Anniversary of Babri Mosque Demolition Today

[pagans]

Twenty years later: Why the Berlin Wall fell : City : S A Aiyar : TOI Blogs

 

[Halaku Khan]

TOI? i have better things to do than read that rag of a paper. Either answer what i stated or move on.

The author of that article is some one whose work many wise people find worth reading.

Never mind, you can move on.

 

[AHMED85]

Since you were highlighting oppression of minority in India, I highlighted the fact that the majority of Hindus voted for people who came in from minority, that shows you how tolerant Indian society is.

Fanatics are all over the world, so are they in India, but the Important point is the Fanatic population in India remain to be a Minority as reflected in elections.

ps. I will soon be opening a thread on Parachinar, hope to see you there.

are Muslims are not minorities if yes than why you destroyed Babri Mosque. why your government give not order for construction again.
i cant say that in your country there is no right for minorities but your dealing with Muslims are not satisfied ed.

 

[Moorkh]

Hey whats wrong with claiming ones history back from ruins, I clearly mentioned that BMD was bad, things should have been solved by talking and discussions. And btw you saying get back at brits huh.. I didn't see them destroying any temples or places of worship.. And it's not just about a temple.. It's about muslim mindset as well, they still live in the glory days of ruling over us and this applies to all muslims in the subcontinent, more or less all of them think on the same lines. And as far as destroying Qutub is concerned well Ram was not born in delhi was he? .. Krishna was not born in delhi was he?? Im not saying get each and every temple back which were destroyed by Islamic morons. But yes certainly the ones which are of great significance for Hindus. And I don't need to go to Afghan to fight them, they're doing it themselves and so are Pakistanis. I'm just enjoying the show mate. What you sow is what you reap and that has been proved decisively in the case of Afghans and Pakistanis.

selective amnesia. forget about some injustices and take revenge for the rest. very convenient.
"the british did not destroy temples". well done. so its only the temples that matter. what about the jalianwala bagh massacre, or the killing of thousands of indians in the aftermath of the 1857 war of independence, or what about the slave like treatment we got for over 90 years. you dont think those should be avenged?
isnt the dignity of those ancestors impotant to you?

unless it can be used in a more general sense, no argument can be considered moral.

the holy places of hindus were never the ram-janmabhoomi or krishna-janmabhoomi. the holy places were the 4 teerth sthal haridwar, varanasi and sangam (these are the ones in north india. people in south india have very different priorities and support for the janmbhoomi isnt much beyond the hindi belt). hindus never in recorded history went to any of the janmbhoomis to pray. teerth yatras are much more famous and well known. so please dont give me the BS about the janmbhoomi being extra holy. its a recent construct.

 

[Moorkh]

Hey whats wrong with claiming ones history back from ruins, I clearly mentioned that BMD was bad, things should have been solved by talking and discussions. And btw you saying get back at brits huh.. I didn't see them destroying any temples or places of worship.. And it's not just about a temple.. It's about muslim mindset as well, they still live in the glory days of ruling over us and this applies to all muslims in the subcontinent, more or less all of them think on the same lines. And as far as destroying Qutub is concerned well Ram was not born in delhi was he? .. Krishna was not born in delhi was he?? Im not saying get each and every temple back which were destroyed by Islamic morons. But yes certainly the ones which are of great significance for Hindus. And I don't need to go to Afghan to fight them, they're doing it themselves and so are Pakistanis. I'm just enjoying the show mate. What you sow is what you reap and that has been proved decisively in the case of Afghans and Pakistanis.

on a lighter note:

another way to look at it is that babur came and destroyed the temple. this is part of your history. by building the destroyed temple all over again you in a way try to skip over part of your history. essentially destroying one part of history for another. we cant have that kind of hypocrisy can we.

 

[hindesi]

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant??? thats the root problem behind Babri issue man.. you cannot dismiss the facts just because you "feel" it is irrelevant. The main point is building a temple because it existed before babar and co went on the rampage. Agreed demolishing Babri was uncool to say least and Im no big BJP fan but if there is evidence of temple at that spot punish people who demolished Babri I don't care.. I just want the truth to prevail and a temple built at that place. Punish BJP jail Advani i cud'nt care less!!

