Arabic Coffee shop

[Indos]

That's great to hear.

Well, I have no problem with drawing inspiration from other madahib. I am just saying that the Shafi'i madahib has clearly shown throughout history to be tolerant. In other words it has a track record to back that claim up with. I agree. Fanatic beliefs in all shapes and forms are dangerous and harmful.

"Wahhabi movement"? You mean Hanbali fiqh right? The more conservative approach of Sunni Islam on certain areas?

So you yourself are a Shafi'i with tendencies of Sufi thoughts? Interesting. That was traditionally the practice in Hijaz and to some extent still is.

The biggest recent exponent of it was this thread cleric and man; He was not Shafi'i but Maliki.

Muhammad Alawi al-Maliki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the description regarding recent history, movements of people and how they are connected. Interesting.

This I bring you the wiki version about Muhammadiyah organization :

Muhammadiyah (Arabic: محمدية, followers of Muhammad. full name: Persyarikatan Muhammadiyah) is an Islamic organization in Indonesia. The organization was founded in 1912 by Ahmad Dahlan in the city of Yogyakarta as a reformist socioreligious movement, advocating ijtihad - individual interpretation of Qur'an and sunnah, as opposed to taqlid - the acceptance of the traditional interpretations propounded by the ulama.[1]

At the moment, Muhammadiyah is the second largest Islamic organization in Indonesia with 29 million members.[1] Although Muhammadiyah leaders and members are often actively involved in shaping the politics in Indonesia, Muhammadiyah is not a political party. It has devoted itself to social and educational activities.

History
On November 18, 1912, Ahmad Dahlan— a court official of the kraton of Yogyakarta[2] and an educated Muslim scholar from Mecca—established Muhammadiyah in Yogyakarta. There were a number of motives behind the establishment of this movement. Among the important ones are the backwardness of Muslim society and the penetration of Christianity. Ahmad Dahlan, much influenced by Egyptian reformist Muhammad 'Abduh, considered modernization and purification of religion from syncretic practices were very vital in reforming this religion. Therefore, since its beginning Muhammadiyah has been very concerned with maintaining tawhid, and refining monotheism in society.

From 1913 to 1918, Muhammadiyah established five Islamic Schools. In 1919 an Islamic high school, Hooge School Muhammadiyah was established.[3] In establishing schools, Muhammadiyah received significant help from the Boedi Oetomo, an important nationalist movement in Indonesia in the first half of the twentieth century, such as in the form of providing teachers.[4] Muhammadiyah has generally avoided politics. Unlike its traditionalist counterpart, the Nahdatul Ulama, it never formed a political party. Since its establishment, it has devoted itself to educational and social activities.

In 1925, two years after the death of Dahlan, Muhammadiyah only has 4,000 members, even has built 55 schools and two clinics in Surabaya and Yogyakarta.[5] After Abdul Karim Amrullah introduced the organisation to Minangkabau dynamic Moslem community, Muhammadiyah developed rapidly. In 1938, organisation claimed has 250,000 members, managed the 834 moques, 31 libraries, 1,774 schools, and 7,630 ulema. The Minangkabau Merchants spread organization to the entire of Indonesia.[6]

During the 1965-66 political turbulence and violence, Muhammadiyah declared the extermination of the "Gestapu/PKI" (the 30 September Movement and the Indonesian Communist Party) constituted Holy War, a view endorsed by other Islamic groups.[7] (see also: Indonesian killings of 1965-66). During the 1998 "Indonesian reformation", some parts of Muhammadiyah urged the leadership to form a party. Therefore, they - including Muhammadiyah chairman, Amien Rais, founded the National Mandate Party.

Although gaining large support from Muhammadiyah members, this party has no official relationship with Muhammadiyah. The leader of Muhammadiyah says the members of his organisation are free to align themselves with political parties of their choosing provided such parties have shared values with Muhammadiyah.[8]

Today, with 29 million members Muhammadiyah is the second largest Muslim organization in Indonesia, after Nahdlatul Ulama.

