Anti-Army/ISI/MI slogans raised in Megacity Lahore | Change of Command calls in a month| In 75 yrs Never seen such Questions on Army/ISI internal role

[COOKie LOOkie....]

Its obvious There’s panic in Bajwas camp as they are facing the music.
People of Pakistan finally realized how truthful the generals have been since the past.

This is just the tip of the iceberg just wait till people start asking questions about the stuff they have done in the past. These are baby steps towards total accountability.

 

[VCheng]

Its obvious There’s panic in Bajwas camp as they are facing the music.

And just what is the evidence that shows that there is panic in the Army, if you please? The press conference was clearly a warning to IK, and he has chosen not to heed it. Now we will have to wait and see how this march ends, and with what results.

 

[COOKie LOOkie....]

And just what is the evidence that shows that there is panic in the Army, if you please? The press conference was clearly a warning to IK, and he has chosen not to heed it. Now we will have to wait and see how this march ends, and with what results.

I never said there’s panic in the army, dont misquote me.
i said there obvious panic in camp bajwa.

Dont you think it’s evident enough to see Mr. Bajwa is sending his top guns to handle it.
How many more warnings is Mr bajwa going to send, From direct threats to abducting Imran’s chief and a senior active senator, stripping them naked and torturing them, what else can bajwa do. All this didn’t move imran and you think this press conference will.

Mrs Clinton was right when she used the words “State within a state” for some specific people.
Thats not countries operate.
What Imran is doing is damn right within his constitutional right.

 

[VCheng]

I never said there’s panic in the army, dont misquote me.
i said there obvious panic in camp bajwa.

Dont you think it’s evident enough to see Mr. Bajwa is sending his top guns to handle it.
How many more warnings is Mr bajwa going to send, From direct threats to abducting Imran’s chief and a senior active senator, stripping them naked and torturing them, what else can bajwa do. All this didn’t move imran and you think this press conference will.

Mrs Clinton was right when she used the words “State within a state” for some specific people.
Thats not countries operate.
What Imran is doing is damn right within his constitutional right.

So let's see, Bajwa's camp, you said, okay, but as far as I know, the army still obeys its command, so guess what? The army is part of Bajwa's camp. And as long as the "top guns" take care of the problem, it is a matter of simply matching resources to the requirements of the job, and not of anything else.

I do agree with you that what IK is doing is his constitutional right, as long as his demands remain constitution.

(What Mrs. Clinton said remains true as ever, I also agree.)

 

[COOKie LOOkie....]

So let's see, Bajwa's camp, you said, okay, but as far as I know, the army still obeys its command, so guess what? The army is part of Bajwa's camp. And as long as the "top guns" take care of the problem, it is a matter of simply matching resources to the requirements of the job, and not of anything else.

I do agree with you that what IK is doing is his constitutional right, as long as his demands remain constitution.

(What Mrs. Clinton said remains true as ever, I also agree.)

Yes army is under Bajwa no doubt and yes i acknowledge there’s a proper chain of command to which all the officers fall under.

The reason i use the word “Bajwa camp” and not army it’s because i do not wish to malign the whole institution for just an individual’s doings and interests.
What bajwa did is not constitutional. he abused his power and his two pawns were part of it. And instead of coming clean and excepting what he did he calls a press conference and blaming others while hiding under accusating others.

 

[VCheng]

Yes army is under Bajwa no doubt and yes i acknowledge there’s a proper chain of command to which all the officers fall under.

The reason i use the word “Bajwa camp” and not army it’s because i do not wish to malign the whole institution for just an individual’s doings and interests.
What bajwa did is not constitutional. he abused his power and his two pawns were part of it. And instead of coming clean and excepting what he did he calls a press conference and blaming others while hiding under accusating others.

Yes, I agree that the "Bajwa Camp" is acting supra-constitutionally, but IK is just another pawn within the same system like the others. He is no different than them in trying to make deals with those he calls traitors in public just to remain in power by offering secret deals.

 

[PakFactor]

Yes, I agree that the "Bajwa Camp" is acting supra-constitutionally, but IK is just another pawn within the same system like the others. He is no different than them in trying to make deals with those he calls traitors in public just to remain in power by offering secret deals.

Whether it is IK or someone else, the military's center of gravity is being challenged by its "pawn," as you call it, and they have basically failed to control him, and the establishment is acting irrationally. My problem isn't the deal-making but at least making it with competent parties who could better manage the country. Whatever the issues with IK, the last few months have shown, PPP and N-League never really had any technical know-how to manage the economy. But, when faced with a tide, the establishment runs towards it like retards. Everyone knows you ride the tide and do not go against it.

 

[COOKie LOOkie....]

Yes, I agree that the "Bajwa Camp" is acting supra-constitutionally, but IK is just another pawn within the same system like the others. He is no different than them in trying to make deals with those he calls traitors in public just to remain in power by offering secret deals.

IK is the complete opposite of a pawn. he’s defying this made system.
Making Deals? idk if wether you are referencing to extension of COAS or something else.
I know for a fact negotiating was done for the sake of Pakistan to save it from the situation it is right now. Economic instability/political insecurity
I rather not compare IK with other until anything is confirmed but at least IK didnt ask foreign hands for help as the others did. Wikileaks, Dawnleaks can confirm that.
Why were they approaching the US Gov and crying to save me from Army. NS and zardari both did it amd this time again they approached an Undersecretary of United states for help.
What is that? where’s the loyalty? Did they not break their oaths taken for office?

