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Another wave of Anti-Pakistani campaign in Turkey brewing. This time, Ataturk and Nuclear Technology is being discussed.

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I don't know enough about the word origin of Urdu used in Pakistan and where it came from. And I haven't commented on that yet. What I tried to work with above with examples, in all Turkic language groups(From Yakutia to the Baltic Sea), the words Orda/Urda have been used to mean the gathering place and Hakan's city. Thinking like yours is only related to your effort to relate to Sumerian and excluding Turkic sources. Not accepting the Kaşgarlı Mahmut as a source, excluding the historical perspective completely, ignoring the usages in all these languages from Yakut to Mongolian and making an opinion will not make your opinion consistent.
I know about the Turkic word Ordo. Turkics were elite soldiers in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, India, Afghanistan and China, but Urdu language was only in India (and Pakistan today), and it has only 24 Turkish words. As a Sherif, my ancient ancestry relates to Ur. See Genesis 25:6. Prophet Ibrahim told his six sons from Ketura to go to the lands of the East as far as they can.
 
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I know about the Turkic word Ordo. Turkics were elite soldiers in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, India, Afghanistan and China, but Urdu language exists only in India and it has only 24 Turkish words. As a Sherif, my ancient ancestry relates to Ur. See Genesis 25:6. Prophet Ibrahim told his six sons from Ketura to go to the lands of the East as far as they can.
As I said, I don't know enough about Urdu language. And therefore it would not be right for me to express an opinion. I'm just sharing some issues with you in terms of Turkish linguistics. I don't have a research on the extent of the Urdu-Turkish relationship and word range, but you can compare your works with this (first Turkic) dictionary to support your research. (96mb)

 
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As I said, I don't know enough about Urdu language. And therefore it would not be right for me to express an opinion. I'm just sharing some issues with you in terms of Turkish linguistics. I don't have a research on the extent of the Urdu-Turkish relationship and word range, but you can compare your works with this (first Turkic) dictionary to support your research. (96mb)

I do not download files here. My interest is tracing my ancestral historiograph. We take pride in Urdu as our own, as well as in our local ethnicity.
 
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I do not download files here. My interest is tracing my ancestral historiograph. We take pride in Urdu as our own, as well as in our local ethnicity.
I don't have any slightest disrespect for your ethnic identity or language. That you are proud of it is something that I really sympathize with as a Nationalitarist and anti-globalist. What does what I say have to do with it?

Anyway you didn't need to download the file in the link I gave, it's a work that anyone who does a really academic study about the topics you talk about should have a look, there are prints of it translated into almost every language of the world. But it was a very revealing answer for me to understand how you locked your thoughts and whether logical thread of yours is from facts to self idea or from self idea to facts.
 
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As I said, I don't know enough about Urdu language. And therefore it would not be right for me to express an opinion. I'm just sharing some issues with you in terms of Turkish linguistics. I don't have a research on the extent of the Urdu-Turkish relationship and word range, but you can compare your works with this (first Turkic) dictionary to support your research. (96mb)

I find the historical and linguistic turn that this thread has taken pleasantly surprising given how it started out. As a native Urdu speaker currently learning Turkish, let me just say that there is much more common between the two languages than 24 words as @Novus ordu seclorum seems to say. I will write down a list off the top of my head that will easily go beyond 24:
  1. Cevab = Jawab (Answer)
  2. Cunku = Choonkay (Because)
  3. Her = Her (Every)
  4. Defol = Dafa (get out)
  5. Uceret = Ujrat (Fare, Payment)
  6. Ya = Ya (Or)
  7. Kitap = Kitab (Book)
  8. Rengarenk = Rangarang (Colorful)
  9. Aksam = Shaam (Evening)
  10. Sabah = Subah (Morning)
  11. mukemmel = mukambal (Perfect, Complete)
  12. Duvar = Deevar (Wall)
  13. Yani = Yani (Therefore)
  14. Cep = Jaib (Pocket)
  15. Meyve = Maive (Fruit, dryfruit)
  16. Tamam = tamam (Okay, complete)
  17. Lutfen = Lutf (Please, pleasure)
  18. Cay = Chai (Tea)
  19. Baraber = Baraber (With)
  20. Seker = Shakar (Sugar)
  21. Corba = Shorba (Soup)
  22. Tava = Tava (Pan)
  23. Sakin = Sakin (Calm, immovable)
  24. Tatil = Tateel (Holiday)
  25. Cuma = Jumma (Friday)
  26. Ahliyet = Ehliyat (License, Eligibility)
  27. Fark = Farq (Difference)
  28. Defa = Dafa (times)
  29. Sehir = Shehr (City)
  30. Lugat = Lughat (Vocabulary, Dictionary)
  31. Zaman = Zamana (Period)
  32. Sey = Shay (thing)
  33. Tarih = Tareekh (Date/History)
  34. Vucut = Wujood (Body, Existence)
  35. Edbiyat = Adabyat (Literature)
Ok I'll stop now - I do have other things to do lol. I am an absolute beginner so I bet someone that speaks both languages well can point out many many more words. Some words are pronounced slightly differently, some words are used slightly differently, but the connection is obvious.

