Arab and Muslim supporters of democracy and Israel

[Solomon2]

I think you misunderstood my brother @Desert Fox ! He & I just don't care whether the Zionist State Or Palestine exists or not - If it does...fine...if it doesn't...just as fine !

I don't think I misunderstood at all; DF was talking politics and in Pakistan Israel is a political issue. Raising your personal opinions is to pull up a red herring, yet it's undeniable that if you're indifferent to the openly genocidal goals of people who wish to destroy the Jewish state than you're not a particularly humane person.

 

[Armstrong]

I don't think I misunderstood at all; DF was talking politics and in Pakistan Israel is a political issue. Raising your personal opinions is to pull up a red herring, yet it's undeniable that if you're indifferent to the openly genocidal goals of people who wish to destroy the Jewish state than you're not a particularly humane person.

Its got nothing to do with humanity; we're not convinced that either of you are in the 'right' & actually 'honest' about what you've been up to but because we don't care about what becomes of it...we're not really that bothered to spend hours sifting fact from fiction !

 

[Desert Fox]

Then what do you do when your Pakistani political opponent charges you with being a secret Zionist, since you're trying to remain neutral while he's trying to justify lies and tyranny?

Well, for this very reason i don't delve into politics. And Pakistan as a country is riddled with extremism and hatred be it against Israel, Jews, Christians, Hindus, or even other Muslim sects. Mostly due to the fact that certain foreign countries, both Muslim and non-Muslim alike, actively fund and support such religious extremists groups/parties for their own nefarious agendas.

If you stay neutral people will think you're really a Zionist and if you agree with him you then you defeat your purpose because you've legitimized the very tyranny Chamma and Hashemi despise.

You see, as long as anti-Zionism is a political issue in your country, you have to be openly pro-Israel if you are going to be pro-democrat. And to do that, you're going to have to learn how to justify being pro-Israel in the face of those who wish to destroy the Jewish state.

I'm not pro-democrat when it comes to Muslim countries. And neither are you, since it is a widely known fact of Israeli stance against Hamas which was democratically brought into power by the Palestinian people.

But there is enough hatred and despisement within Pakistani society for these fanatics that ones doesn't necessarily have to be "pro-Israel" to counter them.

In my view as well as in the views of millions of other patriotic Pakistanis, these fanatics and their ideology is foreign to our lands. It might have existed in the past but it was very limited. And the only counter to this ideology is Nationalism.

As Armstrong said, we rather be neutral. If the Arabs get decimated by Israel or vise versa, it should not concern us in any way since we are neither Arabs or Israelis.

 

[Cheetah786]

I agree with LT.General Armstrong and Desert Fox

 

[Armstrong]

I agree with LT.General Armstrong and Desert Fox

Oiii mein Full General hoooon !

 

[Cheetah786]

Oiii mein Full General hoooon !

Sir jii i was trying to give a hint to Nawaz Sheriff to appoint you as the replacement of kayani.

 

[Armstrong]

Sir jii i was trying to give a hint to Nawaz Sheriff to appoint to as the replacement of kayani.

Oh...thank you !

 

[Developereo]

not to support Israel

The modern state of Israel is a colonial imposition on indigenous peoples.

Opposition to Israel is in the same vein as opposition to British colonial rule, or French colonial rule, or Dutch colonial rule.

It's just that, because the colonialists here happen to be Jewish, they hide behind the anti-Semitism card.

 

[Armstrong]

Oi @Hyperion - Sir Jee...kiya Israel pei sahiii kahaa ?

 

[Developereo]

So you justify your feelings and politics on the grounds that Israelis aren't human beings. Anybody, Jew or not, can be labeled an Israeli or pro-Israeli and demonized and deprived of their life or civil rights (since they have become "animals") the same way.

So whatever you are fighting for, it isn't about democratic freedoms. How much longer can you expect to keep the freedoms you say you've won if you continue this Israelis-aren't-human-so-kill-them thinking?

It's clear that his use of the word 'animals' was in the same context as used against terrorists.
Stop playing the victim card as usual.

 

[Hyperion]

@Solomon2, dude, you don't start something nice by saying: "of Pakistanis as moral and intellectual cowards.". What's up with you? "We" Pakistanis love to ***** about causes, scenarios, Muslims, Christians, Jews, our parents, our family, .... and the list goes on. This doesn't mean we are intellecutually defunct, not even by a long shot. We just don't take anyones word for somehting, we are a very curious race, and I like us like this.