Doctrine
The central doctrine of Muhammadiyah is Sunni Islam. However, the main focus of the Muhammadiyah movement is to heighten people's sense of moral responsibility, purifying their faith to true Islam. It emphasizes the authority of the Qur'an and the Hadiths as supreme Islamic law that serves as the legitimate basis of the interpretation of religious belief and practices, in contrast to traditional practices where shariah law invested in religious school by ulema.

Muhammadiyah strongly opposes syncretism, where Islam in Indonesia has coalesced with animism (spirit worship) and with Hindu-Buddhist values that were spread among the villagers, including the upper classes, from the pre-Islamic period. Furthermore, Muhammadiyah opposes the tradition of Sufism that allows Sufi leader (shaykh) as the formal authority of Muslims.

Muhammadiyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[al-Hasani]

@Indos
I was more thinking along the lines of famous Indonesian Shafi'i scholars such as Ahmad Syafi'i Maarif and Hashim Muzadi.

Nahdlatul Ulama is the biggest Indonesian Islamic organization and they use Shafi'ii fiqh.

Nahdlatul Ulama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What are your most famous clerics today and what kind of fiqh do they tend to follow? I presume Shafi'i which the vast, vast majority of all South East Asians use.

Can you show me some reports or videos? I am curious. If in Bahasa no problem. Can you also post photos of mosques from Indonesia and traditional mosques?

Thank you.

 

[Indos]

@al-Hasani

I believe the majority of Indonesian follow Shafii, since Tasawuf preacher were the ones who spread Islam into Indonesia. As we all know that Shafii has more tendency to Tasawuf. For your information the old Ulama get united under NU banner, after the present of Muhammadiyah seems to threaten their existence.

Regarding Muhammadiyah, they tries to do research again about all laws based on the their Quran understanding and the authenticity of the Hadith, so it means they will use all Mazhab once more, and then try to advocate Islam version that they said as the cleaner and get more backing from strong Hadith and also rational. Muhammadiyah for instant uses Hisab in determining the start and the end of Ramadhan.

Well, actually the Ulama are many, each Ulama tap different segment of society. For me, I like Hamka (I have posted his picture before) interpretation of Islam from his Quran Tafseer (Tafsir Al-Azhar). In general organization like NU and Muhammadiyah are much more powerful than an individual preacher.

For people like me, I learn Islam from many books. And Indonesia bookstore has so much classic Islam book in their inventory. Before Hamka was so famous, according to my parents, if he is going to give a preach, so many people will come.

Currently, the recent famous is Quraish Shihab. He is also writing another Quran Tafseer by using his excellence Arab words understanding. He is graduated from Al-Azhar University at Egypt and has become professor. We can see his teaching from TV. Before, he was appearing every week on TV.




Quraish Shihab

Please check this Thread https://defence.pk/threads/sufism-tasawuf-islamic- mysticism.317357/ if you want to know about my interest in Sufism

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani

I believe the majority of Indonesian follow Shafii, since Tasawuf preacher were the ones who spread Islam into Indonesia. As we all know that Shafii has more tendency to Tasawuf. For your information the old Ulama get united under NU banner, after the present of Muhammadiyah seems to threaten their existence.

Regarding Muhammadiyah, they tries to do research again about all laws based on the their Quran understanding and the authenticity of the Hadith, so it means they will use all Mazhab once more, and then try to advocate Islam version that they said as the cleaner and get more backing from strong Hadith and also rational. Muhammadiyah for instant uses Hisab in determining the start and the end of Ramadhan.

Well, actually the Ulama are many, each Ulama tap different segment of society. For me, I like Hamka (I have posted his picture before) interpretation of Islam from his Quran Tafseer (Tafsir Al-Azhar). In general organization like NU and Muhammadiyah are much more powerful than an individual preacher.

For people like me, I learn Islam from many books. And Indonesia bookstore has so much classic Islam book in their inventory. Before Hamka was so famous, according to my parents, if he is going to give a preach, so many people will come.

Currently, the recent famous is Quraish Shihab. He is also writing another Quran Tafseer by using his excellence Arab words understanding. He is graduated from Al-Azhar University at Egypt and has become professor. We can see his teaching from TV. Before, he was appearing every week on TV.


