An interview with Hafiz Saeed - August 24, 2012

[foxbat]

We are two different people and that is how we should remain.

Inshah Allah..

 

[Ticker]

Of course, I as an Indian accept Jinnah as an Indian leader for as long as he fought for Indian independence.

And when he fought for an independent Muslims country?

You are deluding ur self on the name of land u got...
your origin belongs to smthing else

What does my origin belong to Paan Singh Ji?

Please elaborate.

 

[Jackdaws]

And when he fought for an independent Muslims country?

Of course, I don't accept him as an Indian leader in that avatar of his. I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot - you too would accept Mujibur Rehman as a Pakistani leader till he declared independence of Bangladesh. After all, he was the true elected PM-designate of the whole of Pakistan.

 

[Rafi]

The fact is our civilization is unique, we represent this beautiful, fertile land that has existed for thousands of years. Let the indians enjoy the Ganges based civilization which is theirs.

 

[Arav_Rana]

Well i watched his video and i am a bit confused . here hafiz is trying to blame other countries for pakistan mess. and what he is trying to teach people.. Hate israel, hate U.S.A , hate India and rest countries that you people know better.

But just think how can that guy defend those people who can not afford 1 good pair of shoe but can afford heavy guns and rocket launcher ??
Every country has it's own mess, and you can not overcome in some year only. India is behind baluchistan, USA behind this, India behind this, this this.. Why you people trying to defend like that ? this is the ans to common people of pakistan ?

Just listen the anchorman point. Hafiz is saying that i am 100% agree but this is because of others.

It's like " i am thief, i am killer, i don't care about law, i carry heavy gun,rockets bomb,i'll kill people every where in pakistan, i ll kill people as shia-sunni,i am suicide bomber, i ll blow common people, i ll not do anything good, i'll cheat with my own country people, does not matter i am common man or what, i'll not give a **** to anybody " but this is not my mistake i am like this because of other countries are behind this..and yeah even if i lost my goat, USA/RAW stole my goat.

How can you say that other countries behind everything.. do you thing India have time for this **** ?? We even have own mess .

and some people also brought Hindu etc etc stuufs here.. wow that's great..
Trust me bro religion is most shity thing that human invented.. and If there is any God, he ll not give a **** to anybody religion, and if God cares about religion, then He is not God, so you don't need to worry about Him ..

 

[Ticker]

Can anyone get an attachment to videos on "Murder of History in Pakistan"
discussed by Mr Najam Sethi from Youtube

There has been few books also written of this topic .

Let me quote from an article written on Indian text Books before you guys start saying that our text books are clean from communal and religious bigotry.
_____________________________________________

Indian Text Books Raise Communal Hatred

An article written in 2004
Narratives of Religious Nationalism in Text Books « Indology Research Blog

while the communal interpretation of history was delegitimised at the research and college levels by the sheer weight of secular scholarship in mainstream historical writing, it continued to find articulation in school textbooks, right through the years when the Congress was in power, and exert control over the process of education. Most history textbooks, for example, uncritically accepted the periodisation of history, popularised by imperialist historians, into the Hindu, Muslim and British periods. Hindu rulers were projected as having been tolerant and enlightened; Muslim rulers as bigoted and as the persecutors of Hindus. Another common bias, which flew in the face of all evidence, was that the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India.

The first clutch of biases mentioned in the report pertain to the identification of the outsider, or the foreigner, very early in Indian history, and the resistance to them shown by the people of India (obviously Hindus). Thus, the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India, they built the Harappan civilisation, and the achievements of ancient Indian civilisation surpassed all others. (For example, in High School Itihas Bhag 1, one of the sentences changed reads thus: "With the finds of bones of horses, their toys and yagna altars, scholars are beginning to believe that the people of the Harappa and Vedic civilisations were the same," page 43.) There is, of course, no historical basis for this.

the report notes that it is "meant to ignore and to denigrate the cultural development during the medieval period as something un- or anti-Indian, the entire medieval period, in any case, being a period of foreign rule and, hence of struggle for national independence." India's freedom struggle began 2,500 years ago, the textbooks assert, and this "national resistance" had been neglected in history textbooks because of a "Western conspiracy". Those figures in Indian history who fought for their own kingdoms become, in textbooks, fighters for national liberation.

