Anti-Pakistan propaganda in the US media

[Donatello]

Current prospective presidential line up, is what really scares me. All of them have the talent to drive the world and the US itself, into ditch.

I mean, Freaking war mongers, if aliens sneaked a peak at our world, they would be......Wars...Check, People dying...Check, Nukes...Check, move on.

 

[happycanuck]

Sir, I respectfully disagree with you on everything you just said there. It is the US that has undermined this relationship. The US claims that Pakistan's security is of utmost importance in the region, yet, every action taken by them undermines Pakistan's security. Whether that is violating Pakistan's national sovereignty, drone strikes, cross border terrorism from Afghanistan; all their actions in Afghanistan have destabilized Pakistan. The US says it wants to have a good relationship with Pakistan, yet, they make baseless accusations against the ISI of playing double games. The mistrust (trust deficit) that has a developed in the relationship has been a result of this/the US as well.

When Pakistan became a partner to fight terrorist activities on both sides of nations border that is Afghanistan and Pakistan that means your ISI and Army will honour the basic principal of partnership by not leaking the information on impending attack by USA forces. It is about time that you owe up the actions of your institutions first and foremost than point fingers at others. For the last sixty-four years your country has only engaged in acrimonious relationship with its neighbouring countries by sponsoring infiltration in to their territories rather than paying attention to its own development in a positive way. Apnay under zhank kay dekho pahlay phir dusro par ungli uthoy.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No realistic person would say his argument is valid. The Taliban were our enemy in 2001 and remain our enemy.

The Taliban were not US enemies in 2001, the US turned them into an enemy when it refused to engage in negotiations with them and explore the offer of a neutral trial.

Of course officials in the Obama administration are going to attempt to defend him. They aren't going to throw him under the bus over that particular gaffe.

As I said, if they wanted to just 'defend' Biden (not throw him under the bus) they could have left it at 'taken out of context', arguing further about 'political reconciliation etc. justified Biden's comments and endorsed them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

When Pakistan became a partner to fight terrorist activities on both sides of nations border that is Afghanistan and Pakistan that means your ISI and Army will honour the basic principal of partnership by not leaking the information on impending attack by USA forces.

When was the last time you can point to any credible information regarding the Pakistani military 'leaking information about a pending US attack'?

And, no, Pakistan has no obligation to 'not leak information' regarding any US military or intelligence operation inside Pakistani territory, since there is no agreement between the US and Pakistan on such operations by the US, and there is no international legal sanction for such operations by the US inside Pakistan.

It is about time that you owe up the actions of your institutions first and foremost than point fingers at others. For the last sixty-four years your country has only engaged in acrimonious relationship with its neighbouring countries by sponsoring infiltration in to their territories rather than paying attention to its own development in a positive way. Apnay under zhank kay dekho pahlay phir dusro par ungli uthoy.

It is in fact about time that the US owe up to its war-mongering and back-stabbing policies, in being trigger happy and launching a knee-jerk war in Afghanistan after 9/11, and then launching a war on the basis of lies in Iraq, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents.

It is time the US owes up to back-stabbing Pakistan by putting in place an Afghan regime comprised of genocidal maniacs, warlords and criminals from the Northern Alliance, keeping Pakistan in the dark over the OBL raid, despite extensive Pakistani cooperation against Al Qaeda and its leadership, and back-stabbing Pakistan by refusing to allow Pakistan operational control over drone strikes conducted in Pakistani territory.

It is time the US owes up to back-stabbing Pakistan by sheltering one of the most wanted Baluch terrorist leaders in Kabul for years, and then facilitating his 'exile' to Switzerland - if the 'sheltering OBL' made the Taliban the enemy and a terrorist sympathizer regime, then what does sheltering Bugti make the US?