View attachment 129949

Quraish Shihab

Please check this Thread https://defence.pk/threads/sufism-tasawuf-islamic- mysticism.317357/ if you want to know about my interest in Sufism

Thank you brother for your very detailed answer as usual. Actually it is healthy that Indonesia uses influences from various madahib and Islamic movements as long as they stick to the basics of Sunni Islam. Sufism has been an important part of Sunni Islam for a long time and also the Shafi'i fiqh.

Maybe you have heard about those clerics before?

Habib al-Jifri and Habib Umar bin Hafiz from the famous Dar al-Mustafa madrasah in Tarim, Yemen. They follow the traditional Shafi'i madahib. It is a very famous madrasah in the Muslim world and Muslim students from across the planet arrive.

Welcome to Tarim and Dar al-Mustafa | Orientation Kit for students and families intending on visiting or residing in Tarim, HadramawtWelcome to Tarim and Dar al-Mustafa | Orientation Kit for students and families intending on visiting or residing in Tarim, Hadramawt

According to the great Indian Hanafi scholar, Shah Waliullah, the Shafi'i madhab is distinguished among all the Sunni schools in having the most illustrious Islamic scholars in history, in all fields, among its followers.[5] As al-Shafi'i emphasized the importance of muttasil (connected) and Ahad (singular) hadith whilst undermining the relevance of mursal (skipped) hadith, his madhab found particular favour among hadith scholars.

Shafi'i - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This documentary you should watch when you get time. There are English subtitles.

You should also read about this now unfortunately dead scholar and some of his work;

Muhammad Alawi al-Maliki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I often mention him when I discuss such issues but this is because he was my family's favorite cleric or one of them. My father made me read his works at early age. I can give you PDF links if you are interested.

 

[Indos]

@al-Hasani

Thanks brother, I will try to look at it .........

 

[1000]

Erdogan slams modern 'Lawrence of Arabias' in MidEast | News , Middle East | THE DAILY STAR

 

[Indos]

@al-Hasani

Sorry forget

Quraish Shihab at Metro TV during Ramadhan (he always had a program in Ramadhan every day since long time ago)

This Mosque is historical. Under Muhammadiyah control and can be seen as the symbol of Islamist Political struggle in Indonesia.







Masjid Al-Azhar, Jakarta

 

[F117]

@1000

What are you comments about this?

The Iranian Arabs are very close to the Southern Iraqi Arabs and not only KSA/Kuwait.

This is contradictory to what our friend Nasrallah says;

Iran is behaving badly as usual despite having been an Arab colony for the past 1400 years.

If they continue their criminal behavior the Arab world should team up and invade them once again and give them an unforgettable spanking that might send the Farsis back to their original homeland, the barren, flat and landlocked Pontic Steppe.

If Americans, Brits, Germans, Australians and others are interfering the Arab world, then why can't we? We have the right to boss around our subjects.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani

Sorry forget

Quraish Shihab at Metro TV during Ramadhan (he always had a program in Ramadhan every day since long time ago)

This Mosque is historical. Under Muhammadiyah control and can be seen as the symbol of Islamist Political struggle in Indonesia.

View attachment 130020

View attachment 130023

View attachment 130024

Very good. Thank you once again!

What do you mean with "symbol of Islamist political struggle in Indonesia". Can you explain this? I thought that the various Sunni Muslim organizations, vast majority being Shafi'i, and all almost exclusively Sunni Muslim would have agreed on most issues? I mean those struggles must be in terms of theological disagreements and politics because Indonesia has not been hit by inter-related Muslim fights. Actual fights I mean as we see in other regions of the Muslim world were sects unfortunately fight against each other. But that is even often based on politics also.

Can you post some of the old mosques in Indoensia (the most significant) and tell us shortly about their history, who founded them etc. It would be interesting.

Also Arab merchants from Hijaz and Yemen (mostly) created the first Muslim communities in Sumatra right and spread Islam first there right? I mean before it spread to Java? Or how about that story? If you know I mean.

Take your time and thanks in advance.

If Americans, Brits, Germans, Australians and others are interfering the Arab world, then why can't we? We have the right to boss around our subjects.