The NCERT report makes the point that the books that were being used before 1992 were also communally biased and factually incorrect. But the changes made in 1992 gave them a "blatantly communal orientation". The period of medieval Indian history, in particular, "abounds in historical falsehoods", says the report, giving several examples from the revised textbooks. (An example of material added in High School Itihas Bhag 1: "The Indian society during the Sultanate period was divided into two main classes - ruling or Muslim class and ruled or non-Muslims of whom Hindus were the majority" (page 281). Or: "Hindu was merely the payer of taxes. In spite of being conquered in the political field, Hindus did not lose courage. To regain their lost independence, they went on raising their voice from time to time.

Children, regardless of their religious background, have to recite the Saraswathi Vandana in the mornings and the Bhojan Mantra before their afternoon meal. Muslim children are often asked to lead the prayers. There are punishments meted out for not praying.

"A separate section entitled 'Connected Account of Muslim Politics from 1920-34' is provided in Class X history book. This is likely to promote a presentation that would treat Muslims as a distinct, homogeneous entity with a distinctively separate role from that of the nationalist movement. It is not even called 'Muslim Communal Politics'. This will encourage the tendency of singling Muslim communalism and ignoring Hindu communalism and other tendencies."

After the May nuclear explosions at Pokhran, school textbooks have been revised to justify the blasts as well as serve the function of indoctrination on the benefits that have allegedly flowed from the event.

Writings of RSS ideologues on subjects ranging from matters of science to ruminations over the loss of the Sindhu (Indus) river to the "other side" have been given substantial importance in school texts.

Tarun Vijay laments over the loss of the Indus and wonders why it does not flow in Bharat like the other rivers.

The 20-page section highlights his belief in "Akhand Bharat" which was all for dissolving the 1947 Partition

"Students carry forward a set of communal biases until the post-graduate stage.

He said that in a Class XI textbook on political parties in India a section on the Akali Dal had recently been modified substantially. Earlier the party had been projected in a poor light, giving it an anti-national image, but after it entered into an alliance with the BJP appropriate deletions were made.

 

[Rafi]

Let me quote from an article written on Indian text Books before you guys start saying that our text books are clean from communal and religious bigotry.
_____________________________________________

Indian Text Books Raise Communal Hatred

An article written in 2004
Narratives of Religious Nationalism in Text Books « Indology Research Blog

while the communal interpretation of history was delegitimised at the research and college levels by the sheer weight of secular scholarship in mainstream historical writing, it continued to find articulation in school textbooks, right through the years when the Congress was in power, and exert control over the process of education. Most history textbooks, for example, uncritically accepted the periodisation of history, popularised by imperialist historians, into the Hindu, Muslim and British periods. Hindu rulers were projected as having been tolerant and enlightened; Muslim rulers as bigoted and as the persecutors of Hindus. Another common bias, which flew in the face of all evidence, was that the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India.

The first clutch of biases mentioned in the report pertain to the identification of the outsider, or the foreigner, very early in Indian history, and the resistance to them shown by the people of India (obviously Hindus). Thus, the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India, they built the Harappan civilisation, and the achievements of ancient Indian civilisation surpassed all others. (For example, in High School Itihas Bhag 1, one of the sentences changed reads thus: "With the finds of bones of horses, their toys and yagna altars, scholars are beginning to believe that the people of the Harappa and Vedic civilisations were the same," page 43.) There is, of course, no historical basis for this.

the report notes that it is "meant to ignore and to denigrate the cultural development during the medieval period as something un- or anti-Indian, the entire medieval period, in any case, being a period of foreign rule and, hence of struggle for national independence." India's freedom struggle began 2,500 years ago, the textbooks assert, and this "national resistance" had been neglected in history textbooks because of a "Western conspiracy". Those figures in Indian history who fought for their own kingdoms become, in textbooks, fighters for national liberation.

The NCERT report makes the point that the books that were being used before 1992 were also communally biased and factually incorrect. But the changes made in 1992 gave them a "blatantly communal orientation". The period of medieval Indian history, in particular, "abounds in historical falsehoods", says the report, giving several examples from the revised textbooks. (An example of material added in High School Itihas Bhag 1: "The Indian society during the Sultanate period was divided into two main classes - ruling or Muslim class and ruled or non-Muslims of whom Hindus were the majority" (page 281). Or: "Hindu was merely the payer of taxes. In spite of being conquered in the political field, Hindus did not lose courage. To regain their lost independence, they went on raising their voice from time to time.

Children, regardless of their religious background, have to recite the Saraswathi Vandana in the mornings and the Bhojan Mantra before their afternoon meal. Muslim children are often asked to lead the prayers. There are punishments meted out for not praying.

