"Arab" League: We have no power to stop Israel

[Battle of Kursk]

I am joining in the middle so please forgive me if I missed a few things.

No the treaty didn't envision any of the massacres (if they did occur)

Whitewashing the Arabs, a common phenomena on the world wide web. If one knows anything about that time frame in Israel he sure does know about the massacres. Not even the Palestinians question it, well at least in the past, it might change as their attempts to re-write and whitewash their history grow bolder.

In this video you have a Palestinian who lived at the time in Hevron mentioning it.

Video

Suppose that this hate you mention would disappear and did not affect the relation any more. In that scenario Israel would still be americas closest ally in the region and most likely have an alignment of interests in the middle east.

We don't need to speculate we have history to prove otherwise. When Israel was founded it had no alliances, Israel was put under arms embargo by both the east and west.
Actually the hatred pre-dated the establishment of Israel, see above video.

 

[Solomon2]

Israels Benjamin Netanyahu have called for bringing down Saddams regime in americas congress. American policy in Iraq led to instability in the country in addition to the deaths of many civilians caused by sanctions and war.
I'm suggesting this affects arab attitudes to Israel negatively.

Many Western leaders called for Saddam's removal. The U.S. Congress is not a puppet parliament as exists in too many countries. And if you look at the figures Saddam killed at least 12,000 of his own citizens a year for twenty years, not including the million or so that died in his useless wars.

No, the problem is that Israel lives and breathes and is happy and prosperous and in doing so is a competitor for the hearts and minds of peoples living under tyranny, so tyrants encourage Israel-hatred.

 

[Etiene]

We don't need to speculate we have history to prove otherwise. When Israel was founded it had no alliances, Israel was put under arms embargo by both the east and west.
Actually the hatred pre-dated the establishment of Israel, see above video.

@Solomon2
I agree that there are historic components in arabs relation to the jews and vice versa of course. But that its a simplification to argue that they are the only factor through which we can use to describe the relation today.

Yes western leaders did but I wouldnt argue that this improved their position in the arab world. Would you? If not can we then agree that israeli foreign policy influences its relation with arabs. Its not any bizarre notion I am proposing
it makes very much sense. In this case what options does Israel have to influence it positively

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Well naturally I agree that the Israeli foreign policy influences the relation to some degree. The real question is how much? I believe that the mentioned support for the USA and the west (which is mostly declaration and not physical help in the wars) has negligible effect when looking at the large picture.

 

[Etiene]

Well naturally I agree that the Israeli foreign policy influences the relation to some degree. The real question is how much? I believe that the mentioned support for the USA and the west (which is mostly declaration and not physical help in the wars) has negligible effect when looking at the large picture.

Its a good question but hard for me to say as a non arab living in Europe. If we look at Egypt during the Mubarak era relations with Israel were tolerable at least, if you see it from an israeli perspective. Naturally the revolution worried Israel in terms of security , and america which considered Egypt an ally to quote officials since the new order might not be as sensitive to american interests. When the support to the protesters from Obama didnt come, or came to late the idea that america didnt want egyptians to have freedom had taken root in Egypt I think.

Suppose Israel would have expressed support for the protesters in an early stage. That could have given Mubarak the argument that the revolution is Israeli sponsored and reduced its impact, possibly resulting in colder ties between Israel and Egypt if he would have stayed, an american puppett nevertheless. But still he would have stayed which was in Israels interest to begin with.

In another scenario is that the revolution succeeded, in this case Israel would have been in a better position today as it had supported egyptians freedom. Egyptian calls to make Jerusalem an arab capital and fighting zion etc might have had less support in egyptian society and it would at least be a first step to better relations because of it.

In any case support for the revolution seems like it would have been a good option for Israel.

What do you think?

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Suppose Israel would have expressed support for the protesters in an early stage. That could have given Mubarak the argument that the revolution is Israeli sponsored and reduced its impact, possibly resulting in colder ties between Israel and Egypt if he would have stayed, an american puppett nevertheless. But still he would have stayed which was in Israels interest to begin with.

The issues are quite complex so I can speculate at best, it's hard to tell the outcome.
iirc at the time it was unclear where the revolution was heading and what were the odds of it actually working. I remember most annalists speculating it would not result in Mubarak's fall for quite a while after it started.
I would guess that if Israel would have proclaimed support to the rebels they would just proclaim that it's a Zionist scheme to undermine their support. It would probably drive them to act and speak much more against Israel to prove those allegations were not true.
Finally I now believe that the problems which caused the revolution were true and fundamental, so some kind of a regime change was unavoidable. I doubt any Israeli proclamation would have changed the course of events.
So in case the revolution would have failed Egypt's leadership would resent Israel and want some kind of revenge.
In case the revolution worked their leaders would have to act on the calls they likely voiced against Israel, so Israel looses again.

Not to mention Arab and Muslim wide calls for Israel to stay out of Arab internal business. I think that's a lesson well learned by Israel, try to stay out of internal conflicts as much as possible, because otherwise you would just turn everyone against you.
Did you know that in the Lebanese civil war Israel worked with the Shiite minority (which was much smaller at the time) against the Palestinians, now the Shiite Hezballah is our main enemy there.

Another example is how even thought the Israeli air strikes against the SAA and Hezballah helps the FSA they still condemn it, just because it is Israel.

And another example comes to mind to drive how it doesn't matter what Israel actually does since it can always be turned around against it. Israel has been treating some Syrian wounded civilians (who were hurt near the border) in it's own hospitals and paying for that with it's own money. To understand how tremendously generous that is you must remember that Israel is in open conflict with Syria which is arming and funding Hez and was sponsoring Hamas. Those are the people who tried to storm the Israeli border a few years back.
Yet I've seen posts on this forum that said it was all just an evil Zionist ruse to harvest their organs...