The point I was trying to make was this:
Yes, like any other people, we are extremely proud of our linguistic heritage, but languages inevitably mix with each other when in geographical proximity. This is why Urdu has so many Arabic, Persian, and Turkish words. Therefore, it would be disingenuous to deny the impact of Turkish on Urdu.

Interestingly, the grammar is often very similar too - you can often translate word-for-word and get the right thing. This is not something you can do between Urdu and English, for example - this has to do with the subject-verb order I think. Example:
- Mainay aik saib khaya (mainay = I did, aik = one, saib = apple, khaya = ate)
- Ben bir elma yerim (ben = me, bir = one, elma = apple, yerim = I ate)
- I ate an apple
 
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I find the historical and linguistic turn that this thread has taken pleasantly surprising given how it started out. As a native Urdu speaker currently learning Turkish, let me just say that there is much more common between the two languages than 24 words as @Novus ordu seclorum seems to say. I will write down a list off the top of my head that will easily go beyond 24:
  1. Cevab = Jawab (Answer)
  2. Cunku = Choonkay (Because)
  3. Her = Her (Every)
  4. Defol = Dafa (get out)
  5. Uceret = Ujrat (Fare, Payment)
  6. Ya = Ya (Or)
  7. Kitap = Kitab (Book)
  8. Rengarenk = Rangarang (Colorful)
  9. Aksam = Shaam (Evening)
  10. Sabah = Subah (Morning)
  11. mukemmel = mukambal (Perfect, Complete)
  12. Duvar = Deevar (Wall)
  13. Yani = Yani (Therefore)
  14. Cep = Jaib (Pocket)
  15. Meyve = Maive (Fruit, dryfruit)
  16. Tamam = tamam (Okay, complete)
  17. Lutfen = Lutf (Please, pleasure)
  18. Cay = Chai (Tea)
  19. Baraber = Baraber (With)
  20. Seker = Shakar (Sugar)
  21. Corba = Shorba (Soup)
  22. Tava = Tava (Pan)
  23. Sakin = Sakin (Calm, immovable)
  24. Tatil = Tateel (Holiday)
  25. Cuma = Jumma (Friday)
  26. Ahliyet = Ehliyat (License, Eligibility)
  27. Fark = Farq (Difference)
  28. Defa = Dafa (times)
  29. Sehir = Shehr (City)
  30. Lugat = Lughat (Vocabulary, Dictionary)
  31. Zaman = Zamana (Period)
  32. Sey = Shay (thing)
  33. Tarih = Tareekh (Date/History)
  34. Vucut = Wujood (Body, Existence)
  35. Edbiyat = Adabyat (Literature)
Ok I'll stop now - I do have other things to do lol. I am an absolute beginner so I bet someone that speaks both languages well can point out many many more words. Some words are pronounced slightly differently, some words are used slightly differently, but the connection is obvious.

The point I was trying to make was this:
Yes, like any other people, we are extremely proud of our linguistic heritage, but languages inevitably mix with each other when in geographical proximity. This is why Urdu has so many Arabic, Persian, and Turkish words. Therefore, it would be disingenuous to deny the impact of Turkish on Urdu.

Interestingly, the grammar is often very similar too - you can often translate word-for-word and get the right thing. This is not something you can do between Urdu and English, for example - this has to do with the subject-verb order I think. Example:
- Mainay aik saib khaya (mainay = I did, aik = one, saib = apple, khaya = ate)
- Ben bir elma yerim (ben = me, bir = one, elma = apple, yerim = I ate)
- I ate an apple
I think a tragedy in Pakistan is that we didn't retain Farsi/Persian as our state language. Historically, that was the state language of our ancestral rulers dating through to the Mughals, Delhi Sultanate, etc. IMO that language could've helped us build deeper bridges in Iran and Afghanistan.
 