 

[Guest01]

LoL, so much vitriol about the US press. Why not take just one look at the pakistani press to see the saner side. When pakistan's soverieginity was broken at abbutabad, was the pakistani press not crying hoarse at the direction of the normally superhero pakistani forces (they just had an off day that evening. Okay a few more but that's it. All other time they are heros and are nishan-e-haider in gemeral). So when NATO forces are being killed and US is not being provided the services that it is paying for by pakistani army then it is only natural that the press in US will expose pakistan. Exposure of Fai's lies and his funding and connections to ISI was not an accident. And nothing else is. So if pakistani plays both sides, the possibility of Pakistan being played on both sides also exist.

 

[happycanuck]

When was the last time you can point to any credible information regarding the Pakistani military 'leaking information about a pending US attack'?

And, no, Pakistan has no obligation to 'not leak information' regarding any US military or intelligence operation inside Pakistani territory, since there is no agreement between the US and Pakistan on such operations by the US, and there is no international legal sanction for such operations by the US inside Pakistan.

It is in fact about time that the US owe up to its war-mongering and back-stabbing policies, in being trigger happy and launching a knee-jerk war in Afghanistan after 9/11, and then launching a war on the basis of lies in Iraq, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents.

It is time the US owes up to back-stabbing Pakistan by putting in place an Afghan regime comprised of genocidal maniacs, warlords and criminals from the Northern Alliance, keeping Pakistan in the dark over the OBL raid, despite extensive Pakistani cooperation against Al Qaeda and its leadership, and back-stabbing Pakistan by refusing to allow Pakistan operational control over drone strikes conducted in Pakistani territory.

It is time the US owes up to back-stabbing Pakistan by sheltering one of the most wanted Baluch terrorist leaders in Kabul for years, and then facilitating his 'exile' to Switzerland - if the 'sheltering OBL' made the Taliban the enemy and a terrorist sympathizer regime, then what does sheltering Bugti make the US?

What would you consider to be credible information? If you can post on this forum than it should not be difficult for you to google. Wikileaks is another source. I do not know how to paste the links on to forum therefore would like you to do the leg work to locate credible sources.

On one hand you are questioning me to provide credible information regarding leaking information about pending US attack than you go on to say that PAkistan has no obligation to "not to leak information". Since you are contradicting your self, I do not see any reason to continue the discussion this matter. From a common sense point when two parties agree to carry out a plan both have their duties to perform by being honest with each other. Pakistan has not only failed its partners but its own citizens in providing the safe environment to live in. I hope you will not ask me to prove my allegations once again. Your news media is full of all the atrocities perpetrated by its own citizens on their fellow Pakistanis day in day out. Learn to accept the reality on the ground before accusing or questioning others.

Iraq war was the work of your grand daddy of terrorist sponsoring country known as SAUDI ARABIA. Saud and Kuwait Kingdoms paid USA $60 billion during the 1991 campaign and $40 Billion during the 2003 war on Iraq. You have to start looking into trips made by Arab leaders to Bush's Texas ranch prior to start of the war. They are not finished with their agenda. Syria work is in progress and Iran could be next and who knows the next country could be a terrorist training camp country.

This attitude of TIT for TAT is not going to yield any positive result for Pakistan because you have to live with your neighbours for ever.

The Afghanistan nationals who are on various other forum accuse Pakistanis of misdeeds. I have to take their word for what they say unless you can prove them wrong with a verifiable facts. As the saying goes "Where there is smoke there is a fire".

At the end of the day, I would like your Government to formulate a policy and bring peace for the sake of those young children who are going to be growing up in a violent atmosphere. I hope you and I can agree on this common goal in this world.

Best wishes and regards.

 

[Zarvan]

Biden is, IMO, a bumbling idiot who cannot talk his way out of a wet paper bag.

Sir Biden has realized the reality no super power can defeat the Taliban so the only way to have peace is talks and the propaganda which USA media starts against Pakistan or any other country is done when they are trying to build a case against any country for an attack so they make sure public supports their decision

 

[Awesome]

Then you weren't looking closely enough. After 9-11, when Musharaff pledged support, the public gratitude was enormous.