Agreed. But also irrelevant. Hindu rulers also destroyed Buddhist shrines to make temples, should buddhists start a yatra to rebuild them?

Give links backing your claims.. Bodhgaya still has the spot where Buddha attained enlightenment, many stupas across India.. And if some Hindu rulers did indeed destroyed Buddhist shrines and built temples on the very same spot.. I say bring down the temples and make the Buddhist shrines..

Can't speak about Varanasi. But yes a mosque is present in Mathura, but there is also a huge complex containing a temple right next to it.
[\Quote]

you seem to be missing the main point a temple right next to the mosque.. don't you think there is something wrong with the very picture??

Forgive me if i sound like a tape recorder but also Irrelevant.

of course.. whatever you say sir.. whatever you say!!

The only people that need to be kicked out are Saffronist historians. These people have no knowledge of history.

Yeah and leftists are the masters of history.

"Ek Dhaka aur do, babri masjid tor do" was a slogan of the RSS/VHP/BJP not the congress.

RSS/VHP/BJP did indeed bring down Babri.. Jail them.. Hang them if it make syou happy.. just make the temple at the right place where it belongs.. eonugh of leftist and minority appeasement policies of the state. Someone had to speak for hindus and if for that you want RSS/VHP/BJP to be jailed pls do.

kar sevaks of the VHP you mean? certainly they need to be punished.

yeah round up all the people who destroyed Babri.. jail them.. but also jail the muslims who started the riots in rest of the country.

Yes, all people who rioted, whether Hindu or Muslim need to be punished.

precisely

The BJP says it will agree to the supreme court ruling, but then wasn't it Advani who said that Law and History didn't matter in matters of faith? The BJP and its supporters cannot be taken at face value.

Sure and congress can be taken on it's face value!! if there are going to be different yardsticks to measure different parties with.. fair enough... let this nation go to hell.

What needs to be constructed at the site is a memorial to the victims of the riots.

Yes no doubt that would indeed be a nice gesture to show (we don't need to prove it.. booming muslim and chiristian populations are good enough proofs) that India is secular. But that can happen after the temple is built. Period

 

[Khajur]

17 years later, no one gives a damn about temples and mosques. It is not an issue that the BJP can use to come to power, nor will the BJP ever hope to construct anything on the disputed site. I state again the only thing that matters is justice to victims of the riots. Nothing else.

It was a huge emotive issue issue before the destruction of Babri Mosque .As the Mosque is out of sight , not offensive to hindu sentiments any more and there is a small temporary structure of "Ram Lala" which functions as a defacto temple till a permament structure gets bulid.So to say "no one gives a damn about temples and mosques" is wrong and has no basis in reality.


Now i too seek justice for victims of the riots. But why succesive govt of different parties failed in giving that??
BTW the Biggest riots took place in state of Maharastra when cong was in power .It neither did much during the riots or hardly made any effort to give justice in all thse yrs its been in power there.

It is irrelevant whether their was a temple present before the mosque. Whether Ram was real or not is besides the point, the fact is there were a lot of temples destroyed during Islamic rule, do we build them all? By the same logic, a lot of Buddhist shrines were destroyed by Hindu rulers, do we build them to?

look..what irrelevant here is what u personally think

Fact remins Lord Ram is worshipped as god by nearly a billion hindus in india and around the world.

There is no evidence to suggest a lot of Buddhist shrines were destroyed by Hindu rulers except in hallucination of communist historians who try to somehow negate the culpability of temples destroyed during Islamic rule by suggesting hindus also destroyed Buddhist shrines just like u tried to did here .

Again fact remains that both hindu temples and buddist shrines destroyed muslim rulers to the extent there are only few existing symbols of both religions which were in place for thousands of years in pakistan and Banladesh before the advent of islam.

who destroyed prominent buddist sites in Taxlila and Nalanda,hindus??

