Arab descriptions of early medieval South Asia

[FaujHistorian]

Natives of India could never develop a civilization.
We can see the same in sub saharan africa.

India had everything from abundant fertile land to millions of acres of forest. Same with Africa.
Yet they could never achieved equality with the world without another empire controlling it.

Climate & region defines on who you will be.

Depends who you call "natives".

The answer is yes, If you mean "aborigine" people who came from Africa, some stayed in Indian subcontinent, some moved to Australia.

The answer is no, if by natives you mean "hinduism" or "Bhudism".


peace

 

[Dubious]

Right on dudet !

My community calls itself "mohajir" in Pakistan.

But when they immigrate to USA, they call themselves american.

Oh the irony.

Know the meaning of the word 1st...Muhajir means 1 who is moving...So, when are you guys moving OUT of Pakistan since you are still on the move?!

Ahemmmm ahemmmm!


But Hazrat Adam "evolved" from other species that were in turn created from a "clay" like substance.

Proof of this OTHER SPECIES please! The clay like substance is us humans incase you dont know, we Humans have the SAME composition as clay....and if you want to be called an ape's descendant be it! But you stand alone with your group...

Not that I want to get into a behs with an established biologist and scientist..

I hate to get beaten up "intellectually speaking".

Well, then please stick to your expertise...Or get me ESTABLISHED proof NOT theories!

 

[Pyre]

GENETIC DIVERSITY IN PAKISTANI POPULATIONS

It is understood n respected in every ethnic group in Pakisatan as it bindings us in one Nation.
We feel proud in this language n own it completely is reason we prefer to speak it.

This "study" is from 2000. That's virtually meaningless in 2013. Especially in subjects that are growing as rapidly as the genetic sciences.

 

[Enemy]

They know nothing about? I'm talking about DNA. Genetic evidence. Haplogroup R1 is indicative of Indo-European origins. This is not my opinion, go and look at any DNA analysis taken from subcontinental people. I'd ask you not to be so emotional, but clearly that is too much to ask of someone who emotionally immature. Hopefully you'll learn one day though.



Again, foul language, more emotional immaturity, why so upset? None of that was my opinion, it's taken from DNA analysis by people from your own country and also Pakistan. Clearly i've struck a vital nerve, in a very sensitive being. Go and ask your GP for some treatment in testosterone production. Hopefully it'll clear up your emotional sensitivities. It's called TRT.

Bro, please don't pay too much attention to them, they aren't of your standard.

 

[Pyre]

Family Tree DNA - India subcontinent DNA Project (incl. India, Pakistan,Bangladesh,Nepal,Bhutan) Indian DNA project including Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan, etc

Family Tree DNA - Afghan-Pakistani DNA ProjectAfghan-Pakistani DNA project.

This is raw Data, from Indians, Pakistanis and Afghans, after testing the Y-chromsomes (which shows direct male lineage).

This is not compiled by anyone, to suit agendas.

As you can see CLEARLY from both of these DNA projects, haplogroups R1a and R2 dominate all other haplogroups in number. Pashtun Khan's are also belonging to R1a1a.

R1a1 is the same haplogroup that Majority of Russian men belong to, 30% german men, 40% of polish men, 50% of ukrainian men. It indicates Indo-european ancestry (just like R2) from the People who spoke the ancestor of today's Hindi langauge.

The other haplogroups, C (indicates direct ancestry of mongols), H (native to south asia), L (native to south asia/central asia), J2 (found mostly in mediterraneans), Q (found in native americans and also mizrahi jews).

There is virtually no Arab ancestry in Pakistanis or Afghans or Indians. Again, Not my opinion, look at the raw data collected. ^^^^

Bro, please don't pay too much attention to them, they aren't of your standard.

I'll try not to

 

[sms]

@sms know your facts 1st they call THEMSELVES MUHAJIRS ...we called them Pakistanis but they still want the MUhajir title....

Why would they do that?

 

[Enemy]

This "study" is from 2000. That's virtually meaningless in 2013. Especially in subjects that are growing as rapidly as the genetic sciences.

Can you tell me whether a standard mtDNA in any way contribute to the genetic upgrdation of a substandard Y Chromosome?

