Analysis: Why is Israel unilaterally going to withdraw from Gaza?

[Falcon29]

How am I supposed to post on what he intends to do if I don't also include his narrative.

Putting his narrative down in words does not legitimize it.

When I say that he wants to kill any chance of a sovereign Palestinian state in the future, I am NOT saying that he right in doing so.

Can you at least calm down and re read the posts with a clear mind.

I am not disagreeing with you on that. I also understand why you post his narrative. I also support that. I'm just warning you to take any of his narratives that relate with 'security concerns' with a grain of salt.

If we do give him credibility on that, then he will keep pushing that narrative as an excuse to refuse to commit to the peace process. If the international public believes his notions on security(Which the majority don't, mostly Americans do) then he will adopt that more often.

The sad part is, world leaders are well aware that his notions have no basis. They don't do anything to bring the world forward though.

 

[Dillinger]

I am not disagreeing with you on that. I also understand why you post his narrative. I also support that. I'm just warning you to take any of his narratives that relate with 'security concerns' with a grain of salt.

If we do give him credibility on that, then he will keep pushing that narrative as an excuse to refuse to commit to the peace process. If the international public believes his notions on security(Which the majority don't, mostly Americans do) then he will adopt that more often.

The sad part is, world leaders are well aware that his notions have no basis. They don't do anything to bring the world forward though.

The Americans don't need to believe, that's irrelevant, as long as they see their interests being served its all cool for them. I mean 300+ million in new dollars, they don't seem to mind at all.

Again, I don't buy his narrative, not most of it anyway.

IF Israel is going to be perpetually in "danger" from the very notion of a real Palestinian state then this issue will never be resolved. It is of course nigh impossible that this can be true.

 

[Falcon29]

I didn't say Israel will do that ,i've said they should do that if they want peace,as a good will gesture.

Who should do what? The Palestinians? How much more do they need to do? They did exactly that before Hamas came into existence. They disarmed the PLO. Did the Palestinians get peace? No.

This is the problem, we are trying to tell you the international public to not allow history to repeat itself. We Palestinians have been through this exact scene being replayed before.

The world is allowing Israel's politics to work. Israel will demand the same things, but nobody will demand of the occupying power anything. So even if there are no arms in one portion of Palestine, most are already running out. There will be no results on the ground.

People will be waiting for years or decades, they will begin to get upset again. Israel will advance it's interests. Then a small of group of Palestinians will take up arms. Israel will play the same game again. Until the Palestinians have zero control over their territory. Israel will tell the world 'security' blah blah blah, and say well the Palestinians in the West Bank need to do something with their selves security blah blah(By this they mean be expelled to Jordan, or leave, but what is the reason they would have to leave anyays? Israeli actions on the ground, so it is ethnic cleansing).

.........

And you guys can't see the game yet. I already know how the next thirty years will play out if nobody wakes up to the reality.

 

[C130]

Israel main objective should be taking out these tunnels that are used to cross into Israel and to supply Hamas.

they need to get the average Palenstian on their side.
Hamas gotta go
Israel need to stop building settlements illegally.
U.S needs to invest in Gaza as much as we invest in Israel.

 

[Falcon29]

IF Israel is going to be perpetually in "danger" from the very notion of a real Palestinian state then this issue will never be resolved. It is of course nigh impossible that this can be true.

And they know that, they also know that the international world will believe that. So they will keep adopting that excuse since it benefits them in and advances their illegal interests in Palestinian territory.

Which means one side(the Palestinian) will be completely destroyed/expelled. If the international world doesn't wake up to the reality of this conflict.

Eventually there will be an uprising in the West Bank which will be one of the final stages of Israel's ultimate plan. A few Palestinians will defend their selves with rifles and kill several soldiers. Israel will preach to the world about their 'security', the world will legitimze their actions and condemn a few Palestinians. How dare those few Palestinians resist occupation rightfully.

But, they won't make any mention or won't put any emphasis on the military/civilian occupation that has been ongoing on in the West Bank or the state sponsored violence there that is the ultimate reason why there would be any resistance.

