Arabic Coffee shop

[patriotpakistan]

Congrats on becoming a think tank.

How do you become ThinkTank anyway? I've got good analytical skills and knowledge. I can be useful in that respect.

 

[Falcon29]

How do you become ThinkTank anyway? I've got good analytical skills and knowledge. I can be useful in that respect.

I think you may become one in the future. I currently won't because I am the only one dealing with Palestinian topic so I have to deal with hordes of pro-Israel lunatics. Which forced me into cursing many times.

That's because most of the posts I deal with are people with lame rhetoric. No factual debates. Cheap pro-Israeli rhetoric. It's not even an attempt to be good.

 

[patriotpakistan]

I think you may become one in the future. I currently won't because I am the only one dealing with Palestinian topic so I have to deal with hordes of pro-Israel lunatics. Which forced me into cursing many times.

That's because most of the posts I deal with are people with lame rhetoric. No factual debates. Cheap pro-Israeli rhetoric. It's not even an attempt to be good.

Thanks buddy! And don't feel like you are alone dealing with these Israeli trolls. Someone friendly is always watching and assessing the strength of their propaganda.

 

[Saho]

Ana Ga3an!

 

[Falcon29]

Ana Ga3an!

3ala 3aynee wa rasi ya basha

 

[Falcon29]

@A.P. Richelieu

You say UN refugee sites aren't protected areas? What do you mean by that and where is your source for that? They are civilian areas and it's a war crime, deliberate murder.

Where are these three times you're talking about? They said there was one incident in northern Gaza in an empty site. And that was being investigated by local authorities. What does that have to do with Israeli attacks on UN refugee sites(All examined/searched by UN employees) in which UN coordinated with Israel on locations 17 and 32 times? And which the US, EU, and UN all called 'unacceptable actions', etc...?

What videos are talking about? There has been no such video of firing from hospitals and there's no such thing as rocket fire from the vicinity where a ground operation is taking place. Israel had no excuse for it. There is a thread on fabricated photos/etc...:

UN: Israel is posting false pictures/videos to justify attacks on schools

And they also bombed a playground in the Shifa hospital. I already debunked false IDF contradictory claims for that.

...................
If you notice, Israel has made up four different lies regarding their attack on a playground which killed at least 10 children. Here are the four lies:

Five soldiers confirmed killed, four in mortar attack; Netanyahu warns op may take time | The Times of Israel

Gantz says Hamas responsible for Shifa Hospital blast: First lie

Second lie:
Islamic Jihad behind Shifa explosion — IDF
The army says that the Islamic Jihad is responsible for the blast at the Shifa hospital and at a nearby playground in the Gaza Strip, according to Ynet.

............

Army chief and army spokesmen contradict each other statement.

Lie number 3:
IDF ✔ @IDFSpokesperson Follow
A short while ago, militants in Gaza fired rockets at Israel. 1 of them hit Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza. The other hit Al-Shati refugee camp.

......................

Here they are saying a salvo of rockets were fired but one fell.... yet we know no such rocket can do such massive damage but another contradiction...

Lie Number 4:
Hamas rocket said to have 100 kg warhead
The Hamas Fajr-5 rocket aimed at central Israel, which was fired from a playground outside the Shifa hospital and exploded on the site causing casualties, had at least a 100 kg (220 lbs) warhead, Channel 2 reports

....................

They say a large rocket was fired and exploded on site. This is a lie, since earlier they said a salvo were fired and one fell. Again contradicting each their own statements.

......

Big rockets don't fail like that and aren't anywhere near this hospital. They are deep north of Gaza.

.............

Notice how we went from story to another to cover up IDF crimes.
..............

Journalists at the hospital all said said it was an Israeli drone strike. Israel deliberately killed children to terrorize the children of Gaza and terrorize the civilian population.

..............

The rest of your post was meaningless 'no on knows for sure', etcc..evasive tactics to escape reality. But, when it comes to Israeli allegations proven to be false you claim they are one hundred percent reliable accounts while sitting in Sweden.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

@A.P. Richelieu

You say UN refugee sites aren't protected areas? What do you mean by that and where is your source for that? They are civilian areas and it's a war crime, deliberate murder.

"Protected Areas" is a term defined in the Fourth Geneva Convention.
There are rules on how such areas are created and how they should be treated.
A "Protected Area" must not have any military installations nor soldiers
with the exception of wounded. They may not be defended, nor attacked
and thus have higher protection than purely civilian buildings.