Whether it is IK or someone else, the military's center of gravity is being challenged by its "pawn," as you call it, and they have basically failed to control him, and the establishment is acting irrationally. My problem isn't the deal-making but at least making it with competent parties who could better manage the country. Whatever the issues with IK, the last few months have shown, PPP and N-League never really had any technical know-how to manage the economy. But, when faced with a tide, the establishment runs towards it like retards. Everyone knows you ride the wave and do not go against it.

IK has rattled the chains and the sounds of those shackles can be heard everywhere and that sound just broke their walls of comfort.
Thats why there’s panic in a certain camp.

 

[SQ8]

So let's see, Bajwa's camp, you said, okay, but as far as I know, the army still obeys its command, so guess what? The army is part of Bajwa's camp. And as long as the "top guns" take care of the problem, it is a matter of simply matching resources to the requirements of the job, and not of anything else.

I do agree with you that what IK is doing is his constitutional right, as long as his demands remain constitution.

(What Mrs. Clinton said remains true as ever, I also agree.)

One benefit of the doubt can be given in that today’s age of social media and speed of light coordination for the movements supporting these pawns - the establishment is still applying older sops to what is a very different environment.

 

[VCheng]

One benefit of the doubt can be given in that today’s age of social media and speed of light coordination for the movements supporting these pawns - the establishment is still applying older sops to what is a very different environment.

That I can see happening, agreed.

Whether it is IK or someone else, the military's center of gravity is being challenged by its "pawn," as you call it, and they have basically failed to control him, and the establishment is acting irrationally. My problem isn't the deal-making but at least making it with competent parties who could better manage the country. Whatever the issues with IK, the last few months have shown, PPP and N-League never really had any technical know-how to manage the economy. But, when faced with a tide, the establishment runs towards it like retards. Everyone knows you ride the tide and do not go against it.

Let me be clear: PMLN, PPP and the others are absolutely 100% human excreta of the worst kind, and known failures, so I have no hopes for them, ever. IK at present is, at best, an unknown, and at worst, the same as his predecessors, and more and more evidence suggests that to be the depressing case. I see the system continuing under its supra-constitutional overlords for the foreseeable future, once the present chapter is written.

IK is the complete opposite of a pawn. he’s defying this made system.
Making Deals? idk if wether you are referencing to extension of COAS or something else.
I know for a fact negotiating was done for the sake of Pakistan to save it from the situation it is right now. Economic instability/political insecurity
I rather not compare IK with other until anything is confirmed but at least IK didnt ask foreign hands for help as the others did. Wikileaks, Dawnleaks can confirm that.
Why were they approaching the US Gov and crying to save me from Army. NS and zardari both did it amd this time again they approached an Undersecretary of United states for help.
What is that? where’s the loyalty? Did they not break their oaths taken for office?

I can see that you have a high opinion of IK, and I see no reason to try and change it. I will let the coming events prove the reality for you.

 

[Asian.Century]

 

[COOKie LOOkie....]

That I can see happening, agreed.



Let me be clear: PMLN, PPP and the others are absolutely 100% human excreta of the worst kind, and known failures, so I have no hopes for them, ever. IK at present is, at best, an unknown, and at worst, the same as his predecessors, and more and more evidence suggests that to be the depressing case. I see the system continuing under its supra-constitutional overlords for the foreseeable future, once the present chapter is written.



I can see that you have a high opinion of IK, and I see no reason to try and change it. I will let the coming events prove the reality for you.

No i am not here to advocate for IK , nor do i worship any political party as others do. There are things and certain policies IK made and i strongly oppose.
But what i stated is factually correct and thats what has happened.
I am merely pointing out the events of the past.

No i am not here to advocate for IK , nor do i worship any political party as others do. There are things and certain policies IK made and i strongly oppose.
But what i stated is factually correct and thats what has happened.
I am merely pointing out the events of the past.

For sure time is the best revealer and that all its up to. time is gonna have to run its course

 

[Trango Towers]

As much as you all hate the military leadership (me included), I still am of the opinion that there are alot of good men in the second tier who can steer the institution into clear waters.

Let’s hope Pakistan is not in a position that it has to concede it’s strategic position to it’s neighbor to the East.

But zero checks and balances in place.
These haramis need to be answerable

 

[VCheng]

But what i stated is factually correct and thats what has happened.

How do you know "for a fact negotiating was done for the sake of Pakistan to save it from the situation it is right now" and not just to remain in power? It seems more of a personal opinion without anything factual to prove it thus far.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

One benefit of the doubt can be given in that today’s age of social media and speed of light coordination for the movements supporting these pawns - the establishment is still applying older sops to what is a very different environment.

What are the chances that the PTI vs. PDM fight is, at heart, a proxy fight between two competing upper-echelon camps vying for Gen. Bajwa's seat (after he retires)?

Fundamentally, my implication here is that it doesn't matter if PTI or PDM wins because, ultimately, an establishment will prevail. It just so happens that the ones backing the PTI horse have managed to back the younger buck. So, they might be better equipped to maintain a grip in Pakistan in the future and, in the long-run, avoid these sorts of political breakdowns.