.........

In the end, the world will give them what they want. They will keep using the security pretext. Eventually they may apply it to neighboring nations. Why not!? If the world keeps following through with that!

Israel main objective should be taking out these tunnels that are used to cross into Israel and to supply Hamas.

After I explain in this thead over and over again that this isn't about security you repeat Israeli narratives again.

.......

Here, for the gazillionth time:
Brzezinski: Netanyahu 'making a very serious mistake'

Watch"Fareed Zakaria GPS," Sundays at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET on CNN

Fareed speaks with former U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski about Israel's military operation in Gaza.

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu on CNN told Wolf Blitzer that the invasion of Gaza was a strategy to demilitarize Gaza, explaining the use of force. But it has been quite a robust use of force…Do you think that it is going to succeed, the Israeli strategy?

No, I think he is making a very serious mistake. When Hamas in effect accepted the notion of participation in the Palestinian leadership, it in effect acknowledged the determination of that leadership to seek a peaceful solution with Israel. That was a real option. They should have persisted in that.

Instead Netanyahu launched the campaign of defamation against Hamas, seized on the killing of three innocent Israeli kids to immediately charge Hamas with having done it without any evidence, and has used that to stir up public opinion in Israel in order to justify this attack on Gaza, which is so lethal.

they need to get the average Palenstian on their side.

On their 'side' for what? Israel needs to end it's occupation! There is no 'side' here.

Israel need to stop building settlements illegally.

U.S needs to invest in Gaza as much as we invest in Israel.

Gaza and the West Bank are one. The US doesn't have to invest in Gaza. It should allow for the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state and then invest in Palestine.

 

[Dillinger]

And they know that, they also know that the international world will believe that. So they will keep adopting that excuse since it benefits them in and advances their illegal interests in Palestinian territory.

Which means one side(the Palestinian) will be completely destroyed/expelled. If the international world doesn't wake up to the reality of this conflict.

Eventually there will be an uprising in the West Bank which will be one of the final stages of Israel's ultimate plan. A few Palestinians will defend their selves with rifles and kill several soldiers. Israel will preach to the world about their 'security', the world will legitimze their actions and condemn a few Palestinians. How dare those few Palestinians resist occupation rightfully.

But, they won't make any mention or won't put any emphasis on the military occupation that has been ongoing on in the West Bank or the state sponsored violence there that is the ultimate reason why there would be any resistance.

.........

In the end, the world will give them what they want. They will keep using the security pretext. Eventually they may apply it to neighboring nations. Why not!? If the world keeps following through with that!

Yes, I think eventually the goal is to clear out Gaza first, since Hamas gives them a pretext while the PA is relatively more connected to the international organisations, this (as counter intuitive as it sounds given that Hamas does have a limited capacity to put up armed resistance and fight) makes Hamas and by extension Gaza the softer target. Add to that Al Sisi in Egypt and the willingness of the ME to do nothing beyond aid dollars and statements gives Bibi a good opportunity. He can't do it in one go though, he might argue that he needs greater military presence (as in on the ground and sustained/permanent) within Gaza to ensure his state's "security", thereby paving the way for enabling a future push. Just an opinion of mine, but I think it might bare out.

 

[Falcon29]

Yes, I think eventually the goal is to clear out Gaza first, since Hamas gives them a pretext while the PA is relatively more connected to the international organisations, this (as counter intuitive as it sounds given that Hamas does have a limited capacity to put up armed resistance and fight) makes Hamas and by extension Gaza the softer target. Add to that Al Sisi in Egypt and the willingness of the ME to do nothing beyond aid dollars and statements gives Bibi a good opportunity. He can't do it in one go though, he might argue that he needs greater military presence (as in on the ground and sustained/permanent) within Gaza to ensure his state's "security", thereby paving the way for enabling a future push. Just an opinion of mine, but I think it might bare out.

So you are agreeing that Israel opposes peace and wants more land? And that this attack on Gaza is just a stage in that whole process?