UN is trying to establish the UN schools as "Protected Areas" by publishing the locations,
but they do not follow the rules for doing so, and it is utterly impractical to designate
single buildings as "Protected Areas".

Where are these three times you're talking about? They said there was one incident in northern Gaza in an empty site. And that was being investigated by local authorities. What does that have to do with Israeli attacks on UN refugee sites(All examined/searched by UN employees) in which UN coordinated with Israel on locations 17 and 32 times? And which the US, EU, and UN all called 'unacceptable actions', etc...?

There were rockets found in UN (or ex-UN) buildings three times during the conflict,
according to the UNRWA website.

Rockets found in UNRWA school, for third time | The Times of Israel

What videos are talking about? There has been no such video of firing from hospitals and there's no such thing as rocket fire from the vicinity where a ground operation is taking place. Israel had no excuse for it. There is a thread on fabricated photos/etc...:

Video published in the Israeli Aggression on Gaza thread.
I did not even claim it was authentic in my original post. (Didn't claim they were false either)
The fact that videos may be fake makes professional investigations neccessary,
before judgement can be made.

As for rocket firing, it would be stupid to fire strategic weapons at the front of the battle,
but there are other weapons like mortars, machine guns, AT missiles that can be fired from
positions which causes UN school casualties if fire is returned.
Whether that happened or not, only investigations will tell.

UN: Israel is posting false pictures/videos to justify attacks on schools

And they also bombed a playground in the Shifa hospital. I already debunked false IDF contradictory claims for that.

...................
If you notice, Israel has made up four different lies regarding their attack on a playground which killed at least 10 children. Here are the four lies:

Five soldiers confirmed killed, four in mortar attack; Netanyahu warns op may take time | The Times of Israel

Gantz says Hamas responsible for Shifa Hospital blast: First lie

Second lie:
Islamic Jihad behind Shifa explosion — IDF
The army says that the Islamic Jihad is responsible for the blast at the Shifa hospital and at a nearby playground in the Gaza Strip, according to Ynet.

............

Army chief and army spokesmen contradict each other statement.

Lie number 3:
IDF ✔ @IDFSpokesperson Follow
A short while ago, militants in Gaza fired rockets at Israel. 1 of them hit Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza. The other hit Al-Shati refugee camp.

......................

Here they are saying a salvo of rockets were fired but one fell.... yet we know no such rocket can do such massive damage but another contradiction...

Lie Number 4:
Hamas rocket said to have 100 kg warhead
The Hamas Fajr-5 rocket aimed at central Israel, which was fired from a playground outside the Shifa hospital and exploded on the site causing casualties, had at least a 100 kg (220 lbs) warhead, Channel 2 reports

....................

They say a large rocket was fired and exploded on site. This is a lie, since earlier they said a salvo were fired and one fell. Again contradicting each their own statements.

......

Big rockets don't fail like that and aren't anywhere near this hospital. They are deep north of Gaza.

.............

Notice how we went from story to another to cover up IDF crimes.
..............
Journalists at the hospital all said said it was an Israeli drone strike. Israel deliberately killed children to terrorize the children of Gaza and terrorize the civilian population.

..............

The rest of your post was meaningless 'no on knows for sure', etcc..evasive tactics to escape reality. But, when it comes to Israeli allegations proven to be false you claim they are one hundred percent reliable accounts while sitting in Sweden.

Nope, I just say that depending on circumstances where I have little or no knowledge,
Israelis may or may not have committed crimes.

You, without any more first hand information claim that crimes MUST have been committed.

What I do claim with 100 % certaincy is that Palestinian Rockets fired on Israeli cities are war crimes,
because there are no conditions which would make them legal.

 

[Falcon29]

"Protected Areas" is a term defined in the Fourth Geneva Convention.
There are rules on how such areas are created and how they should be treated.
A "Protected Area" must not have any military installations nor soldiers
with the exception of wounded. They may not be defended, nor attacked
and thus have higher protection than purely civilian buildings.

UN is trying to establish the UN schools as "Protected Areas" by publishing the locations,
but they do not follow the rules for doing so, and it is utterly impractical to designate
single buildings as "Protected Areas".

They are protected areas filled with refugees which the Israeli military evacuated. Following what rules?

There were rockets found in UN (or ex-UN) buildings three times during the conflict,
according to the UNRWA website.

I already explained this to you earlier.