I did not know that a 1400 year old Arab colony can "boss around" their militarily, culturally, linguistic and religious conquerors. Even ethnically we have influenced you and millions of Arabs now live in Iran and many more have partial Arab ancestry.

Well, the whole world interferes in Iran. After all you are North Korea II and sanctioned by almost the entire world. Besides it is only normal that there are interferences in the Arab world when we talk about 25 countries almost from the Atlantic Ocean to the Arabian Sea and from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean and Southern Hemisphere (Comoros).

Listen to the Arab Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah and what he says about Iran. This is your ally.

 

[Full Moon]

If Americans, Brits, Germans, Australians and others are interfering the Arab world, then why can't we? We have the right to boss around our subjects.

You better keep yourself to yourself, and save what remained from your own resources to your own people. You will never be the power you dream of, simply because you can't sustain its financial consequences. Iran is heading towards being an overly populated and poorly managed country. That's the only guaranteed thing you are eventually getting.

 

[al-Hasani]

You better keep yourself to yourself, and save what remains from your own resources to your own people. You will never be the power you dream of, simply because you can't sustain its financial consequences. Iran is heading towards being an overly populated and poorly managed country. That's the only guaranteed thing you are getting eventually.

He thinks that tiny Iran and it's 40 million farsis can even conquer 1 single Arab country let alone all 22 Arab countries and subject the 450-500 million Arabs across the world.

See post 4076 and the video by Nasrallah.



Anyway they have been an Arab colony for the past 1400 years. I see nothing "Iranian" about Iran. Even their language is basically half Arabic and their alphabet is pure Arabic outside 3 new additions. Must be really painful. Can't imagine being in their place. Luckily we never were

Anyway let us return to the topic. Not interested in silly debates in this thread at least.

Look past this @Indos You know PDF.

 

[Indos]

@al-Hasani

Islamist Political Struggle in Indonesia should be looked from Masyumi history :

The mosque is just symbol, as before the mosque was under "Hamka" influence, Hamka can be seen as the ultimate Muslim leader who fight against Soekarno before because of Soekarno tendency toward Communism.

From Wiki :

Masyumi Party (Indonesian: Partai Majelis Syuro Muslimin Indonesia) (Council of Indonesian Muslim Associations) was a major Islamic political party in Indonesia during the Liberal Democracy Era in Indonesia. It was banned in 1960 by President Sukarno for supporting the PRRI rebellion.

Masyumi was the name given to an organization established by the occupying Japanese in 1943 in an attempt to control Islam in Indonesia.[1] Following the Indonesian Declaration of Independence, on 7 November 1945 a new organization called Masyumi was formed. In less than a year it became the largest political party in Indonesia. It included the Islamic organizations such as Nahdlatul Ulama and Muhammadiyah. During the period of liberal democracy era, Masyumi members had seats in the People's Representative Council and the party supplied prime ministers such as Muhammad Natsir and Burhanuddin Harahap.[2]


President Sukarno at a 1954 Masyumi convention

Masyumi came second in the 1955 election. It won 7,903,886 votes, representing 20.9% of the popular vote,[3] resulting in 57 seats in parliament. Masyumi was popular in modernist Islamic regions such as West Sumatra, Jakarta, and Aceh. 51.3% of Masyumi's vote came from Java, but Masyumi was the dominant party for regions outside Java, and it established itself as the leading party for the one third of people living outside Java.[4][5] In Sumatra, Kalimantan, and Sulawesi, Masyumi gained a significant share of the vote. In Sumatra, 42.8% voted for Masyumi.[6] while the figure for Kalimantan was 32%,[7] and for Sulawesi 33.9%.[8]

In 1958, some Masyumi members joined the PRRI rebellion against Sukarno. As a result, in 1960 Masyumi (and the Socialist Party) were banned.[9]

Following the banning, Masyumi members and followers established the Crescent Star Family (Indonesian: Keluarga Bulan Bintang) to campaign for Islamic shariah law and teachings. An attempt was made to reestablish the party following the transition to the New Order, but this was not permitted. After the fall of Suharto in 1998, another attempt was made to revive the party name, but eventually Masyumi followers and others established the Crescent Star Party, which contested the legislative elections in 1999, 2004 and 2009.[10]

Actually the last paragraph don't really correct. In essence Masyumi follower create all Muslim Parties in Indonesia now, in which if they joined together will have 30 % voting.



