3 people are lieing on same bed (Government Hospitals)
s) We should begin our history , with tales of political workers who spent months in jail
in solitary confinement , we should tell them tales of what they did to achive Pakistan
Not this bull **** ÈSSAY , that is copied over in books rosy tales of how easy it all was
Perhaps when we will understand how hard it was .. peopel would value more of what they have


As stated , in my origional post we only have achived 1% of what Mohammad Ali Jinah proposed (Qaid-e-Azam) , and untill we achive that dream and reach our full potential up to 90-95% we truely cannot lie to ourselves or anyone else that yes we have achived our goals ..

Thank you ...


Only 1 % ... that is all we have achived of our potential Only 1 %


I think we can`t really speak on behalf of Qauid-e-Azam`s vision because that was a broad vision, the man was a Genius of his generation , a thinker a philosopher a highly educated man

His Vision ..

a) Secular
b) Social
c) Justice
d) Strong Military & Airforce
e) Complete unity
f) Focus on Education

Just handing out a Laptop , or building a cheap bridge or over pass , shopping mall , cimena
this is not what the vision was all about ..

Jinah (Qaid-e Azam) was a Great man he sacrificed his personal life for a vision , a goal to bring freedom to people who shared his idea .. what a great man he was


As stated before only 1% .. is what we have achived ..


People are waiting for a change , not another `Language based slogan`


If politicians are not going to fix , the items , I am sure this can be done thru civil war
its been done before ... in france, USA, Japan etc...but this war would be fought not to break up Pakistan but instead to , take back the Vision from our current fuedal lords and politicians and bring the Justice back in People`s hand ..

But lets hope The `RIGHT PEOPLE` get to power .. instead of the Same OLD people

Revolutions are a funny thing ... when it starts ... its just takes over every thing so quickly and fast