Anna Hazare released from jail after India-wide protests, begins fasting

[twoplustwoisfour]

corrpution is everywhere. and the reason it is rampant so much is becoz it has political Armour.
JAnlokpal Bill clearly states that investigative agencies like CBI will not have to take permission from any politician or PM office to carry out their investigations.

OK, then who in the CBI decides which cases to pursue and which to ignore? Who ensures that the institution will not be used for blackmail by those decision makers, as it is used by the govt. right now?

How do you know if Harry Potter exists or not ?

Do you work for the Congress ?

Please don't troll. And no, I don't work for the Congress.

 

[justanobserver]

Do we NEED another organization like Election Commission? like the CVC? We need individuals, not institutions.

Strongly disagree ! We need to build strong institutions, because it's illogical to wait for the promised messiah !

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

No it will not have overwhelming power so as to cripple the Govt in an unfair way.

You are just listening to Manish Tiwari too much.

Unfair way? That's it? Please make some logical arguments.

 

[KS]

Unfair way? That's it? Please make some logical arguments.

You get what you give !

And you think you are making 'logical' arguments here ?

 

[metro]

OK, then who in the CBI decides which cases to pursue and which to ignore? Who ensures that the institution will not be used for blackmail by those decision makers, as it is used by the govt. right now?

Please dont argue just for the sake of it.

I fear my boss becoz i know he has the power to fire me at will without any explanation.
When i know my boss cannot fire me without any proper reason, and will be liable for any such action. i will not fear him.

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

Any current pictures and videos of the fast yet?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

I disagree Individuals would be great but we lack a great system to weed out corrupt individuals effectively. LOOK AT INDIVIDUALS LIKE GEORGE FERNADEZ, GENERAL KAPOOR, LALOO, KOTA, ETC. YOU WANT FOLKS LIKE THIS.....THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON....AND THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS...This bill by Anna clearly attacks the issues that prevent individuals of the right character from coming into any selection process.

DEBATE....WHAT HAPPENED TO 47 YRS? THAT SHOULD BE TOPIC OF THE BLOODY DEBATE.....

Please control your emotions. You want to know what happened to those 42 years? Well, you elected corrupt people in those 42 years.

Strongly disagree ! We need to build strong institutions, because it's illogical to wait for the promised messiah !

It is illogical to build institutions if they are not used effectively. The purpose of the Election Commission, CVC etc is all good, but as long as they are not headed by clean people, the institution does not matter!

 

[axisofevil]

Hey 2 peanuts.....keep on whining and India will never be corrupt free....act now and give Babus a reason to heed and take notice...Instead of sitting on your a$$, get up and march. You could use a little exercise.....socialize and exchange ideas....maybe you might learn a thing or two.

 

[axisofevil]

Please control your emotions. You want to know what happened to those 42 years? Well, you elected corrupt people in those 42 years.



It is illogical to build institutions if they are not used effectively. The purpose of the Election Commission, CVC etc is all good, but as long as they are not headed by clean people, the institution does not matter!

So much for electing "strong willed individuals" right....Do you see the flaw in your argument? .....I am not going to reply to your BS and i ask others to do the same ....ignore the moron.....he is probably Pawar's son (Banchood)

 

[sab]

Agreed. Hitler was elected by the people. Which makes the German people responsible for his acts. Similarly, it is all of us who are responsible for the acts of our elected representatives.

Again, if so many of you support these activists, why not participate in the political process? Why this 'fast unto death' stuff?


Thank you. You are nailing the crux of the problem. We should have a comprehensive debate on that. We need much more contemplation on this issue.



Do we NEED another organization like Election Commission? like the CVC? We need individuals, not institutions.

As I said, the politicians have created a seperate class for themselves. ....Like auto drivers, workers, peasants, students.....If they feel your action against any of them can bring down all of them, they will all gang up on you forgetting their own differences.....You can not win an election without being one among them. How can you educate enough people to get selected...when other politicians know how to manupulate mind of poors...how can you compet with their financial and muscle power... How can you get involved in buying -selling of seats????
So , you need a straight way to nail hard. Did not bhagat Singh say, " Bahra ko sunane ke liye dhamake ki zarurat hai..."

No, we do not need individuals. How can you guarantee about an individual? We need a system which itself keep check on its executives. I agree , it is difficult to make a full proof system, so it must be a dynamic process. After obsserving for few years we can think of its loopholes and think of preventive amendments...

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Please dont argue just for the sake of it.

I fear my boss becoz i know he has the power to fire me at will without any explanation.
When i know my boss cannot fire me without any proper reason, and will be liable for any such action. i will not fear him.

Let's take your example. Your boss will not fire you if you are a good performer and his promotion depended on your performance. If he is the owner, then his profits depend on your performance. So there are proper checks and balances there.

If the CBI is not answerable to anyone, then who stops it's head from launching witch hunts for his personal gain?

 

[srsrsr]

Are Kalmadi and Sharad Pawar NOT the elected representatives in Lok Sabha? Have they NOT been voted into power by a majority of people in their constituencies? How else do you define the will of the people?

Who is Anna Hazare anyways? If he enjoys popular support, why doesn't he stand for elections?

No one is questioning the electoral process. THis move is all about strengthenting the governance. Forget strengthening, we need basic - good - governance. However what we've seen
a) You elect a person
b) he loots country
c) you wait for term completion
d) you vote person from diff party
No repeat from #b

So its an very visible flaw somewhere in our so-called-electoral democracy and this is a step in addressing that. Lets not get in to effectiveness/end result, but lets take atleast one step at a time. This attempt may not yield the results we want, but not-attempting will never yield the results we want

 

[justanobserver]

Please control your emotions. You want to know what happened to those 42 years? Well, you elected corrupt people in those 42 years.



It is illogical to build institutions if they are not used effectively. The purpose of the Election Commission, CVC etc is all good, but as long as they are not headed by clean people, the institution does not matter!

Are you aware that the government ('the will of the people ' according to you) has already recommended a lokpal bill ? (which is an eyewash)

 

[metro]

Let's take your example. Your boss will not fire you if you are a good performer and his promotion depended on your performance. If he is the owner, then his profits depend on your performance. So there are proper checks and balances there.

This is flawed logic.
When my boss is certain that my performance, good or bad, is not going to affect his comfort zone at all, why would he bother about me at all.

If the CBI is not answerable to anyone, then who stops it's head from launching witch hunts for his personal gain?

Becoz there wont be any one person in authority there. People will be appointed, serve their term and leave for the newer ones.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

As I said, the politicians have created a seperate class for themselves. ....Like auto drivers, workers, peasants, students.....If they feel your action against any of them can bring down all of them, they will all gang up on you forgetting their own differences.....You can not win an election without being one among them. How can you educate enough people to get selected...when other politicians know how to manupulate mind of poors...how can you compet with their financial and muscle power... How can you get involved in buying -selling of seats????
So , you need a straight way to nail hard. Did not bhagat Singh say, " Bahra ko sunane ke liye dhamake ki zarurat hai..."

Well sir, if you truly believe this way, then I'm afraid you've lost faith in our Parliamentary democracy. If we are to follow your line of thinking, a complete evolution of our democratic process is needed. No Lokpal can bring in that evolution I'm afraid.

No, we do not need individuals. How can you guarantee about an individual? We need a system which itself keep check on its executives. I agree , it is difficult to make a full proof system, so it must be a dynamic process. After obsserving for few years we can think of its loopholes and think of preventive amendments...

Kindly elaborate on this line of thought. What kind of dynamic process are we talking about?