People who actually read the news understand, but especially after the OBL episode, they are confused as to how "real" the support/alliance really is. People are also very confused, myself among them, as to how Pakistan and the USA couldn't be anything other than strategic allies, at least in the sense that our goals are the same... aren't they?

We both tend to dislike (understatement of the century) people who plant bombs in markets and Mosques and Churches. We both dislike the Taliban, who are all essentially the same regardless of the label - Afghan Taliban, Pakistan Taliban, "Good" Taliban, etc. So it baffles us when we see strong public approval of "Heroic Taliban fighters kill more Americans." etc.

What is there to be confused, Pakistan is going through turmoil, screw ups happen all the time in Pakistan - lets not forget that you invaded a country which resulted in the deaths of 100,000 Iraqis and didn't do what you said you are going there to do... Either you were lying or you screwed up too... Same thing, Pakistan can't be viewed guilty of OBL when lets face it, things aren't going super rosy in Pakistan due to the war you have created in Afghanistan either.

So the existence of OBL proves nothing and to Pakistanis you suspicions seem what we call - aiwai - "for the heck of it". On the flipside our grievance for you conducting not one but two raids in Pakistan are very real and things that are prompting us to figure out how to kill Americans (in response to future attacks) for the first time in Pakistani history - ever. At the state level Pakistanis have never actively wanted to harm American interests - but Americans are crossing that line and unlike Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan you will find slim pickings for any Pakistanis playing ball and accepting American attacks on our soil and we will fight it. Yes we know you're more powerful, but that won't deter us and you will not find anyone accepting an American attack.

The Memogate scandal proves this... We have found ways to indict the immune President who only seems to collaborate with the Americans against our nation. However you cut it, you have caused us more harm than the other way round, but theres still time for you to change - we will accept it but YOU must change otherwise for the first time we will have to act against America. All these things are in your head, your suspicions, we haven't gone against America, yet. But we may.

 

[A1Kaid]

It's true that there is tremendous hatred for Pakistanis and this hatred is mostly visible on the internet. People from Western countries when on the internet post vicious hatred for Pakistanis, you can see this in the comment sections of forums, articles, etc. In the street they may conceal their hatred.

US, Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece, Poland, Finland, Sweden, and other nations tend to dislike the average Pakistani. We have become an infamous nationality. However, there are still segments of Western society that are less prejudice and ignorant and realize Pakistanis are quality, professional, wonderful people.

Pakistan must become a strong nation, and it is the obligation of Pakistanis no matter where they be to help Pakistan and contribute to its development, I for one sure will. As a strong nation we will not have to put up with this ridiculousness.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What would you consider to be credible information? If you can post on this forum than it should not be difficult for you to google. Wikileaks is another source. I do not know how to paste the links on to forum therefore would like you to do the leg work to locate credible sources.

Wikileaks offers nothing other than rumor and speculation by various officials regarding this alleged 'leaking of information' - as many Western officials admitted after the wikileaks disclosures.

Credible evidence would amount to signals intelligence or some other concrete and tangible evidence illustrating the 'leaking of information by the Pakistani Army'.

On one hand you are questioning me to provide credible information regarding leaking information about pending US attack than you go on to say that PAkistan has no obligation to "not to leak information". Since you are contradicting your self, I do not see any reason to continue the discussion this matter.

There is no contradiction in my post - I offered a 'what if' scenario - I argued that given the lack of any official agreement between the US and Pakistan on US operations inside Pakistan, and the lack of any legal sanction for any such US operations, Pakistan has no obligation to do or not do anything in support of the US, when it comes to US operations inside Pakistan.

From a common sense point when two parties agree to carry out a plan both have their duties to perform by being honest with each other.