Now a little bit about my observation of yourself, I have had many many Israeli / Israeli Jewish / American Jewish / German Jewish friends over my life-span. Have gotten into heated debates with them, went out with some, went on vacations, stayed at their places, them at mine etc etc etc etc etc.... In all of that time, I haven't seen ONE person as yourself. You my friend are a very hateful person, specially against Pakistanis. Btw, what's your infatuation with us "lower lifeforms" anyways? I just don't get it.

 

[Armstrong]

Now a little bit about my observation of yourself, I have had many many Israeli / Israeli Jewish / American Jewish / German Jewish friends over my life-span. Have gotten into heated debates with them, went out with some, went on vacations, stayed at their places, them at mine etc etc etc etc etc.... In all of that time, I haven't seen ONE person as yourself. You my friend are a very hateful person, specially against Pakistanis. Btw, what's your infatuation with us "lower lifeforms" anyways? I just don't get it.

Apniii baradariii ke loggg hain aaakhir !

 

[Solomon2]

Its got nothing to do with humanity; we're not convinced that either of you are in the 'right' & actually 'honest'.....we're not really that bothered to spend hours sifting fact from fiction -

More red herrings. Humane behavior is not about "Humanity" per se. Of course if you work at it you can convince yourself who is right and who is wrong. I know you don't want to spend time on it. But it isn't my society that crafts Friday sermons and then political platforms dedicated to anti-Zionism, is it? And enforcing such platforms involves the same distortions of truth and fact as destroys a society's ability to sustain democratic values - that's my conclusion as well as that of the people I quote here who have lived through it.

 

[Solomon2]

Well, for this very reason i don't delve into politics.

So you agree with my analysis but don't want to deal with it.

Pakistan as a country is riddled with extremism and hatred be it against Israel, Jews, Christians, Hindus, or even other Muslim sects.

Ah, but when you embrace Zionism that solves everything, doesn't it? Everybody is now tolerated. No more politicians squirming to avoid some terrorists while employing others, but politicians vowing and actively working to eliminate militancy as part of the human rights everyone deserves in Pakistan.

Mostly due to the fact that certain foreign countries, both Muslim and non-Muslim alike, actively fund and support such religious extremists groups/parties for their own nefarious agendas.

Pakistanis are for sale, yes. Pakistanis are also skilled at not delivering full value. So I don't accept this as an excuse.

I'm not pro-democrat when it comes to Muslim countries. And neither are you, since it is a widely known fact of Israeli stance against -.

Don't confuse ME with whatever prejudices you have, nor confuse elections with democracy: it isn't democracy if it's one-man-one-vote-but-only-once. Still, by your own admission we can class you in the "anti-democrat" column.

there is enough hatred and despisement within Pakistani society for these fanatics that ones doesn't necessarily have to be "pro-Israel" to counter them.

You've already agreed with me that you're no democrat; now you're arguing that it's possible to defeat the fanatics without democracy. What country has that kind of track record, Algeria? Do you realize how much war and death and corruption afterwards you're talking about?

In my view as well as in the views of millions of other patriotic Pakistanis, these fanatics and their ideology is foreign to our lands. It might have existed in the past but it was very limited. And the only counter to this ideology is Nationalism.

Pakistan has attempted the anti-Zionist yet pro-nationalist route for over seventy years. At what point will you say continued failure become an adequate demonstration?

The modern state of Israel is a colonial -

You're in the wrong thread; put it in the correct one and I'm willing to discuss there.

 

[Solomon2]

"We" Pakistanis love to ***** about causes, scenarios, Muslims, Christians, Jews, our parents, our family, .... and the list goes on. This doesn't mean we are intellecutually defunct, not even by a long shot.

I assure you that if I didn't believe in Pakistanis' intellectual abilities I wouldn't be here.

It's clear that his use of the word 'animals' was in the same context as used against terrorists.

That's not clear at all.

Stop playing the victim card as usual.

That's not happening, is it? The argument isn't that Arabs and Muslims need to be pro-Zionists out of concern for Zionists: the argument is that Arabs and Muslims need to be pro-Zionists out of concern for Arabs and Muslims to establish the kind of decent democratic society so many of them yearn for.