 

[Dubious]

Why would they do that?

ask them @sms

 

[Pyre]

Can you tell me whether a standard mtDNA in any way contribute to the genetic upgrdation of a substandard Y Chromosome?

Well, Y-chromosomes naturally mutate over thousands of years/generations and they're discovering lately that this mutation occurs faster than most other genes, but the Y-dna is always traceable even after mutation.

They aren't a huge portion of the overall genome, and seemingly don't have a huge effect on autosomal DNA (appearance, physical traits, character traits etc). They are finding now though, that Y-dna is responsible for testosterone production/sperm count (which is why R1a and R2 are higher in population in subcontinent than natives (L, H) the exact same thing happened in Western europe (where haplogroup I was native), then R1b and R1a came and outcompeted and make up a majority of lineages today) and all traits relating to male hormones directly such as aggression, competitiveness, temperament, etc.

But the answer is no. Marrying a particular woman (mtDNA) doesn't have much of an affect if any, on the Y-dna. However the offspring would receive her autosomal traits, relating to physical appearance, even personality and such.

 

[bronxbull]

Agree with most of yr points generally.

But a little rebuttal.

For point 1.

U said Sanskrit is present in many languages; i agree

But that still does not justify that the mother language is still present n is spoken wordwide.

for point 2.

Then u said language of India being hindi as national language is modernized version of it n its synonymous with sanskrit.
Well i agree again but still this again does not justify that Sanskrit n her actual legacy is alive today??
That we can not dead language?
Even if u take Urdu then in same logic its also has connections with Sanskrit because of it being mixture of many local n foreign languages.

But still that does not justify Sanskrit is not dead.
What is can be said is that as the local languages r part of this region hence their derivation that too few words not completely can be from distorting form of basic sanskrit language.

But again this still npot justify the mother language is alive in its actual form to be called a language being spoken or non Dead one.

For Point 3.

Then u said that there is no need for me to justify why r we proud of our language Urdu then u said because of this i failed

Answer;

I had mentioned this in post because my good friend bronxbull (that is u) in his post#57 said that ''The language is super alive and is not like Urdu a mish mash mix of everything and nothing''

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...arly-medieval-south-asia-4.html#ixzz2VGChnuUA

I merely told u what we feel about it just like mentioned how u feel about it as a ''mish mash of everything and nothing''

If this justifies that because of my answer to this had failed me then yr welcome to believe it in yr own word.

For point 4.

Why r we not speaking in Punjabi but Urdu is because Punjabi is a Regional language not National language of our Country. Like i said it binds people of Pakistan which is a very diverse country with people from different ethnic backgrounds.

GENETIC DIVERSITY IN PAKISTANI POPULATIONS

It is understood n respected in every ethnic group in Pakisatan as it bindings us in one Nation.
We feel proud in this language n own it completely is reason we prefer to speak it.

Umair,I have no hate or wrong feelings towards urdu or for that matter any language spoken by anyone.

I said one doesn't need to speak a sophistictaed language to feel proud or even one spoken by majority people of the world,even an amazonian's tribes dialect is as proud for them as our languages for us.

Sanskrit is a religious language and not mere religious.of cultural significance and it has organically merged with most languages of India.

It is like arabic for the arabs,just that they call everything arabic even the aramaic and others mixed totally.

 

[bigzgvr4]

Umair,I have no hate or wrong feelings towards urdu or for that matter any language spoken by anyone.

I said one doesn't need to speak a sophistictaed language to feel proud or even one spoken by majority people of the world,even an amazonian's tribes dialect is as proud for them as our languages for us.

Sanskrit is a religious language and not mere religious.of cultural significance and it has organically merged with most languages of India.

It is like arabic for the arabs,just that they call everything arabic even the aramaic and others mixed totally.

IF you wannaknow real History Read the material written by the author whos name is in my signature

 

[Enemy]

Well, Y-chromosomes naturally mutate over thousands of years/generations and they're discovering lately that this mutation occurs faster than most other genes, but the Y-dna is always traceable even after mutation.

They aren't a huge portion of the overall genome, and seemingly don't have a huge effect on autosomal DNA (appearance, physical traits, character traits etc). They are finding now though, that Y-dna is responsible for testosterone production/sperm count and all traits relating to male hormones directly such as aggression, competitiveness, temperament, etc.