"A separate section entitled 'Connected Account of Muslim Politics from 1920-34' is provided in Class X history book. This is likely to promote a presentation that would treat Muslims as a distinct, homogeneous entity with a distinctively separate role from that of the nationalist movement. It is not even called 'Muslim Communal Politics'. This will encourage the tendency of singling Muslim communalism and ignoring Hindu communalism and other tendencies."

After the May nuclear explosions at Pokhran, school textbooks have been revised to justify the blasts as well as serve the function of indoctrination on the benefits that have allegedly flowed from the event.

Writings of RSS ideologues on subjects ranging from matters of science to ruminations over the loss of the Sindhu (Indus) river to the "other side" have been given substantial importance in school texts.

Tarun Vijay laments over the loss of the Indus and wonders why it does not flow in Bharat like the other rivers.

The 20-page section highlights his belief in "Akhand Bharat" which was all for dissolving the 1947 Partition

"Students carry forward a set of communal biases until the post-graduate stage.

He said that in a Class XI textbook on political parties in India a section on the Akali Dal had recently been modified substantially. Earlier the party had been projected in a poor light, giving it an anti-national image, but after it entered into an alliance with the BJP appropriate deletions were made.

You smashed it bro,

 

[Ticker]

Of course, I don't accept him as an Indian leader in that avatar of his. I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot - you too would accept Mujibur Rehman as a Pakistani leader till he declared independence of Bangladesh. After all, he was the true elected PM-designate of the whole of Pakistan.

As far as Mujibur Rehman was concerned, I accept him as a leader of our people and respect him for being a leader of his people even after the creation of Bangladesh.

Creation of Pakistan was a totally different aspect.

When you can not accept Jinnah as a leader when he sought Pakistan, how do you expect me to accept Bhagat Singh as my leader or my hero when he was only seeking India's independence and not Pakistan's.

 

[sanddy]

Let me quote from an article written on Indian text Books before you guys start saying that our text books are clean from communal and religious bigotry.

Do you have any relaible Source or just copy pasting from any one page blog ???

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

What US do is and believe is that human rights taken away from suspected people is worth as long as it avoids any future attacks, which may result in death of more innocent lives. What will you choose, a person with no rights, or many people with their life taken away, and what about the relatives of those victims, what about all these peoples' rights.

Well if terrorism is killing of innocent civilians then why you indians don't consider BUSH as terrorist? I am sure you know the number of innocent peoples killed in his illegal invasion on Iraq.

Secondly i don't mind whatever views you or Indians have towards hafiz saeed as its your right to have opinion(right or wrong) . May be Hafiz also have reasons to show his negativity towards India as his family also lost 36 of its members during migration from Shimla to Lahore at the time of partition

 

[Ticker]

Do you have any relaible Source or just copy pasting from any one page blog ???

Please read from this link. I can bring in many more.

Narratives of Religious Nationalism in Text Books « Indology Research Blog

The quotes I posted above are with pretty specific references.

 

[Arav_Rana]

Let me quote from an article written on Indian text Books before you guys start saying that our text books are clean from communal and religious bigotry.
..... blh blah

Wow great stuffs.. So you following some wordpress type free blogs and after reading them you think that you know about Indian education system.. cool great work..
Have you ever been In rss school " vidya mandir" . have you ever study NCERT book ??

They never take class or lecture on religion as this blog claimed but yeah if you ll not do home work, or don't score well, or bunk school, they ll beat you .. and 1 more thing many student from these school clear IIT like exam directly.
and about NCERT . dude they have very good standard specially in science and English.

So i know people here wanna do troll and show patriotism in every thing but please don't claim such stupid things . Please don't follow such stupid blogs. give some reliable source only

We accept that your education system is 1 of best. kisi Indian ne kuch kaha ho to sorry . Ok ji. now happy bhai ?

 

[Ticker]

Wow great stuffs.. So you following some wordpress type free blogs and after reading them you think that you know about Indian education system.. cool great work..
Have you ever been In rss school " vidya mandir" . have you ever study NCERT book ??

They never take class or lecture on religion as this blog claimed but yeah if you ll not do home work, or don't score well, or bunk school, they ll beat you .. and 1 more thing many student from these school clear IIT like exam directly.
and about NCERT . dude they have very good standard specially in science and English.

So i know people here wanna do troll and show patriotism in every thing but please don't claim such stupid things . Please don't follow such stupid blogs. give some reliable source only

We accept that your education system is 1 of best. kisi Indian ne kuch kaha ho to sorry . Ok ji. now happy bhai ?

This is the actual NCERT report, published at the same web site. I have other linkages as well and I can post them, but later. You can read this report instead of trolling.