 

[Dillinger]

So you are agreeing that Israel opposes peace and wants more land?

I thought we had established that in the Gaza thread. Its one thing to claim right of self defence and then go about shelling children on a beach just because you spotted some figures on the beach and decided that they must be combatants or legitimate military targets. Similarly, its all well and good for Israel to assert the right to exist as a state and quite another to go about expanding via settlements without any heed to the folks they are displacing.

So yes, the present dispensation in Israel seems to be happy with the status quo being maintained as long as they can expand and/or consolidate settlements with minimal retaliation.

 

[Falcon29]

I thought we had established that in the Gaza thread. Its one thing to claim right of self defence and then go about shelling children on a beach just because you spotted some figures on the beach and decided that they must be combatants or legitimate military targets. Similarly, its all well and good for Israel to assert the right to exist as a state and quite another to go about expanding via settlements without any heed to the folks they are displacing.

So yes, the present dispensation in Israel seems to be happy with the status quo being maintained as long as they can expand and/or consolidate settlements with minimal retaliation.

Please be a little bit more direct about that. Because most people viewing these forums aren't as articulate and intelligent as you are. They only understand direct statements for the most part. Which is why my posts happen to be more direct. Because I am addressing the viewers.

....

Anyways, so do you believe as the US official claimed, that Netanyahu could be leading Israel to isolation?

 

[Superboy]

Why not have a 2 states solution? Like how America and Canada are 2 states considering how Americans and Canadians can't seem to stand each other.

 

[Dillinger]

Please be a little bit more direct about that. Because most people viewing these forums aren't as articulate and intelligent as you are. They only understand direct statements for the most part. Which is why my posts happen to be more direct. Because I am addressing the viewers.

....

Anyways, so do you believe as the US official claimed, that Netanyahu could be leading Israel to isolation?

Of course he is, even the Americans are not on board with the settlements, they know full well that it adds a monumental amount of anger to the Palestinian psyche, right or wrong, extremist or moderate, I am VERY unlikely to take the prospect of forced eviction and the destruction of my livelihood lightly leave alone the deaths of children.

The thing people need to do is get out of the conspiracy theories, Israel does not own America, the US is the senior partner in this relationship despite the extraordinary leeway they provide Israel (getting away with killing their sailors). The political dispensation in America sees Israel as the ultimate strategic asset in the region, that's all there is to it, nothing else. And so they will continue to support it in a bipartisan manner. Its not some sinister "elders of Zion" plot, its the fact that the US is willing to do whatever it takes to secure what it VIEWS to be its interest.

For any reasonable effect, Palestinians and their supporters need to engage the US on the above terms and explain how this unqualified support might actually harm their interests, but for that regional unity is required AND THAT IS RATHER UNLIKELY. The real issue is that those who hold power in the region will never press the US to revisit its definition of "promoting its interests", oh they might lobby to ensure that they have the same weapons as Israel does so as to ensure parity at the state to state level, but nothing more.

I am sorry to say this but at this point only if the public opinion in Israel itself mounts against rising attrition will this offensive stop, of course by then more children will have had their heads bashed in and blown out.

An utterly surreal and hideous scenario.

 

[Superboy]

Of course, Netanyahu has to tread carefully. Should he decide to genocide Gaza and massacre all 2 million Gazans, the people of the world would isolate Israel even if the US government still supports Israel.

 

[Slav Defence]

This is my personal analysis. First off, let us understand why Israel launched this war on Gaza at this specific time. A former US official explains this:

Brzezinski: Netanyahu 'making a very serious mistake'

Watch"Fareed Zakaria GPS," Sundays at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET on CNN

Fareed speaks with former U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski about Israel's military operation in Gaza.

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu on CNN told Wolf Blitzer that the invasion of Gaza was a strategy to demilitarize Gaza, explaining the use of force. But it has been quite a robust use of force…Do you think that it is going to succeed, the Israeli strategy?