I'm not saying hindus must take revenge of the centuries of atrocites on their religion by demolishing mosques and killing muslims now,but neither they should never forget the true histrory in the name of secularism nor hold it aganst people u who cant forget the same.

In any case,avarage hindu is fully aware of the past when he see his broken temples or one mosque standing over near our most scared temples at the holiest sites every day.

The logic that ayodhya holds a special place for Hindus makes little sense, firstly there are a lot of places that claim to be the birthplace of Ram, second, it has not been established that the ayodhya in UP is the same ayodhya in the Ramayana. So shall we waste another 100 years figuring out the truth? Shall be continue to be drawn in a medieval debate at the cost of nation building? I won't be, bring justice to the victims and move the **** on

All i can see is the topic hold little sense to u.
Instead of saying that u choose to make expert comments about status Ram and his birth place. .

I'm sure most leaders of this country are aware of hindu sensitives regarding Ram.Like it or not, noone can get away with hurting hindu sentiments in the name of psedu secularism or development as we saw such attmempts failed miserably in the past.

 

[pagans]

on a lighter note:

another way to look at it is that babur came and destroyed the temple. this is part of your history. by building the destroyed temple all over again you in a way try to skip over part of your history. essentially destroying one part of history for another. we cant have that kind of hypocrisy can we.

Babur was an invader.
He put his mark on this land.
Inorder to remove the shame Hindus want to remove it. Is that wrong ?

 

[AHMED85]

Babur was an invader.
He put his mark on this land.
Inorder to remove the shame Hindus want to remove it. Is that wrong ?

but you have no right to destroyed any of religious land mark from you country cos other wise you will soon get name of
The Religious Free State Of India

India ambition of minorities right

 

[Iggy]

Babur was an invader.
He put his mark on this land.
Inorder to remove the shame Hindus want to remove it. Is that wrong ?

Yes it is wrong unlike the era of Babur we live in a much civilized world .. we need to be more mature than those who live at the time of babur and also muslims also contributed a lot of things like Taj mahal..Do you want to destroy that too to remove the shame??Heck the President Of India live in a Palace build by the British Empire for their Viceroy ..you want to destroy that too??

 

[Iggy]

but you have no right to destroyed any of religious land mark from you country cos other wise you will soon get name of
The Religious Free State Of India

India ambition of minorities right

yes one mans comment is Indias ambition for minorities..from your logic i can assume that suicide attack is Pakistan's ambition..

 

[Khajur]

the holy places of hindus were never the ram-janmabhoomi or krishna-janmabhoomi. the holy places were the 4 teerth sthal haridwar, varanasi and sangam (these are the ones in north india. people in south india have very different priorities and support for the janmbhoomi isnt much beyond the hindi belt). hindus never in recorded history went to any of the janmbhoomis to pray. teerth yatras are much more famous and well known. so please dont give me the BS about the janmbhoomi being extra holy. its a recent construct.

Its nothing but shows ur ignorance when u say ram-janmabhoomi or krishna-janmabhoomi were never holy places of hindus.Its like saying Bethlehem isnt much imortant to christians. Kaski,mathura,Ayodhaya are prominent holy sites beside the char dhams .

The char dham u quoted is wrong .They are Kashi(varanashi),Dwarika in Gujarat , Jaganath Puri in Odisa and Rameswaran at the end tip of south india.

 

[hindesi]

on a lighter note:

another way to look at it is that babur came and destroyed the temple. this is part of your history. by building the destroyed temple all over again you in a way try to skip over part of your history. essentially destroying one part of history for another. we cant have that kind of hypocrisy can we.

Yes Mine and millions of hindus across the globe. Consider this.. your house got destroyed in an earth quake.. will you say that you are not going to build it becuase that way i'll be skipping what happened in past?.. what kind of logic are you giving here??