In any case Israeli reaction to events such as mentioned can only have short lived effect at best, since such events are scarce and Israel is constantly portrayed as evil everywhere else.

 

[Solomon2]

@Solomon2
I agree that there are historic components in arabs relation to the jews and vice versa of course. But that its a simplification to argue that they are the only factor through which we can use to describe the relation today.

It's primary and dominant. The other components are niggling bits by comparison.

Here's a translation from an article that appeared in elaph.com last month for perspective:

"It is difficult to deny the fact that the level of hatred is increasing among Arab societies. Moreover, we have an industry that has turned hatred into an art. I was amazed, and it could be that many intelligent people were shocked together with me, at the level of hatred, resentment and hostility which exists in the political, religious and cultural arenas and at all levels, so much so that moderation has become a fault, the voice of wisdom has become treason, excessive hatred has become a good thing and it has become desirable to trade in it."

"Indeed, we are a nation of blood," explaining, "This one is Sunni and that one is Shiite, this one is a Kurd and that one is an Arab, this one is Muslim and that one is Christian, this one is Druze and that one is Berber, this one is a Copt and that one is Nubian, this one has citizenship and that one does not, this one is a city dweller and that one is a Bedouin, this one is an infidel and that one is something else, this one is white and that one is black. … But the important thing is 'kill, kill, because you will only enter paradise by shedding blood'"

You might also want to read The Arab Mind by Tarek Heggy.

But right now I'm more interested in your mind, Etienne. You're reaching. You're trying to grasp something, some reason to keep blaming Israel and its Jews. Isn't that so?

 

[qamar1990]

I told you i am not arguing with you, Off course we are very backward. Arabs are only rich, not wise, they don't have human resources. You are decades ahead from many countries economically because you have good natural resources. You are also very advanced in terrorism and backwardness culturally. You have a backward culture, at least try to understand your limitations.

says a backward terrorist afghani

Ever since Judaism existed, Jews have been persecuted here and there throughout history.

thats not true. maybe you should look into history a bit.

 

[qamar1990]

Wow. So much love for the Islamic Ummah!

@Digital Soldier is a traitor to muslims,
he has a big mouth and this response @BLACKEAGLE gave him a good response.
we muslims love each other but we still have our deference, ofcourse we dont love @Digital Soldier cuz he a bastard.
and everybody hates bastards

Well, many people feel that once the oil runs out (or the world weans away from it), the situation will reverse in a matter of few years.

they got decades left to build diversify their economies, im pretty sure they understand that oil is going to run out at some point so chill!

Things will be back to their historical normal very soon. The current state is quite artificial.

and that is the british ruling india?
the actual historical norm has been that the middle east was the center of the world for a thousand years.

 

[Digital Soldier]

says a backward terrorist afghani

tell me if any afghan national was involved in any terrorist attack in the world, name him for me. backward and terrorist tumari zaat hea, the whole world knows that. in every terrorist attack in the world pakistani and arab terrorists were involved not one afghan were involved. Think deeply about it before accusing others. thumri words se pata chalta ke tum ho kia chiz tatoo.

 

[qamar1990]

tell me if any afghan national was involved in any terrorist attack in the world, name him for me. backward and terrorist tumari zaat hea, the whole world knows that. in every terrorist attack in the world pakistani and arab terrorists were involved not one afghan were involved. Think deeply about it before accusing others. thumri words se pata chalta ke tum ho kia chiz tatoo.

all the taliban are afghanis, they are all terrorists, the northern alliance is terrorist and now they are your army.
you guys are the low life scums of asia, the stupidest and poorest , least educated, an *** is smarter then an afghani.
all of you are addicted to opium.
you guys literally look like apes.

 

[uzair ramay]

actually arabs are very dumb in technology and also in fighting a war..i respect arabs but one thing i hate the most about arabs is they have money a lot of money despite giving a good education to the muslim umma they make tall buildings and spent their money for luxry...and they have enough money to give education to muslim ummma free of cost...they must transfer west technology to muslims...

 

[Natan]

actually arabs are very dumb in technology and also in fighting a war..i respect arabs but one thing i hate the most about arabs is they have money a lot of money despite giving a good education to the muslim umma they make tall buildings and spent their money for luxry...and they have enough money to give education to muslim ummma free of cost...they must transfer west technology to muslims...

Well-educated people usually tend to ask more questions, doubt religious institutions and other self-proclaimed authorities.

Uneducated brainwashed mob is much easy to manipulate.

 

[twilight]

97% in so many different countries ... big lol .
let's calculate the 3% to understand which country will be saved

Well , we have a series of predictions in Shia books ....

and almost most of them come to reality and others waiting for their turn to come to reality .... from mongol invasion to Roman upper hand against Muslims and Jew occupy Palestine ....

well , we have a prediction about a great war before the final war ... a war that in it more than 2/3 or 3/4 or 4/5 earth people will die .... and thanks to nukes it is not out of humanity reach !!!! but most of Muslims land ( ME ) will remain untouched !!

and we have a prediction about a long conflict and a tough war in Persian gulf between Persian ( ah-o-alkhorsan ) and Romans as well .... ( the result is clear , Persian will be victorious and regain the control of it ) ....

about Arabs .... well in Shia source we have no prediction about their deaths ( their genocide ) , but we have some prediction and hadith about them , most of them will give up the true Islam and in the end other Muslims will force them to come in line ( under Imam Zaman -savior- command ) ...

and shia sources did say severally that no one new about the time .... so maybe we will have these events in tomorrow or maybe in 1000 years later ....

 

[Arabian Legend]

^^ Typical Khomeini mentality