But the answer is no. Marrying a particular woman (mtDNA) doesn't have much of an affect if any, on the Y-dna. However the offspring would receive her autosomal traits, relating to physical appearance, even personality and such.

You know the genetic study of Indian population gave an interesting result. With reference to the study conducted by Bamshad et al, on Hindu caste population, which proved that the high caste males (Y Chromosome) display more Caucasoid features than the females (mtDNA) which mostly (not entirely) display the features of typical East Asian/Mongoloid traits, facial structure, to be specific, i can say this is true. The low caste male population on the other hand either show East Asian features or Negroid features. This is perhaps because when the Aryans came to India, they were consisted of invading nomadic males and no females, they killed the native East Asian males but had sex with their females which resulted in the birth of various castes. The females were not allowed to give birth to daughters but sons. So the Y Chromosome remained the same and gave rise to the concept of clan which is descendants of a particular Aryan man, like this or that. There was inbreeding within a family too as seen in all ancient societies.

So, when a mother gives birth to a baby girl the girl gets her mother's genetic qualities but when she gives birth to a baby boy the boy gets his father's qualities. Is this true?

 

[bronxbull]

Natives of India could never develop a civilization.
We can see the same in sub saharan africa.

India had everything from abundant fertile land to millions of acres of forest. Same with Africa.
Yet they could never achieved equality with the world without another empire controlling it.

Climate & region defines on who you will be.

I generally ignore you but i want to use a good point you mentioned by mistake and take it forward,

Mr.Bohra,it is because of India and subcontinent that you are eating healthy atta/bajra/jowar/makki,instead u ll be eating maida khuboos all the time.

These populations of India/Africa have already finished their phases of war etc and had become sedantary,the central asians who came to invade India did so because they were living in a dry desert with nothing other than livestock to feed on.
Thats why they were more desperate and hungry to win.

Climate and region defines you,is that why yemeni bohras eat sweet food,grow tummies and do business.

Dont throw empty statements dude,btw the days of the angry warrior riding his red hood are gone,u ll end up smoking opium and dying a mujahid if u tried those things today.

Indians suffered a lot and still around,they never converted,they never sold their soul and still around,same as the chinese,great respect for them.

yemenis like you come and go,just the odd mistake the eraser erases in a child's notes.

IF you wannaknow real History Read the material written by the author whos name is in my signature

We dont take even dayanand saraswati and his arya samaj seriously,we belong to a sect who are intellectually unpolluted by lesser philosophies,punjabi hindus can fight,thats about it.

 

[Enemy]

@Pyre,

this is what wanted to say...

note this in particular

 

[Pyre]

You know the genetic study of Indian population gave an interesting result. With reference to the study conducted by Bamshad et al, on Hindu caste population, which proved that the high caste males (Y Chromosome) display more Caucasoid features than the females (mtDNA) which mostly (not entirely) display the features of typical East Asian/Mongoloid traits, facial structure, to be specific, i can say this is true. The low caste male population on the other hand either show East Asian features or Negroid features. This is perhaps because when the Aryans came to India, they were consisted of invading nomadic males and no females, they killed the native East Asian males but had sex with their females which resulted in the birth of various castes. The females were not allowed to give birth to daughters but sons. So the Y Chromosome remained the same and gave rise to the concept of clan which is descendants of a particular Aryan man, like this or that. There was inbreeding within a family too as seen in all ancient societies.

So, when a mother gives birth to a baby girl the girl gets her mother's genetic qualities but when she gives birth to a baby boy the boy gets his father's qualities. Is this true?

Ahhh, interesting yes. I see what you mean now.

It looks as though that seems to be the case, if the female offspring are displaying more of the traits of the original female population (native) and the male offspring are displaying more of the traits of the original male population (indo-european). As to the genetic reason, i'm not sure as to why this would happen, but i'm sure they're trying to find reasons why. It maybe unique to this group specifically, but generally it's not the rule. The only rule i can think of is the correllation between mtDNA U and blondism in european women. So girls typically will inherit blondness from a mtDNA hg U mother, even if the father is dark haired. I suppose inbreeding is one hypothesis, but you're right, this happened in many ancient peoples.

@Pyre,

this is what wanted to say...


note this in particular

Wow interesting, i had no idea females could work their way up like that but males couldn't. So the caste system subjugated the native Y-chromosomes?