Anti-headscarf Adana school principal suspended

[Armstrong]

Thats the question here, I mean you seem to agree that the girls should be "protected" up to a certain age to build her own character, to grow strong.
What age? Thats a tough question there mate. Really don't know the answer. I think the right approach to something like that should be somekind of commission with representatives from each demographic group, religious leaders, etc and let them discuss it and come to a conclusion.

The inherent problem with this approach is that we find ourselves in a conundrum because of the following :

- Whether a 'head-scarf' constitute as a 'offense against the freedom to build one's character' or not ?

- How much freedom should one have to build one's character ? If the answer is complete then why would all of us unanimously condemn allowing a 'mentally disturbed' kid to build his/her character further and end up into a 'destructive adult' ? If the answer is that 'it depends' then who gets to decide what that 'it depends' is going to be and does one even have the right to do so ?

- If we can decide upon the 'freedom to form one's own character', 'the limitations of that freedom' and 'the exceptions to those limitations' then where does that leave the parents ? Do we have the right to do so more so than perfectly decent parents or not ? Which in turn comes with another question 'what if our definition of decency might not be the same as someone else's' and so are we 'right' and the other 'wrong' or the other way around and that are way actually capable of making such a decision without being partial and biased in our favor ?

- If a commission is to be formed then who gets to be on that commission ? The representatives of parents and by extension those of the parents under question and other parents who tow a similar stance. If that is true that what suggests that their representatives are more qualified then the parents themselves or have more rights then the parents themselves to make decisions of sch a nature on their behalf ?

- And it goes without saying that can one define something like 'character' to begin with ?

- Additionally if 'character development' is something that should be left to experiences then isn't learning from others and by others also 'an experience' in that progression. If that is true then is it more 'right' or 'sensible' to allow the experiences gained at the hands of a 'formidable world' and possibly, 'less than friendly' people, be had in preference to the guidance provided by someone who loves you ?

 

[TurAr]

An apple is called an apple and people with scumlike characteristics are called scum, just like Bush. I call people who deny women entering universities scum. I call people who deny men gaining ranks in military because his mother wears a headscarf scum. I call people who deny women with veil working or even entering official areas scum. It is not about generalizing, it is about the state of the country since these scum became politicians. So-called professors who is at lookout for women with veil are scum.

And what is the common characteristics of these people? You guessed right, they are all Kemalists, without a single exception. Is that generalization or the truth?

And yes until very recent Turkey was worse than most African countries, during the times of Kemalist scum politicans.

All of the suicide bombers in the world are Muslims. Then Islam is evil, is this generalization or the truth?

 

[what]

An apple is called an apple and people with scumlike characteristics are called scum, just like Bush. I call people who deny women entering universities scum. I call people who deny men gaining ranks in military because his mother wears a headscarf scum. I call people who deny women with veil working or even entering official areas scum. It is not about generalizing, it is about the state of the country since these scum became politicians. So-called professors who is at lookout for women with veil are scum.

And what is the common characteristics of these people? You guessed right, they are all Kemalists, without a single exception. Is that generalization or the truth?

And yes until very recent Turkey was worse than most African countries, during the times of Kemalist scum politicans.

I'll join the stereotype bandwagon and throw in some all Muslims are terrorists and beat their women, without a single exception. Is that generalization or the truth? /s

You dont even see how you're filled with hate. Also answer my question: in WHAT are we worse than most African countries? I like the fact that you decided to add the word almost this time instead of just worse than African countries, answers please.

 

[what]

The inherent problem with this approach is that we find ourselves in a conundrum because of the following :

- Whether a 'head-scarf' constitute as a 'offense against the freedom to build one's character' or not ?

- How much freedom should one have to build one's character ? If the answer is complete then why would all of us unanimously condemn allowing a 'mentally disturbed' kid to build his/her character further and end up into a 'destructive adult' ? If the answer is that 'it depends' then who gets to decide what that 'it depends' is going to be and does one even have the right to do so ?

- If we can decide upon the 'freedom to form one's own character', 'the limitations of that freedom' and 'the exceptions to those limitations' then where does that leave the parents ? Do we have the right to do so more so than perfectly decent parents or not ? Which in turn comes with another question 'what if our definition of decency might not be the same as someone else's' and so are we 'right' and the other 'wrong' or the other way around and that are way actually capable of making such a decision without being partial and biased in our favor ?

- If a commission is to be formed then who gets to be on that commission ? The representatives of parents and by extension those of the parents under question and other parents who tow a similar stance. If that is true that what suggests that their representatives are more qualified then the parents themselves or have more rights then the parents themselves to make decisions of sch a nature on their behalf ?

- And it goes without saying that can one define something like 'character' to begin with ?

- Additionally if 'character development' is something that should be left to experiences then isn't learning from others and by others also 'an experience' in that progression. If that is true then is it more 'right' or 'sensible' to allow the experiences gained at the hands of a 'formidable world' and possibly, 'less than friendly' people, be had in preference to the guidance provided by someone who loves you ?

You're getting pretty philosophical, its 2AM here and I'm pretty sleepy and have not enough brain-activity left to answer your questions. I'm not even sure if my English would be sufficient to answer your questions. I tried to answer your questions a few times now but decided to delete it again and again, maybe tommorow

 

[Zulkarneyn]

All of the suicide bombers in the world are Muslims. Then Islam is evil, is this generalization or the truth?

Suicide bombers where? In Iraq, well Americans invade their country, rape their women and kill their children and elders. Do you expect that they will open their arms to this? No. They will do whatever they have in power to fight the Americans. When you stand against a force whose strength is multiple times larger than yours you take extreme measures and suicide yourself and take some of the enemies with you. I don't approve these suicide bombers one bit, but doing some contextual analysis is necessary when comparing Muslims with some nationals in Iraq and Afhganistan.