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I think a tragedy in Pakistan is that we didn't retain Farsi/Persian as our state language. Historically, that was the state language of our ancestral rulers dating through to the Mughals, Delhi Sultanate, etc. IMO that language could've helped us build deeper bridges in Iran and Afghanistan.
That's a direct result of colonialism. I don't like to blame it on the gora sahb but in this case, that really is the reason.
 
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Likewise, Muslim was not used in Arabic until popularized by the Quran. Mashlim is its Hebrew equivalent which can have the meanings of complementary, perfect, wholesome, or good. The point is the word was not unknown. Similarly, Urdu had to be known among a few, particularly the Hindustani ruling caste. Urdu has very few Turkish words, only 24 pure Turkish words. We use Urdu in a different way from Turks, as a language. Urdu matured in India as a language.

It has words from Chagatai an Eastern Turkic language. But "urdu" as a name was introduced in 1780s in Dehli. By it's start in the 1020s in Lahore, it appaeared with the name Lashkari or Lashkari Zaban, the language of the battalions.

i will be in turkey in june end.
Should i wear a Not Pakistani tee shirt to avoid getting targeted mistakenly ?

No I think your name and appearance will do that for you. Why do indians desire to be affiliated with Pakistanis so badly? Is it because your sacred Vedas was written by our ancestors? I doubt modern Brahmanism is the religion of the Vedic peoples which is extinct. it only take inspiration from it.
 
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I don't know enough about the word origin of Urdu used in Pakistan and where it came from. And I haven't commented on that yet. What I tried to work with above with examples, in all Turkic language groups(From Yakutia to the Baltic Sea), the words Orda/Urda have been used to mean the gathering place and Hakan's city. Thinking like yours is only related to your effort to relate to Sumerian and excluding Turkic sources. Not accepting the Kaşgarlı Mahmut as a source, excluding the historical perspective completely, ignoring the usages in all these languages from Yakut to Mongolian and making an opinion will not make your opinion consistent.

It was a name given to the language by a Delhi poet in the 18th century. The name comes from the Chagatai language, the language of the mughals. An Eastern Turkic language.

However the language itself is of Indo-Aryan origin and is natively and historically known as Lashkari or Lashkari Zaban meaning language of the battalions in reference to the battalions of the Ghaznavid Empire who occupied Lahore from where this language first emerged.

"urdu" is a much newer name. Despite the name being Turkic, the language itself is of Indo-Aryan origin.
 
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Well forget about name calling on social media against all Pakistanis. The esteemed self proclaimed defenders of Turkiye have outdid themselves in evil;


Warning brothers graphic indeed, 86 years old, disabled and kicked.





An elderly Syrian woman is recovering in hospital after being kicked in the face by a man in the Turkish city of Gaziantep, in the midst of a rising wave of anti-refugee sentiment in the country.

A video, shared widely in Turkey and Syria over the past few days, shows the woman, Leyla Muhammed, attacked while she sat on a bench.

The attacker, named by police as Sakir Cakir, has been arrested on charges of willful injury. The Turkish citizen said he had been told that Muhammed was a kidnapper, according to a statement he gave to police.

The victim is mentally disabled, local news reports indicated.

The person who beat Leyla has been arrested. She has been admitted to the hospital and her treatment has begun. Together with my wife and colleagues, we visited her and conveyed the wishes of our dear nation for her to get well soon. We stand with the oppressed against the oppressor,” said Gaziantep Governor Davut Gul in a statement on Twitter after visiting the hospital.

Gaziantep is a city of two million people located near the Syrian border, and is also home to nearly half a million Syrian refugees.

Turkey hosts 3.7 million Syrians, while the number of those seeking refuge in the country from Afghanistan and other nations has also steadily increased.

Polls indicate that the majority of Turkish citizens want the refugees to return to their countries, and one increasingly popular opposition politician, Umit Ozdag, has framed his entire platform on promising to send them back.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has pushed back against that sentiment and has announced that refugees are welcome in Turkey. Erdogan has, however, encouraged resettlement for those who want to return to Syria.

It is a politically risky stance as Turkey’s next elections are due in 2023, and many Turkish citizens hold refugees responsible for the ongoing economic crisis in the country, with the Turkish lira experiencing severe devaluation and inflation reaching alarming rates.

Former Gaziantep parliamentarian Samil Tayyar noted in a tweet that Cakir has an extensive criminal record.

The assault has been condemned by a variety of individuals and organisations on social media.

Many Syrians have taken photos covering one side of their face with their palm, imitating an image of Muhammed after she had been hit.