Except that the US and Pakistan have no agreement, and the US has no legal sanction or cover, to conduct intelligence or military operations inside Pakistan. If the US chooses to still go ahead uniliaterally, then it is the US that is 'back stabbing Pakistan' - Pakistan is not at fault here.

Iraq war was the work of your grand daddy of terrorist sponsoring country known as SAUDI ARABIA. Saud and Kuwait Kingdoms paid USA $60 billion during the 1991 campaign and $40 Billion during the 2003 war on Iraq. You have to start looking into trips made by Arab leaders to Bush's Texas ranch prior to start of the war. They are not finished with their agenda. Syria work is in progress and Iran could be next and who knows the next country could be a terrorist training camp country.

The Iraq war hysteria was built up, and lies to make the case spouted by, the US administration, intelligence and media. Whether the Arabs paid the US money to do so does not change the fact that the US made the case for war on the basis of lies and then prosecuted the war. This has to be the most absurd attempt to excuse US war crimes and criminal behavior I have heard.

At best, even if we accept that the US was 'paid by the Arabs to go to war in Iraq', the US comes across as a *****/paid mass murderer.

This attitude of TIT for TAT is not going to yield any positive result for Pakistan because you have to live with your neighbours for ever.

The Afghanistan nationals who are on various other forum accuse Pakistanis of misdeeds. I have to take their word for what they say unless you can prove them wrong with a verifiable facts. As the saying goes "Where there is smoke there is a fire".

Your logic should then also apply to the accusations on Pakistani forums and in the Pakistani media about the 'misdeeds of the US and India' - after all, as you say, 'were there is smoke there is fire ..'

And again, "It is time the US owes up to back-stabbing Pakistan by sheltering one of the most wanted Baluch terrorist leaders in Kabul for years, and then facilitating his 'exile' to Switzerland - if the 'sheltering OBL' made the Taliban the enemy and a terrorist sympathizer regime, then what does sheltering Bugti make the US?"

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

I am happy that cable operators in Pakistan have closed BBC broadcast in Pakistan...

They were in front line to propagate against Pakistan..

 

[regular]

And again, "It is time the US owes up to back-stabbing Pakistan by sheltering one of the most wanted Baluch terrorist leaders in Kabul for years, and then facilitating his 'exile' to Switzerland - if the 'sheltering OBL' made the Taliban the enemy and a terrorist sympathizer regime, then what does sheltering Bugti make the US?"

Obviously as our enemy.....

 

[53fd]

No realistic person would say his argument is valid. The Taliban were our enemy in 2001 and remain our enemy. Of course officials in the Obama administration are going to attempt to defend him. They aren't going to throw him under the bus over that particular gaffe.

I am no friend of the Obama administration. I don't think we've had a decent Executive (Presidency) since Pappa Bush, and he was just average. Clinton would have gained my admiration except he was too much of a lying sleaze.

Sir, I respect your opinion, but I cannot do anything but strongly disagree with it. In my view, it's not a simple problem of the statement Biden made (or Hillary made before that) & the White House approving it, the problem is far more complex. It is these types of statements that show how deeply flawed the US policies are in the region.

I have studied the strategic geopolitics of the region deeply, & from my understanding, the US wants to inflict as much damage to the Taliban as possible before 2014, & then force them into a negotiation, from a position of strength. This strategy is clearly not working, because the Taliban still control most of Afghanistan, & other large swathes of the country. The areas that the NATO Forces are withdrawing from (like Helmand in the South, & Kunar/Nuristan in the North) are seeing increased violence, & Taliban regaining control. As a result of these failures, it is the US that is almost literally 'begging' the Taliban & their affiliates to come to the negotiating table, from a position of weakness. The Taliban are not interested in peace talks with the current Afghan government or the US/NATO in the Afghan end game. This is the crux of the problem, & Biden's statement only shows how badly this policy of 'talk & fight' has failed. Pakistan's strategy is, unlike the US's, much more clear & flexible. Pakistan has catered for both the scenarios in the Afghan endgame (whether the US 'succeeds' or 'fails').