No, I think he is making a very serious mistake. When Hamas in effect accepted the notion of participation in the Palestinian leadership, it in effect acknowledged the determination of that leadership to seek a peaceful solution with Israel. That was a real option. They should have persisted in that.

Instead Netanyahu launched the campaign of defamation against Hamas, seized on the killing of three innocent Israeli kids to immediately charge Hamas with having done it without any evidence, and has used that to stir up public opinion in Israel in order to justify this attack on Gaza, which is so lethal.

I think he is isolating Israel. He's endangering its longer-range future. And I think we ought to make it very clear that this is a course of action which we thoroughly disapprove and which we do not support and which may compel us and the rest of the international community to take some steps of legitimizing Palestinian aspirations perhaps in the U.N.

.............................

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Now we get to a point were delegations were supposed to meet in Cairo to discuss a truce. However, some Palestinian officials were denied entry. But, more importantly, Israel claimed that Hamas captured an Israeli soldier inside Palestinian territory.

Hamas says that isn't true. The Palestinians also make no mention of this incident except when Israeli media brought it up. Hamas says this 'attack' happened 6:30 AM and was targeting Israeli forces inside Gaza. However, none were captured. Eventually, low rank Israeli soldiers(Mysteriously since this is against army policy) began leaking to mainstream media that there is a soldier missing.

Hamas says Israel launched an offensive into Rafah during the cease fire and took advantage of it to occupy neighborhoods in Rafah. Which goes against the cease fire, before it Israel had no presence in Rafah which is a crucial city. This led to a gunfight with heavy Israeli losses but losses weren't published. There is a gag order. What did Israel do? It tried advancing and began indiscriminately bombing the whole area killing 120 civilians at least and injuring thousands others.

....

Remember, this was similar to the 'Shujiyah' Israeli attack, Israel attacked to attempt advancing on the ground. There was no missing soldier. But, the same results in Rafah. Meaning these heavy casulties are due to Israel trying to advance by bombing civilians and NOT due to any missing soldier.

.......

Israel has now fooled the world into their narrative. When I just proved to you all how sketchy this narrative is. Now, it is using it as an excuse to not send delegations to Cairo. It is unilaterally going to withdraw.

What does this mean?

It means that Israel will withdraw ground forces. It will keep attacking from the air and reserve the 'right' to attack from air following this period. It also means, no truce will be negotiated. This way, Israel can avoid international pressure and internationally mediated negotiations to remove the illegal siege which has crippled Gaza for all these years.

So Israel will ignore the international community and say nothing will be discussed. Over a period of at least 3-5 years it will allow limited construction material over an arranged process to make sure Gaza is only focused on rebuilding some of the destruction caused and not on life, or education, or well being of 2 million citizens. The siege will go on.

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So for those who keep feeding into Israels narrative. Stop now, they are using security as the talking point but the goal here is submission. They can exonerate themselves all they want from responsibility of any situation they cause. They are self centrists. We can't change that. But, don't give more credibility to their narrative.

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@ResurgentIran @Serpentine @Developereo @Slav Defence @blain2 @Fulcrum15 @Luftwaffe @usernameless @Kaan @C130 @Jaanbaz @qamar1990 @nangyale @al-Hasani

One word: Palestinian genocide
@Aeronaut we should have it for title cover.

 

[Falcon29]

Updated death toll: Gaza Ministry of Health

-1,712 Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks
-398 of them children
-207 women
-74 elders

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-9.080 Palestinians injured in Israeli attacks
-2,744 children
-1,750 women
-343 elders

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[Dillinger]

Updated death toll: Gaza Ministry of Health

-1,712 Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks
-398 of them children
-207 women
-74 elders

..................

-9.080 Palestinians injured in Israeli attacks
-2,744 children
-1,750 women
-343 elders

......................

Is there no way of getting the children out? Why isn't Egypt at least allowing the children and women to flee into their territory, surely the Arabs can provide enough funds to setup appropriate camps, this is disregarding any bellyaching of how refugees drain resources etc.