“It’s a kick in the face of humanity and one of many for us as Syrians. I’m standing in solidarity with the 70-year-old Syrian woman, Leyla, who was kicked in her face yesterday by a racist in Gaziantep, Turkey,” tweeted Syrian journalist Husam Hezaber.

Turkey’s International Refugee Rights Association stated that it was tracking the situation.

“All criminal complaints and court proceedings regarding the attacker will be followed to the very end by the lawyers of our association,” the organisation said on Twitter.

Others highlighted the video as a further example of violence towards women in Turkey.

“The kick launched at the Syrian woman was launched against all of humanity. Every day, thousands of immigrant women are subjected to torture, violence and humiliation. We will absolutely bring to account this racism and this violence,” Turkey’s Women’s Solidarity Committees said.

 
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Well forget about name calling on social media against all Pakistanis. The esteemed self proclaimed defenders of Turkiye have outdid themselves in evil;


Warning brothers graphic indeed, 86 years old, disabled and kicked.





An elderly Syrian woman is recovering in hospital after being kicked in the face by a man in the Turkish city of Gaziantep, in the midst of a rising wave of anti-refugee sentiment in the country.

A video, shared widely in Turkey and Syria over the past few days, shows the woman, Leyla Muhammed, attacked while she sat on a bench.

The attacker, named by police as Sakir Cakir, has been arrested on charges of willful injury. The Turkish citizen said he had been told that Muhammed was a kidnapper, according to a statement he gave to police.

The victim is mentally disabled, local news reports indicated.

The person who beat Leyla has been arrested. She has been admitted to the hospital and her treatment has begun. Together with my wife and colleagues, we visited her and conveyed the wishes of our dear nation for her to get well soon. We stand with the oppressed against the oppressor,” said Gaziantep Governor Davut Gul in a statement on Twitter after visiting the hospital.

Gaziantep is a city of two million people located near the Syrian border, and is also home to nearly half a million Syrian refugees.

Turkey hosts 3.7 million Syrians, while the number of those seeking refuge in the country from Afghanistan and other nations has also steadily increased.

Polls indicate that the majority of Turkish citizens want the refugees to return to their countries, and one increasingly popular opposition politician, Umit Ozdag, has framed his entire platform on promising to send them back.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has pushed back against that sentiment and has announced that refugees are welcome in Turkey. Erdogan has, however, encouraged resettlement for those who want to return to Syria.

It is a politically risky stance as Turkey’s next elections are due in 2023, and many Turkish citizens hold refugees responsible for the ongoing economic crisis in the country, with the Turkish lira experiencing severe devaluation and inflation reaching alarming rates.

Former Gaziantep parliamentarian Samil Tayyar noted in a tweet that Cakir has an extensive criminal record.

The assault has been condemned by a variety of individuals and organisations on social media.

Many Syrians have taken photos covering one side of their face with their palm, imitating an image of Muhammed after she had been hit.

“It’s a kick in the face of humanity and one of many for us as Syrians. I’m standing in solidarity with the 70-year-old Syrian woman, Leyla, who was kicked in her face yesterday by a racist in Gaziantep, Turkey,” tweeted Syrian journalist Husam Hezaber.

Turkey’s International Refugee Rights Association stated that it was tracking the situation.

“All criminal complaints and court proceedings regarding the attacker will be followed to the very end by the lawyers of our association,” the organisation said on Twitter.

Others highlighted the video as a further example of violence towards women in Turkey.

“The kick launched at the Syrian woman was launched against all of humanity. Every day, thousands of immigrant women are subjected to torture, violence and humiliation. We will absolutely bring to account this racism and this violence,” Turkey’s Women’s Solidarity Committees said.

i do really hope, that people here open their eyes towards Turkey! Here people r fans of Ertugrul

Well, Ur is Sumerian and Du is Sumerian, hence Urdu is Sumerian. That is how Sumerian language is structured, putting basic words together to create another word. We pronounce Urdu the way it is written which is different from Turkish and Latin pronunciation beginning with O. Horde is also a related word, but Ordo in Latin translates to Order in English. It's source is not Turkish.
buddy u know nothing abt us! Let us Pakistani people talk abt things related to us. Urdu IS Ordu Which is the Turkish Word for Army/Army Formation (lashkar)

FACT!
 
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i do really hope, that people here open their eyes towards Turkey! Here people r fans of Ertugrul

Bro he is symbolic of the hate aimed at us that's it. I just showed the depths of evil they can sink to. Turkey is our ally, otherwise we are just as stupid as those who portrayed the acts of a several dozen perverts filming women as the whole Pakistani nation.
 