 

[Guest01]

Sir, I respect your opinion, but I cannot do anything but strongly disagree with it. In my view, it's not a simple problem of the statement Biden made (or Hillary made before that) & the White House approving it, the problem is far more complex. It is these types of statements that show how deeply flawed the US policies are in the region.

I have studied the strategic geopolitics of the region deeply, & from my understanding, the US wants to inflict as much damage to the Taliban as possible before 2014, & then force them into a negotiation, from a position of strength. This strategy is clearly not working, because the Taliban still control most of Afghanistan, & other large swathes of the country. The areas that the NATO Forces are withdrawing from (like Helmand in the South, & Kunar/Nuristan in the North) are seeing increased violence, & Taliban regaining control. As a result of these failures, it is the US that is almost literally 'begging' the Taliban & their affiliates to come to the negotiating table, from a position of weakness. The Taliban are not interested in peace talks with the current Afghan government or the US/NATO in the Afghan end game. This is the crux of the problem, & Biden's statement only shows how badly this policy of 'talk & fight' has failed. Pakistan's strategy is, unlike the US's, much more clear & flexible. Pakistan has catered for both the scenarios in the Afghan endgame (whether the US 'succeeds' or 'fails').

Clearly you have not studied the- geopolitics of the region as you refer to - so deeply. Yes it is US strategy to bring Taliban to the table and talk from a position of strength but that is just the overall goal. For that to be achieved the tasks to be followed are that the support system of the Taliban which in their view - as US has been clearly stating in as many words - is actually the Pakistani Army and ISI. So in short to bring Taliban to its knees, the Pakistani Army and the ISI needs to be then brought to the realization that the strategy of gaining influence via these easily deniable non-state actors will not work and hence the ties need to be severed. Another objective of the US that needs to be fulfilled in order for it to have continued influence is to have a strong Afghanistan. This is again in contradiction with what the Pakistani Army and the ISI are seeking to achieve = a vassal and tamed state ruled via the "veritable arm".

By the end, taking US position, if Taliban has to be brought to the negotiation table and if US needs to achieve the position of strength on the table, then Pakistani Army and ISI's influence and strategy needs to be stymied. What is keeping the balance is the land route through Pakistan, but then every card just has its own relevance and extent of utility. So has the threat of closing the supply line. There may arrive a threshold where this threat may just outlive its relevance and the niceties are just done away with. That just might put paid to the plans that you mentioned that Pakistani Army has laid out / "catered" to.

 

[53fd]

Clearly you have not studied the- geopolitics of the region as you refer to - so deeply. Yes it is US strategy to bring Taliban to the table and talk from a position of strength but that is just the overall goal. For that to be achieved the tasks to be followed are that the support system of the Taliban which in their view - as US has been clearly stating in as many words - is actually the Pakistani Army and ISI. So in short to bring Taliban to its knees, the Pakistani Army and the ISI needs to be then brought to the realization that the strategy of gaining influence via these easily deniable non-state actors will not work and hence the ties need to be severed. Another objective of the US that needs to be fulfilled in order for it to have continued influence is to have a strong Afghanistan. This is again in contradiction with what the Pakistani Army and the ISI are seeking to achieve = a vassal and tamed state ruled via the "veritable arm".

Yes, it is unfortunate that the US administration slandering & makes baseless accusations against the Pakistan military/intelligence, perfectly reverberated by you. And yes, this lack of trust is the reason why the Taliban is going so strong in Afghanistan, which I was referring to Chogy. The fact that the vice president is ready to say the Taliban is not the US's enemy, the fact that peace deals are being negotiated with them, the fact that they are ready to pay the Taliban to stop fighting shows who is playing the double games. Anyways, that's a different topic, but these are the reasons why success is not being achieved in Afghanistan. I was talking about the end-game state in Afghanistan, & you were talking about the causes behind it (which I wasn't specifically talking about).