Building the temple does not mean one is saying no Babar did not demolish it.. lame dude I expected much better arguments from you.. sadly my expectations a tad too high.

selective amnesia. forget about some injustices and take revenge for the rest. very convenient.
"the british did not destroy temples". well done. so its only the temples that matter. what about the jalianwala bagh massacre, or the killing of thousands of indians in the aftermath of the 1857 war of independence, or what about the slave like treatment we got for over 90 years. you dont think those should be avenged?
isnt the dignity of those ancestors impotant to you?

unless it can be used in a more general sense, no argument can be considered moral.

the holy places of hindus were never the ram-janmabhoomi or krishna-janmabhoomi. the holy places were the 4 teerth sthal haridwar, varanasi and sangam (these are the ones in north india. people in south india have very different priorities and support for the janmbhoomi isnt much beyond the hindi belt). hindus never in recorded history went to any of the janmbhoomis to pray. teerth yatras are much more famous and well known. so please dont give me the BS about the janmbhoomi being extra holy. its a recent construct.

First of all both the cases are miles apart when it comes to sentiments.. thousands died in the freedom struggle and the best revenge was kicking the brits out of sub-continent. The dignity was restored to a certain extent. Only way to avenging if one wants to is out doing them economically, culturally and beating them at their own game (capitalism).

The issue of ram-janmabhumi and krishna-janmabhumi are in religious context.. one cannot equate slavery with religious oppression.. both are oppressions but with a difference.

Who says these places were not holy places do you even know why a teertha yatra is undertaken by an individual and how is it different from going to a temple in your locality?? Everything is so simple from your point of view isn't it. There is a temple in my locality and then there is a temple thousands of miles away on high altitudes.. what a temple is a temple right?? I can't help but laugh at your arguments.. hilarious..

Stop making lame arguments if you don't know what you are talking about. Let me explain whats the difference char dham have a special significance (holy centers) and are undertaken to attain Moksha and cleanse one from his/her sins. Let me give you an example which would make it more clearer.. Mecca is holy place of muslims unlike every masjid in your locality.. get the point sir?

And what makes you believe that hindus did not go to Ayoddya to pray it's not a holy place of course but it's an important shrine if that makes it easier for you to understand the difference. Ayodhya was always an important place to worship for hindus (in hindi belt ofcourse). Just like Varanasi and mathura are. The purpose of teerth yatra and temples at Ayodhya, Varanasi, Mathura are totally different.. don't serve me your pseudo-secular BS.

 

[Khajur]

Yes it is wrong unlike the era of Babur we live in a much civilized world .. we need to be more mature than those who live at the time of babur and also muslims also contributed a lot of things like Taj mahal..Do you want to destroy that too to remove the shame??Heck the President Of India live in a Palace build by the British Empire for their Viceroy ..you want to destroy that too??

Thats why we didnt see large scale destruction of Mosques like that happened in Spain after the end of muslim rule.

Ram janmabhoomi is always been a emotive issue just like Somnath mandir which was bulit in 1940s again after suffering many centureis of destruction .

The Babri Mosque built over the exising temple at Ayodhya became the centre of collective hindu aspiration to finally destroy the sysmbol of muslim atrocites on the hindu religion over the many centuries of muslim rule and its good that the dilapidated structure that was in shambles for decades gone and now we could move in to the future instead of debating the past .

 

[hindesi]

Yes it is wrong unlike the era of Babur we live in a much civilized world .. we need to be more mature than those who live at the time of babur and also muslims also contributed a lot of things like Taj mahal..Do you want to destroy that too to remove the shame??Heck the President Of India live in a Palace build by the British Empire for their Viceroy ..you want to destroy that too??

No one hear is saying that Babri demolition was good, if anything is was abominable act with disastrous consequences.

But in all this hoopla of demolition why is everyone forgetting one straight forward fact that there was a temple once which was highly regarded by hindus and babar destroyed it to pave way for babri to hoist the flag of Islam in hindu heartland. No one is saying go destroy Taj Mahal these are figments of your imagination and your conclusions and correlations of various historical monuments with babri.. babri is a totally different issue.. no one is against any other mughal monument. It's about a temple and Hindus have a valid point when they as for the temple of ram lala to be built at that place. Period