Anti-headscarf Adana school principal suspended

[W.11]

The headscarf can be considered a form of oppression. It is very different from other forms of religious symbol such as christian cross. The main danger of a headscarf culture is that it gradually creates a divide between "pious" headscarf wearers and "slutty" non-headscarf wearers. If such a culture gains prominence, this kind of pre-conditioning may become commonplace and will be a danger to the values and ideals of Turkey's founder. People will be judged by whether they wears headscarf or not rather than their personality.

This suspension of school principle is an unfortunate incident. I hope Turkey reintroduces headscarf ban law in public places to prevent this cultural divide from gaining prominence.

dude seriously looks like you are on a pot today

 

[Developereo]

The headscarf can be considered a form of oppression. It is very different from other forms of religious symbol such as christian cross. The main danger of a headscarf culture is that it gradually creates a divide between "pious" headscarf wearers and "slutty" non-headscarf wearers. If such a culture gains prominence, this kind of pre-conditioning may become commonplace and will be a danger to the values and ideals of Turkey's founder. People will be judged by whether they wears headscarf or not rather than their personality.

This suspension of school principle is an unfortunate incident. I hope Turkey reintroduces headscarf ban law in public places to prevent this cultural divide from gaining prominence.

Sigh.

I could post the video about Orthodox Jews harassing an eight year old girl over her dress, but it would quickly go off-topic...

Point being: it's never about the dress itself but the behavior of the self-appointed 'guardians' of virtue. The solution is to educate people to respect individual choices, not to limit the choices themselves.

 

[vsdoc]

Sigh.

I could post the video about Orthodox Jews harassing an eight year old girl over her dress, but it would quickly go off-topic...

Point being: it's never about the dress itself but the behavior of the self-appointed 'guardians' of virtue. The solution is to educate people to respect individual choices, not to limit the choices themselves.

I've had many debates with Asim over this Developer.

The point is, a little girl cannot make her own choices.

There is cultural and peer pressure on her - both overt and covert.

There is a subliminal insinuation that not wearing the head scarve makes her a "bad" girl.

Its all around her. Her mother, her aunties, her grandmom, her sisters, her friends.

This is not even to mention the menfolk who still do not enter the picture.

Do you seriously expect a little girl to speak up and buck this trend?

When millions of full grown Muslim women the world over have not been able to?

And how do you prosecute?

Do you expect the litle girl/grown women to tell the police she is being forced - with her family members looking on?

Where does she go back to after that? Who does she go back to?

Especially when Muslim soceity has ingrained into her impressionable head that not wearing the head scarf is being a bad girl, being a bad Muslim, being less of a Muslim, and being untrue to the faith, to the prophet and to God?

Come on man. Surely you guys who are educated and progressive and liberal can see what your women are up against?

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Where should i start?

i wish my country be more nationalist, less secular, less islamist.

This Decades long conflict made people choke eachother throats. Unfortunately this people Will never find his character. Either american or Arab, thats their selection, who am i to judge???

 

[Developereo]

The point is, a little girl cannot make her own choices.

Of course minors can't make their own choices; their parents make a lot of choices for them. This is not unique to Muslims, and it applies to all religions and cultures.

The compromise made by most societies is that parents will make these choices for children until they come of age, at which point they can take over.

The wearing of a head scarf is no different in this respect from any other cultural ritual -- it has been made into a scapegoat by people with ulterior motives. As I have noted elsewhere, all these people obsessed with 'oppression' of Muslim women actually don't give a damn about these women -- else they wouldn't stigmatize them publicly as they do.

 

[Targon]

Is it makes it fair ?

Firstly seperate the decisions of parents, giving a name or buying clothes will not change or force a litle kid's mind, although forcing religion rituals will change their mind permanently, its not about islam or religion, just because its same in some other religions and cultures its not makes it right.

 

[what]

The wearing of a head scarf is no different in this respect from any other cultural ritual -- it has been made into a scapegoat by people with ulterior motives. As I have noted elsewhere, all these people obsessed with 'oppression' of Muslim women actually don't give a damn about these women -- else they wouldn't stigmatize them publicly as they do.

So shall we do nothing because some people exploit the oppression of Muslim women or should we do something and simply not care about what other people from other regions say?
If it was up to me I would ban any kind of religion in public buildings/school up to a certain age, whether its the cross, headscarf or a rastafari smoking weed.

 

[King Solomon]

The solution is to educate people to respect individual choices, not to limit the choices themselves.

Such a solution is not viable if the 'individual choice' involves something dangerous for the society.

Islamic culture (not Islam itself) terms a woman as "pious" and "true muslim" who wears headscarf. Those who don't are termed as not a good muslim woman. Thus, judgment is being done based on appearance rather than personality.

When such judgment becomes a norm, women will feel pressurized to wear the headscarf to avoid being discriminated against.

This is a very big danger for the moral fabric of a society.