I did not even claim it was authentic in my original post. (Didn't claim they were false either)
The fact that videos may be fake makes professional investigations neccessary,
before judgement can be made.

There was already investigations done. Another thread was just created about the fake video regarding the Wafa hopsital.

As for rocket firing, it would be stupid to fire strategic weapons at the front of the battle,
but there are other weapons like mortars, machine guns, AT missiles that can be fired from
positions which causes UN school casualties if fire is returned.
Whether that happened or not, only investigations will tell.

You claim to know little or nothing yet here are claiming that anti-tank missiles were fired from 'positions which can UN refugee site casualties'. What in the world is that supposed to mean? Wow, you're unbelievable. Shows how desperate your arguments have become.

Nope, I just say that depending on circumstances where I have little or no knowledge,
Israelis may or may not have committed crimes.

Israel did commit plenty of war crimes.

You, without any more first hand information claim that crimes MUST have been committed.

I already gave you information that Israel committed war crimes. So did the UN, Amnesty International and Human Rights watch. Unlawful strikes equal war crimes. No debate about it.

What I do claim with 100 % certaincy is that Palestinian Rockets fired on Israeli cities are war crimes,
because there are no conditions which would make them legal.

And your argument goes both ways. Israeli generals openly state the goal of their 'operation' is to bring Gaza back another 50 years. 1/3 of Gaza was destroyed, they say targeting civilian infrastructure is the sole purpose of the assault on Gaza. There's no question about that. Therefore, if you have 100% certaincy that Palestinian firing are war crimes then you also have 100% certaincy that Israeli firing are war crimes. The difference between the two is that Israel has massive firepower, international obligations, and attacks people it's occuiped for decades in an open air prison with the intent of bringing Gaza back decades/keep Palestinians living in misery until they leave(according to some Israeli ministers) and to keep them from having any hope. While the Palestinians are resisting an occupation/devestating assault with the little firework means they have to achieve their basic rights.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

They are protected areas filled with refugees which the Israeli military evacuated. Following what rules?

A protected area is not the same as a "Protected Area" as defined in the Fourth Geneva Convention.

I already explained this to you earlier.

No, you lied about the number of incidents.

There was already investigations done. Another thread was just created about the fake video regarding the Wafa hopsital.

You claim to know little or nothing yet here are claiming that anti-tank missiles were fired from 'positions which can UN refugee site casualties'. What in the world is that supposed to mean? Wow, you're unbelievable. Shows how desperate your arguments have become.

Again you lie. I am talking about possible circumstances, under which
firing at a UN school would be deemed legal. That is very different from claiming
that something specific happened.

Israel did commit plenty of war crimes.

So You claim, and I am waiting for proper investigations.

I already gave you information that Israel committed war crimes. So did the UN, Amnesty International and Human Rights watch. Unlawful strikes equal war crimes. No debate about it.

So You claim, and I am waiting for proper investigations, which must include
the Israeli opinion. Your previous source claiming that Israelis commit war crimes because
they fire at UN schools show that some UN representatives have little knowledge of
International Law. Same goes for HRW, and maybe also for Amnesty International.
Amnesty do have a much better credibility than HRW.

And your argument goes both ways. Israeli generals openly state the goal of their 'operation' is to bring Gaza back another 50 years. 1/3 of Gaza was destroyed, they say targeting civilian infrastructure is the sole purpose of the assault on Gaza. There's no question about that. Therefore, if you have 100% certaincy that Palestinian firing are war crimes then you also have 100% certaincy that Israeli firing are war crimes. The difference between the two is that Israel has massive firepower, international obligations, and attacks people it's occuiped for decades in an open air prison with the intent of bringing Gaza back decades/keep Palestinians living in misery until they leave(according to some Israeli ministers) and to keep them from having any hope. While the Palestinians are resisting an occupation/devestating assault with the little firework means they have to achieve their basic rights.

Show some Israeli sources making the claim that targetting purely civilians is the goal of the operation communicated by the government to the IDF. I doubt that you will find that.
While there are nutcases making all kinds of statements, that is not official policy.

 

[Falcon29]

A protected area is not the same as a "Protected Area" as defined in the Fourth Geneva Convention.

What are you up to? Are you trying to justify a war crime? UN refugee sites in which their coordinates were relayed to IDF 32 times that are attacked are crimes against humanity.

No, you lied about the number of incidents.

No I didn't, I asked you to verify. Only two incidents showed up which TimesofIsrael calls 3. One of them they have no proof of.