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The Turks built empires not only in present-day India, but also in the lands of todays modern states such as Russia, Iran, Egypt and Ukraine and many others.

I know you are trying to gain sympathy from humble Islamist Pakistanis here. Not my concern but since you mentioned my country as some Turkish colonized territory then I am going to answer please read this carefully.

Turkish have never ever ruled any part of IRAN. Ever. Your Turkish identity (still ~80-85 % Indoeuropean Anatolian by blood) is merely 800-850 years old. Turkey is not an Oghuz nation by any means. It is not the legacy of the Seljuk empire or anything. This is an adapted identity by a native Anatolian population which by thick major proportion is still genetically Indo-European (Nonturkic) like neighboring Iranics, Armenians, and even Syriacs. Turkish identity is a socio-linguistic adaptation of a migrant monarch and nothing else. One can larp as much as they want but blood does not lie man.

main-qimg-83816b58576f0c469b252525e4f50ba0-pjlq


Ever since your Anatolian Turk identity established itself and my Azeri Turk Identity (Afshar Qereqlu Turk from Khoy) settled, No Turkish has ever ruled Iran. We clashed, fought wars, and exchanged territories in the middle east but that is it. Even at the times when the ottoman empire was very successful in subduing and colonizing arabs, Balkans, etc they failed to move an inch into Iranian territory because of us Azeris Turks of Iran.

Pre-Turk Identity, it was a different ball game as Persian + Medes (Kurds, Pre Turkification Azeris) Iranics ruled your entire country (preserved in ~80-85% of your genetic construct) for centuries, extending into Thrace (they were superpowers). When they did not, it was Greeks or Byzantines. The point is Anatolia was a colonized bone of contention between Iranian empires and Southern Europe. Post Turkification no Anatolian Turk has ever expanded into Iran. I respect Turkey for we share blood, culture, food, and linguistics. Even if you look at our genetics, Iran and Turkey are extremely close to each other like blood-brother nations. I just wanted to clarify this misconception. You may carry on with whatever is going on in this thread.

This is the map of the Achaemenid empire ... similar territory was maintained by other persian/iranic empires for centuries.

main-qimg-1a568b54102b1b3390dc3384c3cc50d7-pjlq



And this is a post Turkification map of the Qizilbash empire of Afshars at its max. Like I said, ever since our identities were established, the Iran-Turkey border came into being which never really changed to this day.

images
 
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Bro he is symbolic of the hate aimed at us that's it. I just showed the depths of evil they can sink to. Turkey is our ally, otherwise we are just as stupid as those who portrayed the acts of a several dozen perverts filming women as the whole Pakistani nation.
those BTW werent Pakistanis.........I had reviewed those videos shared by the turks that i interacted in twitter. Those were Indian Punjabis, Bangladeshis or indian muslims. They were making videos with loud indian punjabi bhangra music in the background etc and r dark skinned with those silly mustaches that indians keep.

There r only 15000 Pakistanis in Turkey. There aint no refugees of Pak there as we arnt from a war torn country. We dont get refugee status in either Europe or Turkey or elsewhere. Its just that these ''mighty turks'' cant differentiate b/w different nationalities. They see a dark skinned person and think he is a Pakistani. Even though we Pakistanis dont have much of a dark skin. We r much more fairer in complexation then Indians/BD people. I taught them how we Pakistanis look and how our language sounds like.

We r much more closer to Kurds in our looks, thats the example i gave them to make them understand how a typical Pakistani look is like.

I was shown 3 videos by them and out of those 3 only one video i had suspected was a Pakistani, as he had a bit fairer complexation like how Faisalabadis look. But that too was suspicion.

I advised them that report such accounts in tiktok or in social media to police instead of bitching and moaning in internet abt those people that u dont know abt. Even this that they arnt refugees in anywhere in the World.

Mainly the Pakistanis who go to Turkey are tourists! Second group are of Students then the 3rd and final group are of scientists and engineers. And those scientists and engineers work in their def. sector. With ASFAT for construction of Milgem class for PN, designing of Jinnah Class with STM. Manufacturing and updating of Anka UAVs with TAI and on the other projects like TFX etc. There r also a lot of engineers working with Bayraktar on their projects and a lot with Havelsan and Rocketsan as well. Their Khan Ballistic missile even has a lot of Pakistani input in it.

Pakistan is the 7th largest producer of doctors and engineers in the World. And Turkey also has an agreement with Pak to tap this resource of Pakistan. Its also a Missile and Nuclear power. Infect its the fastest growing nuke power in the world.

These r the facts i told them to educate them abt Pakistan.
 
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