It is to be noted that although Christian nuns have similar headcovers, Christianity does not differentiate or judge between personalities based on what they wear and what they don't. Thus, the Christian headcover for nuns is not a threat to the moral fabric of a society, unlike the Islamic headscarf.

Not to mention the ridiculous, artificial appearance the headscarf gives when worn by an ordinary woman. It reduces the woman's beauty to great extent, as if the woman's beauty is God's mistake.

 

[Uchiha]

Looks like the secular kelamists days are numbered.



these secular rats also lurk in Pakistan.. in fact, most of the mods here share the ideology of kemalists

yeah, these secular rats are doing suicide bombing, honor killing, female circumsision, acid attacks stoning and stuff right?

 

[RazPaK]

Basically the kemalists are trying to shove Atheism down everyday Turks throats.


In Pakistan we call them liberal facists.


I know many Turkish people here, and for some of them this Euro-Complex is too much.


My first Turkish friend kept trying to tell me for two weeks that he is Italian, when he was clearly speaking Turkish with his brother.

 

[Uchiha]

Basically the kemalists are trying to shove Atheism down everyday Turks throats.


In Pakistan we call them liberal facists.


I know many Turkish people here, and for some of them this Euro-Complex is too much.


My first Turkish friend kept trying to tell me for two weeks that he is Italian, when he was clearly speaking Turkish with his brother.

Please learn english... please

 

[RazPaK]

Please learn english... please

What does it matter?


Monkeys do not understand English.

 

[Developereo]

Is it makes it fair ?

Firstly seperate the decisions of parents, giving a name or buying clothes will not change or force a litle kid's mind, although forcing religion rituals will change their mind permanently, its not about islam or religion, just because its same in some other religions and cultures its not makes it right.

Again, show consistency. If you want to ban head scarf, you must also ban baptism, barmitzvah, yarmulkas, crosses, Sunday school, all attendance by minors in all churches, temples and mosques.

You will soon get a reality check when you do this. This facade of secularism will be globally denounced as fascism. It is only encouraged by the global community as long as you target only Muslims.

Once again, parents are given the right to 'change' the mind of their child -- it is called imparting tradition and it is universally accepted. When a child reaches adulthood, they can choose to decide otherwise.

So shall we do nothing because some people exploit the oppression of Muslim women or should we do something and simply not care about what other people from other regions say?

You are presupposing that there is 'oppression' going on. It is a circular argument to justify a fascist agenda to criminalize Islamic rituals.

What about the rights of women who choose to wear the head scarf willingly?

If it was up to me I would ban any kind of religion in public buildings/school up to a certain age, whether its the cross, headscarf or a rastafari smoking weed.

Then your actions would be denounced around the world as fascist denial of basic human rights. As I wrote above, such actions are only fashionable as long as they target Muslims. You mess with Christian or Jewish traditions and you will get a very quick reality check from the 'secular' Europeans and Americans.

Such a solution is not viable if the 'individual choice' involves something dangerous for the society.

How does a head scarf pose a danger to society?

Islamic culture (not Islam itself) terms a woman as "pious" and "true muslim" who wears headscarf. Those who don't are termed as not a good muslim woman. Thus, judgment is being done based on appearance rather than personality.

When such judgment becomes a norm, women will feel pressurized to wear the headscarf to avoid being discriminated against.

This is a very big danger for the moral fabric of a society.

It is to be noted that although Christian nuns have similar headcovers, Christianity does not differentiate or judge between personalities based on what they wear and what they don't. Thus, the Christian headcover for nuns is not a threat to the moral fabric of a society, unlike the Islamic headscarf.

All cultures have extremists who want to impose their requirements on everyone else. I already gave the example of Orthodox Jews who harassed school girls, including an eight year old girl, because her dress did not meet their approval.

Not to mention the ridiculous, artificial appearance the headscarf gives when worn by an ordinary woman. It reduces the woman's beauty to great extent, as if the women than's beauty is God's mistake.

Lots of things look ridiculous to people who are not used to them. The yarmulka or the Hassidic head-dresses look strange at first, too. To most people in the region, including Eastern Europe, a head scarf looks perfectly normal. Even the Queen of England wears a headscarf.

Nun's habits, Amish dresses or any display of modesty can be claimed to 'reduce' a woman's beauty. Not wearing a skirt and hiding one's legs can be claimed to 'reduce' a woman's beauty.

 

[Deno]

What does it matter?


Monkeys do not understand English.

How can you speak the language you cannot understand at first place? Hmm... And you people deny evolution when clearly you are evolving into intelligent beings like us humans...

 

[RazPaK]

How can you speak the language you cannot understand at first place? Hmm... And you people deny evolution when clearly you are evolving into intelligent beings like us humans...

Deno Tiger, If I cannot speak English how can you can understand what I wrote?





Also, can you prove the theory of evolution?