Again you lie. I am talking about possible circumstances, under which
firing at a UN school would be deemed legal. That is very different from claiming
that something specific happened.

You're an apologist who has no factual basis. There's no relevance for your 'possible circumstances'. I didn't lie about anything, you made a statements.

So You claim, and I am waiting for proper investigations.

No, I don't claim. Every human rights organization does 'claim' citing international law. And they know their work a lot better than you do.

Israel is doing everything to prevent human rights organizations from being able to gather conclusive evidence of war crimes:
Israeli hinders Gaza probe: Rights groups | Oman Observer

.............
Anyways, UN probe into Gaza will begin in October. And even if they do conclude Israel comitted war crimes on a massive scale you'd still deny it.

So You claim, and I am waiting for proper investigations, which must include
the Israeli opinion. Your previous source claiming that Israelis commit war crimes because
they fire at UN schools show that some UN representatives have little knowledge of
International Law. Same goes for HRW, and maybe also for Amnesty International.
Amnesty do have a much better credibility than HRW.

Israel commits many different war crimes. The most common and major ones are strikes destroying homes/families of various ranking members of the Palestinian Resistance. Amnesty is just as critical as HRW. Israeli opinion is irrelevant, Israel is refusing to cooperate. But, Israel shouldn't investigate its own 'alleged' war crimes. It should be independent.

Show some Israeli sources making the claim that targetting purely civilians is the goal of the operation communicated by the government to the IDF. I doubt that you will find that.
While there are nutcases making all kinds of statements, that is not official policy.

Yes it is, just look at 'Dahaiya doctrine'. And the observations on the ground in Gaza. I can cite numerous reports for that. And since you already acknowledge the numerous ministers you call 'nutcases' then I won't link that.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

What are you up to? Are you trying to justify a war crime? UN refugee sites in which their coordinates were relayed to IDF 32 times that are attacked are crimes against humanity.

No I didn't, I asked you to verify. Only two incidents showed up which TimesofIsrael calls 3. One of them they have no proof of.

You're an apologist who has no factual basis. There's no relevance for your 'possible circumstances'. I didn't lie about anything, you made a statements.

No, I don't claim. Every human rights organization does 'claim' citing international law. And they know their work a lot better than you do.

Israel is doing everything to prevent human rights organizations from being able to gather conclusive evidence of war crimes:
Israeli hinders Gaza probe: Rights groups | Oman Observer

.............
Anyways, UN probe into Gaza will begin in October. And even if they do conclude Israel comitted war crimes on a massive scale you'd still deny it.

Israel commits many different war crimes. The most common and major ones are strikes destroying homes/families of various ranking members of the Palestinian Resistance. Amnesty is just as critical as HRW. Israeli opinion is irrelevant, Israel is refusing to cooperate. But, Israel shouldn't investigate its own 'alleged' war crimes. It should be independent.

Yes it is, just look at 'Dahaiya doctrine'. And the observations on the ground in Gaza. I can cite numerous reports for that. And since you already acknowledge the numerous ministers you call 'nutcases' then I won't link that.

The fact that the UN publishes the location of a school does not give them any additional protection over any other civilian building. If Israelis judge that there are military targets inside or in the vicinity, they can legally be acted upon.

If proper procedures are followed to create a "Protective Area" according to the Fourth Geneva Convention"
then it has a HIGHER level of protection than a civilian building.

I have stated that for each incident where civilians are killed, hospitals or schools are attacked,
only a proper investigation involving Israel, Palestinians as well as credible unbiased representatives
from the international community must be allowed to run its course, before judgement is passed.

It is quite obvious that there is a lot of people involved in International Organisations
making public announcements, that know a lot less than I do.

Is Israel obstructing ? - Yes, and so is Hamas.

Is attacking houses of Hamas members a war crime? Not neccessarily.
Each soldier of Hamas is a military target. If all Hamas soldiers sleep at home,
during hot conflict, then for sure the homes are military targets.

When I speak of nutcases, I do not neccessarily refer to ministers.
Liebermann possibly an exception.

 

[Falcon29]

The fact that the UN publishes the location of a school does not give them any additional protection over any other civilian building. If Israelis judge that there are military targets inside or in the vicinity, they can legally be acted upon.

We are not talking about other buildings. We are talking about attacks on refugee sites. There were no military targets inside the school. IN the vicinity can mean a lot of things. You're the only who disagrees with the whole world.