Istiqlal Mosque

After the Indonesian National Revolution 1945–1949, followed by the acknowledgement of Indonesian independence from The Netherlands in 1949, there was a growing idea to build a national mosque for the new republic, which had the largest Muslim population in the world.[2] The idea of constructing a grand Indonesian national mosque was launched by Wahid Hasyim, Indonesia's first minister for religions affairs,[3] and Anwar Cokroaminoto, later appointed as the chairman of the Masjid Istiqlal Foundation. The committee for the construction of the Istiqlal Mosque, led by Cokroaminoto, was founded in 1953. He proposed the idea of a national mosque to Indonesian President Sukarno, who welcomed the idea and later helped to supervise the mosque's construction. In 1954 the committee appointed Sukarno technical chief supervisor.[4]:106

Several locations were proposed; Mohammad Hatta, Indonesian vice president, suggested that the mosque should be built near residential areas on Thamrin avenue, on a plot where Hotel Indonesia stands today.[5] However, Sukarno insisted that a national mosque should be located near the most important square of the nation, near the Merdeka Palace.

This is in accordance with the Javanese tradition that the kraton (king's palace) and masjid agung (grand mosque) should be located around the alun-alun (main Javanese city square), which means it must be near Merdeka Square.[6] Sukarno also insisted that the national mosque should be built near Jakarta Cathedral and Immanuel Church, to symbolize religious harmony and tolerance as promoted in Pancasila (the Indonesian national philosophy and the five principles which constitute the philosophical foundation of Indonesian nationhood).[7] It was later decided that the national mosque was going to be built in Wilhelmina park, in front of the Jakarta Cathedral. To make way for the mosque, the Citadel Prins Frederick, built in 1837, was demolished.[8][9]

Sukarno actively followed the planning and construction of the mosque, including acting as the chairman of the jury for the mosque design competition held in 1955. The design submitted by Frederich Silaban, a Christian architect from North Sumatra, with the theme "Ketuhanan" (English: "Divinity") was chosen as the winner. The foundation stone was laid by Sukarno on 24 August 1961;[10][11] the construction took 17 years. President Suharto inaugurated it as the national mosque on 22 February 1978.[10][12] As of 2013[update] it is the largest mosque in the region of Southeast Asia, with a capacity of over 120,000.[13][14]:65

Istiqlal Mosque, Jakarta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Indos]

@al-Hasani

Yup, Islam was first established in Sumatra. You might get interested to read the story of our first Islamic Kingdom :



Samudera Pasai, also known as Samudera and Pasai sometimes called Samudera Darussalam was a Muslim harbour kingdom on the north coast of Sumatra from the 13th to the 15th centuries CE. It was believed the word Samudera derived from Samudra meaning ocean in Sanskrit. According to Hikayat Raja-raja Pasai, it was said Merah Silu saw an ant as big as a cat, he caught it and ate it and he named the place Samandara. King Merah Silu later converted to Islam, known as Malik ul Salih, he was the sultan in year 1267 CE.

Little evidence has been left to allow for historical study of the kingdom.[1]

History

Pasai exported its culture, and most importantly its language — an early form of Malay written in the Jawi alphabet — to a number of islands. Later, this language became the lingua franca among traders in what is now Indonesia and Malaysia.

Arab and Indian Muslims had traded in Indonesia and China for many centuries. A Muslim tombstone in eastern Java bears a date corresponding to 1082. But substantial evidence of Islam in Indonesia begins only in northern Sumatra at the end of the 13th century. Two small Muslim trading kingdoms existed by that time at Pasai and Peureulak or Perlak. A 1297 royal tomb at Samudra is inscribed entirely in Arabic. By the 15th century several harbour kingdoms developed, all ruled by local Muslim princes, from the north coast of Java and elsewhere to as far east as Ternate and Tidore in Maluku. Marco Polo spent five months here, he had Ferlec, Basma, and Samara (Samudera) mentioned in his travel story. Another famous traveller Ibn Battuta on his way to China stayed 15 days at Samudera.

