Anna Hazare released from jail after India-wide protests, begins fasting

[twoplustwoisfour]

So its an very visible flaw somewhere in our so-called-electoral democracy and this is a step in addressing that. Lets not get in to effectiveness/end result, but lets take atleast one step at a time. This attempt may not yield the results we want, but not-attempting will never yield the results we want

Then lets debate the step that we are taking, rather than throwing mud at the wall and hoping some of it will stick.

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------

Are you aware that the government ('the will of the people ' according to you) has already recommended a lokpal bill ? (which is an eyewash)

Yes, I am. It's a useless bill and won't change 1 thing.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

This is flawed logic.
When my boss is certain that my performance, good or bad, is not going to affect his comfort zone at all, why would he bother about me at all.

Agreed. So if you have independent agencies with no proper accountability structure, they can do whatever the hell they want, without thinking of the consequences. We don't want a body like that.

Becoz there wont be any one person in authority there. People will be appointed, serve their term and leave for the newer ones.

But who do they report to? Who are they answerable to?

 

[justanobserver]

Yes, I am. It's a useless bill and won't change 1 thing.

Agreed. So if you have independent agencies with no proper accountability structure, they can do whatever the hell they want, without thinking of the consequences. We don't want a body like that.

You posts have no rational basis. What you're doing is plain trolling. Ignore time

 

[metro]

Agreed. So if you have independent agencies with no proper accountability structure, they can do whatever the hell they want, without thinking of the consequences. We don't want a body like that.

It has been repeated to you many times that there wont be just one individual taking the final decision, but a whole group of people.
And in the course of time, the system can be fine tuned, if any need arise.

But who do they report to? Who are they answerable to?

Public.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Aamir Khan writes to PM in support of Anna Hazare

 

[jha]

Lets not make this a WE v/s They...
Anti-politician mood is not good for democracy..We need Netas and Babus , only better ones..

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

It has been repeated to you many times that there wont be just one individual taking the final decision, but a whole group of people.
And in the course of time, the system can be fine tuned, if any need arise.



Public.

Your ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES are answerable to the Public.

And they don't take any decisions by themselves, there's a CABINET which has been elected by YOU!

 

[metro]

Your ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES are answerable to the Public.

And they don't take any decisions by themselves, there's a CABINET which has been elected by YOU!

Ignore time.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

^^

Ditto. I'm out of this thread.

 

[sab]

Well sir, if you truly believe this way, then I'm afraid you've lost faith in our Parliamentary democracy. If we are to follow your line of thinking, a complete evolution of our democratic process is needed. No Lokpal can bring in that evolution I'm afraid.



Kindly elaborate on this line of thought. What kind of dynamic process are we talking about?

No, I have not lost faith on democratic process. But I am against to the belief...' What we have got is the ultimate solution of our quest for best political system' We should keep on considering pros and cons of system available to us, so that we can strengthen it further. ' We have our elected representatives in the Assembly so we can sleep peacefully'- I do not buy this concept. Rather we should search for a system which ensures that our representatives do not forget what they have been selected for. I am not preaching for an uprising

The socond point, I do not have to eleborate. You take example of any organization, think whether it is functioning as per people's expectation...if not try to think why not...and what are the solutions............All of us have the capacity to think and the right to do that.

I should request the members to abstain from Rahul Gandhi or Congress or BJP in the discussion. It make us look like political propagandists. Toppling any government or bring another one is no solution. The solution we are searching to strengthen the system so that no one can become corrupt.

Again saying.."No one can become corrupt ".....is too idealistic and may not be possible in real life. But we can keep the phrase as ideal and try to aproximate it with experiment on available systems.

Why we need such process like Hazare....? Because, our representatives are not coming to us to hear what we want (in our democracy we are just listeners and they are the speakers ...always).....So we should stand with one brave man who makes them listen to us.....

 

[President Camacho]

I am going to be at Jantar Mantar tomorrow at 1 PM.

I do not know how many of you will support Hazare in this, but I, as a responsible citizen of this world, am bound to stand against corruption, whether it takes place in India, Pakistan, the USA, or China. Wherever I am, I will fight against it in whatever form I can.

I am asking of all of you to be proactive in this drive, and if not just for corruption, then at least for the sake of democracy, please do come and show the power of the people.

I have already talked to a few people (never knew them before today), and they promised me of their presence at Jantar Mantar tomorrow. I will be there, and hope you will be there too!

I hope all of you understand that all this drive requires of you is your time. Not your money, not your energy,... only your will. The government is our employee, and we as the employer, are duty-bound to solicit the government's answer.

We have always talked against corruption, now this is the time to turn our talks into action. Time to show how honest we are with ourselves.

 

[metro]

 

[JanjaWeed]

this is a true test for all those people who come in the media & lecture us about corruption. this is the time for all these bigwigs of bollywood, industrialists, media personalities, sports personalities, civil society & celebrrities to put the money where their mouth is!! i hope this agitation doesn't fizzle out, something good should come out. indian media can make this happen by giving as much publicity as they can to this movement.

 

[mehboobkz]

CBI, our premier investigative agency, which ultimately reports to politicians. How can they investigate the people who appoint them? It is like asking your maid to prosecute you.

 

[metro]

26. Complaints against officers or employees of Lokpal: (1) Complaints against employees or officers of Lokpal shall be dealt with separately and as per provisions of this section.
(2) Such complaint could relate to an allegation of an offence punishable under Prevention of Corruption Act or a misconduct or a dishonest enquiry or investigation.
(3) As soon as such a complaint is received, the same shall be displayed on the website of Lokpal, alongwith the contents of the complaint.
(4) Investigations into each such complaint shall be completed within a month of its receipt.
(5) In addition to examining the allegations against the said official, the allegations shall especially be examined against sections 107, 166, 167, 177, 182, 191, 192, 196, 199, 200, 201, 202, 204, 217, 218, 219, 463, 464, 468, 469, 470, 471, 474 of Indian Penal Code.
(6) If, during the course of investigations, the Lokpal feels that the charges are likely to be sustained, the Lokpal shall divest such officer of all his responsibilities and powers and shall place him under suspension.
(7) If after completion of enquiry or investigations, Lokpal decides to prosecute that person under Prevention of Corruption Act, 1988 or holds him guilty of any misconduct or of conducting dishonest enquiry or investigations, then that person shall not work with Lokpal anymore. Lokpal shall either dismiss that person from the job, if that person is in the employment of Lokpal, or shall repatriate him, if he is on deputation.
Provided that no order under this clause shall be passed without giving reasonable opportunity of being heard to the accused person.
Provided further that order under this clause shall be passed within 15 days of completion of investigations.
(8) There shall be a separate wing in Lokpal to deal with complaints against officers or staff of Lokpal.
(9) Lokpal shall take all steps to ensure that all enquiries and investigations on complaints against its own staff and officials are conducted in most transparent and honest manner.