Gaza school attack denounced as 'criminal act' by UN chief | World news | theguardian.com
US calls Israeli attack on UN school 'disgraceful' - Yahoo News

If proper procedures are followed to create a "Protective Area" according to the Fourth Geneva Convention"
then it has a HIGHER level of protection than a civilian building.

Cite these documents you're taking about. So you're claiming this is some kind of super duper protection status. And exactly what? I don't get where you're going with this.

I have stated that for each incident where civilians are killed, hospitals or schools are attacked,
only a proper investigation involving Israel, Palestinians as well as credible unbiased representatives
from the international community must be allowed to run its course, before judgement is passed.

You don't need to investigate an official Israeli military policy. Targeted attacks on civilian homes(not due to firing or weapons, due to a family having a member in a Resistance faction) requires no investigation. Whole families were wiped out during attacks like these. Thousands of attacks took place like that. Almost all times the members were active in the battlefield, the attacks were intended to terrorize other Palestinians from joining resistance factions.

It is quite obvious that there is a lot of people involved in International Organisations
making public announcements, that know a lot less than I do.

You are biased, human rights watch/amnesty aren't biased and they study international law. And cite exact references to international law supporting their claims.

Is Israel obstructing ? - Yes, and so is Hamas.

No, Hamas isn't. Israel is preventing human rights organizations from getting into Gaza to investigate Israeli war crimes.

Is attacking houses of Hamas members a war crime? Not neccessarily.
Each soldier of Hamas is a military target. If all Hamas soldiers sleep at home,
during hot conflict, then for sure the homes are military targets.

Yes they are war crimes. In the same way you categorise Palestinain rocket firing.THis is an early example to clarify. The remainder of the assault saw thousands more homes of families being targeted.

Israel/Palestine: Unlawful Israeli Airstrikes Kill Civilians | Human Rights Watch

On July 11, an Israeli attack on the Fun Time Beach café near the city of Khan Yunis killed nine civilians, including two 15-year-old children, and wounded three, including a 13-year-old boy. An Israeli military spokesman said the attack was “targeting a terrorist” but presented no evidence that any of those at the café, who had gathered to watch a World Cup match, were participating in military operations, or that the killing of one alleged “terrorist” in a crowded café would justify the expected civilian casualties.

In another July 11 attack, an Israeli missile struck a vehicle in the Bureij refugee camp, killing the two municipal workers inside. The men were driving home in a marked municipal vehicle after clearing rubble from a road damaged in an airstrike. Their relatives said that neither man was affiliated with an armed group, and that the driver had followed the same daily routine in the same vehicle every day since July 7. The explosion blew the roof off the vehicle and partly disemboweled a 9-year-old girl and wounded her sister, 8, who were sitting in front of their home nearby. Human Rights Watch found no evidence of a military objective in the vehicle or in the area at the time.

An Israeli airstrike on July 10 on the family home of Mohammed al-Hajj, a tailor, in the densely crowded Khan Yunis refugee camp killed seven civilian family members, including two children, and wounded more than twenty civilians. An eighth fatality, al-Hajj’s 20-year-old son, was a low-ranking member of the Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of Hamas, residents told Human Rights Watch. The Israeli military said the attack was being investigated. Even if the son was the intended target, the nature of the attack appears indiscriminate and would in any case be disproportionate.

“The presence of a single, low-level fighter would hardly justify the appalling obliteration of an entire family,” Whitson said. “Israel would never accept an argument that any Israeli home of an Israel Defense Force member would be a valid military target.”

A fourth Israeli airstrike, on July 9, killed Amal Abed Ghafour, who was 7-months pregnant, and her 1-year-old daughter, and wounded her husband and 3-year-old son. The family lived across the street from an apartment building that was struck with multiple missiles, according to witnesses. Residents of nearby homes said Israeli forces fired a small non-explosive “warning” missile at the apartment building minutes before the main missile strikes. However, the family did not know of the warning or have time to flee. Israeli officials have not said why they targeted the apartment building.

................

 

[Arabian Legend]

@BLACKEAGLE I would like to talk to you outside the forum If that is ok with you.

 

[rmi5]

He won't be banned...never.

Also, i have never been banned too.

Bro, your account was almost deleted once if you remember. We were calling you General Sinan and King Sinan in our protests for having a mod.

 

[-SINAN-]

Bro, your account was almost deleted once if you remember. We were calling you General Sinan and King Sinan in our protests for having a mod.

Yeah,

But didn't banned only deactivated