The establishment of the first Muslim centres in Indonesia was probably a result of commercial circumstances. By the 13th century the collapse of Srivijayan power, drew foreign traders harbours on the northern Sumatran shores of the Bay of Bengal, safe from the pirate lairs at the southern end of the Strait of Malacca. Northern Sumatra had a hinterland rich in gold and forest produce, and pepper was being cultivated at the beginning of the 15th century. It was accessible to all the merchants of the archipelago who wanted to meet ships from the Indian Ocean.


Cakra Donya bell is a gift from Zheng He during his voyage to Pasai.

In the year 1345, Ibn Battuta, a Moroccan traveler visited Samudra Pasai where he notes in his travel log that the ruler of Samudera Pasai was a pious Muslim, who performed his religious duties in utmost zeal. The madh'hab he observed was Imam Al-Shafi‘i. At that time Samudera Pasai was the end of Dar al-Islam for no territory east of this was ruled by a Muslim ruler. He praised the kindness and hospitality demonstrated by the sultan of Samudera Pasai. Here he stayed for about two weeks in the wooden walled town as a guest of the sultan, and then the sultan provided him with supplies and sent him on his way on one of sultan's own junks to China.[2]

By the end of the 14th century, Samudra-Pasai had become a wealthy commercial centre, giving way in the early 15th century to the better protected harbour of Malacca on the south-west coast of the Malay Peninsula. Majapahit attacked and looted the place in the middle of the 14th century.

Pasai's economic and political power depended almost entirely on foreigners. Muslim traders and teachers probably participated in its administration from the beginning and were bound to introduce religious practices that made them feel at home. The first Muslim beachheads in Indonesia, especially Pasai, were to a considerable extent genuine Muslim creations that commanded the loyalty of the local population and encouraged scholarly activities.

Similar new harbour kingdoms formed on the northern coast of Java. Tomé Pires, author of the Suma Oriental, writing not long after 1511, stresses the obscure ethnic origins of the founders of Cheribon, Demak, Japara, and Gresik. These Javanese coastal states served commerce with India and China and especially with Malacca, an importer of Javanese rice. The rulers of Malacca, despite their prestigious Srivijayan origin, accepted Islam precisely in order to attract Muslim and Javanese traders to their port.

The Portuguese occupied Pasai in 1521, 10 years after their conquest of Malacca. Through the Portuguese, the place become known in Europe as Pacem.[3] Later, the Acehnese took control of Pasai.

Samudera Pasai Sultanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Indos]

@al-Hasani

Aceh Girl (Aceh / Samudera Pasai Centre)



Cut Nabila Azhar

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani

Aceh Girl (Aceh / Samudera Pasai Centre)

View attachment 130157

Cut Nabila Azhar

Man, all those millions of Arab-Indonesian girls tend to be very beautiful. You have yourself posted some of them and I have seen some too, LOL.

Anyway I am content that I remembered the main points of Islamic history in Indonesia. Basically the reason why Indonesia belongs to the Shafi'i fiqh is because specifically Hijazi and Yemeni merchants, sailors, scholars, soldiers, bureaucrats, Sufis, Sadah families, ruling families etc. settled and spread Islam in Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei etc. Some of the ruling families (historically) and some of the modern-day "Sultans" of Malaysia descent from those first settlers.

Similar why most Muslims in Southern India, especially Kerala, are Shafi'i.

Brother, can you please post some photos of traditional mosques in Indonesia? My father told me that many of the mosques in Indonesia were wooden with beautiful decorations. Is this truth?

Also please watch that documentary below if you got the time;

Sumatra girls are also beautiful from what I have seen. Many look different from other Indonesians? Do you agree with this?

KSA and the Arab world must get even stronger ties with Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei and South East Asia in general. This should be one of the highest foreign priorities. You also have a strong military, we have many ties with you on many fronts (especially people from the Arabian Peninsula), you are fellow Muslims and very friendly people and great areas to do business with and booming economies. I hope to visit South East Asia soon.

Is there a Indonesian forum on PDF? I cannot find one. Or only that South East Asia section?

Do we have any Malaysian members?