Again, instead of derailing my point, as i mentioned in another thread: Do you guys think religious discrimination has been non-problematic in Turkey?

 

[what]

Suicide bombers where? In Iraq, well Americans invade their country, rape their women and kill their children and elders. Do you expect that they will open their arms to this? No. They will do whatever they have in power to fight the Americans. When you stand against a force whose strength is multiple times larger than yours you take extreme measures and suicide yourself and take some of the enemies with you. I don't approve these suicide bombers one bit, but doing some contextual analysis is necessary when comparing Muslims with some nationals in Iraq and Afhganistan.

Again, instead of derailing my point, as i mentioned in another thread: Do you guys think religious discrimination has been non-problematic in Turkey?

Have dare you even talk about discriminatin when you label all Kemalists as scum? Hypocrite.

 

[TurAr]

Suicide bombers where? In Iraq, well Americans invade their country, rape their women and kill their children and elders. Do you expect that they will open their arms to this? No. They will do whatever they have in power to fight the Americans. When you stand against a force whose strength is multiple times larger than yours you take extreme measures and suicide yourself and take some of the enemies with you. I don't approve these suicide bombers one bit, but doing some contextual analysis is necessary when comparing Muslims with some nationals in Iraq and Afhganistan.

Again, instead of derailing my point, as i mentioned in another thread: Do you guys think religious discrimination has been non-problematic in Turkey?

It is not just happening in Iraq and it is not targetting only Foreign soldiers but muslims killing muslims.

MIDEAST - Anti-Shiite bomb attack in Baghdad kills 22
Shiite American soldiers eh?

It was problemetic and it is still problematic, but just because it is not targetting you, you are totally cool with it. Erdogan said 'tinerci' to Atheists, remember?

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Have dare you even talk about discriminatin when you label all Kemalists as scum? Hypocrite.

Again as i said previously, those "lovely" kemalists are the ones who discriminated against Muslims. If it is the opposite today (which is not) then they deserve it every single drop. It was the kemalists "ataturkcu dusuner dernegi" that did everything in their power to coerce the military to take action against the AKP who was chosen by the people. Buddy learn some history and politics before coming and trying to argue with me, there isnt yet a single post by kemalists that has any valuable information that is based on reality. You are proving daily your incapability with your nonsense.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Have dare you even talk about discriminatin when you label all Kemalists as scum? Hypocrite.

But the Kemalist elite (whether in politics, military or economy) have always been scum. How can you deny this?

 

[DRaisinHerald]

I'm against each form of discrimination, whether its a headscarf or something else. But I'm against headscarfs on girl who are not old enough to decide whether they want it or not. I guess in this case she was old enough since she was graduating.

I've seen girls wearing headscarfs who were 9-10 and I think that headscarf bans should be in effect in public buildings (schools)until they're old enough to decide if they're cool with it or not.

Parents have a right to teach their children their beliefs. If they themselves are practising, for example, by being modest, then they have the right to teach that modestly to their children.

A counter argument to that bold part could be that children should all be forced to wear the headscarf until they're old enough to decide whether they want to wear it or not. I mean, how do you know they don't want to wear it or not?
Or that there should be a ban on all children wearing shirts for example. Why do you want to 'force' shirts on kids; how do you know whether they want to wear them or not?

Everyone has their own version of morals; respect that and don't be such an extremist in your views

 

[what]

The difference is that he's saying that every Kemalist is scum and you're saying that the leaders were scum. There is a big difference here althought you're generalizing too. Everyone who did something bad in the past is automatically a Kemalist. The question is did the person make bad decisions because he's a Kemalist or because he's scum.

Did XY decide to blow himself up and kill other innocent people because he's Muslim or because he's scum? (I'm just using the same logic as Zulk)

 

[TurAr]

Parents have a right to teach their children their beliefs. If they themselves are practising, for example, by being modest, then they have the right to teach that modestly to their children.

A counter argument to that bold part could be that children should all be forced to wear the headscarf until they're old enough to decide whether they want to wear it or not. I mean, how do you know they don't want to wear it or not?
Or that there should be a ban on all children wearing shirts for example. Why do you want to 'force' shirts on kids; how do you know whether they want to wear them or not?

Everyone has their own version of morals; respect that and don't be such an extremist in your views

Since 10 year old kid can not describe as a woman there is no moral or logical reason for her to wear headscarves. You see, in that age, kids are thinking differently and even being a fat is enough for them to make fun with you.
As you said we can not know if they would want to wear it or not and we are saying that she should decide it when the time comes.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

we are saying that she should decide it when the time comes.

How about just leaving it to the parents? They gave birth to their children, they get to decide what morals they grow up with. It should only become anyone else's concern if there's any reports of abuse or if those 'morals' pose a danger to the general public and such.
Policing around with people's lives is a recipe for disaster.

 

[TurAr]

How about just leaving it to the parents? They gave birth to their children, they get to decide what morals they grow up with. It should only become anyone else's concern if there's any reports of abuse or if those 'morals' pose a danger to the general public and such.
Policing around with people's lives is a recipe for disaster.

In my opinion, it shouldn't be left to parents because forcing 10 year old kid to wear headscarf has nothing to do with morals.

 

[rubyjackass]

What the f*ck is wrong with you man? Preventing womans to wear in accordance with their beliefs is a violation for one of the Ataturk's main principle, secularism. If this new is true, that school principle got what she deserved.

However i'm thinking same with what. Up to some age, this ban should be in effect in order to prevent possible discrimination among children.

I agree. Till the children become majors, they should wear only the uniform of the school. The reason why schools have 'uniform' is to show that all are same.