For your information, only 3% of the schools use NCERT produced text books.

NCERT note to School Teachers

The Advisory prepared for India’s National Council for Education Research and Training (NCERT) on how teachers could teach using the pre-2000 and the existing textbooks, which are flawed and biased, and endeavour to work towards more child friendly books in future. [August 2004]

NCERT note to School Teachers « Indology Research Blog

 

[niaz]

I think you both have a very weak memory or are just simply ignoring the bigger picture here.

19 alleged hijackers of 9/11........none of these were Pakistanis........6 were found to be alive and well in the Middle East, many many unanswered questions about the Mossad Agents arrested with explosives, yet released, no evidence presented of AQ involvement as promised by Tony BLAIR to his own population, or by Bush/Musharaf........

There was no TTP before this time. The TTP only emerged after years of bombing carried out by Pakistani Forces, on the instructions of the US of tribal areas. It took many years for the TTP and the likes to appear and only after the men were killed in extra judicial killings, and Pakistani jets dropped bombs blowing up villages, killing their children and women.

So please, lets not show ourselves in a clean slate........ PA is very much responsible for the aggrieved and angered tribesmen in the NWFP. Only now that bombing are reaching the whole of Pakistan and that the war has been bought closer to our homes, now it has become a problem and all blame should lay with these tribesmen........ You should see what the PA had done to the Mehsood tribe among many....80% of them dont have a home....... hence please dont close your minds to the blood spilt of our own brothers, it will be these brothers that will come again to fight a common enemy when that time comes as they did with India at the instruction of MA Jinnah and Azad Kashmir..........

In these types of relationships, there is always room left to manoeuvre and a door left open for talks and reconciliation. Otherwise it will throw Pakistan in to a path of utter destruction........

I think most posters have missed the point Babar Ayaz is trying to make.

Taliban existed much before 9/11. You can call them good Taliban if you like as these were only in Afghanistan. However, all the sectarian killers of Laskhar Jhangvi used to run into Afghanistan for support and safe havens. A lot of the Afghan Taliban were in fact Pakistanis. Many studied in Allama Binori Madrasah in Karachi. Please read this news.

Moinuddin Haider's Afghanistan visit likely to fail

You will note SSP Senator Tariq Azam appearing with Maulana Sami ul Haq for Council of Defence of Afghanistan! This is 7 months before 9/11.

Pakistanis were fighting at Kunduz with Mulla Omer's Taliban. All these sectarian parties have now combined under the name of TTP. Simply changes of name, people are the same.

Some members here have even brought up Kushans and thousand years of history to argue their point. The point is not that at all.

Babar Ayaz is trying to say that liberals such as myself believe that Pakistan was not meant for theocracy. Mainly because JU Hind ( Deobandis) as well as JI were dead against creation of Pakistan. Muslim League did not coin the phrase “Pakistan ka matlab kiya, la ilaha il Allah) and almost all Mulsim league leaders were liberal.

However, it is also a fact that Muslim leaders including the Quaid exploited the Hindu/ Muslim religious split; evidenced by Quaid changing his attire into sherwani and cap; thereby creating the impression that Pakistan was going to be an Islamic state. By implication the law should be sharia.

This has caused the crisis of identity on the structure of the state and gave the opportunity to JI and people like Hafiz Saeed to exploit Islam to their benefit.

For example; PPP led gov’t and her allies claim that it is our war whereas JI, JUI, PML-N and PTI claim that it is not our war and we are killing our own people due to US pressure. 40,000 Pakistani killed by TTP are simply ignored or again blamed on the US; as Hafiz Saeed says , US created jihadis (CIA actually did in 1979, including Osama) thus US is responsible. Strange logic but based on fact.

All this creates confusion among the common man. We have not yet decided on what shape state of Pakistan should take? Should Pakistan be a progressive liberal state as the Quais stated in his 11th august 1947 address or should it be an Islamic emirates on the model of Mulla Omer’s Afghanidstan with sharia law based on Wahhabi maslak with no room for non Muslims or anyone that Wahhabis declare as non Muslims.

This is the crisis of identity that Babar Ayaz refers.

 

[ajtr]

Let me quote from an article written on Indian text Books before you guys start saying that our text books are clean from communal and religious bigotry.
_____________________________________________

Indian Text Books Raise Communal Hatred

An article written in 2004
Narratives of Religious Nationalism in Text Books « Indology Research Blog

while the communal interpretation of history was delegitimised at the research and college levels by the sheer weight of secular scholarship in mainstream historical writing, it continued to find articulation in school textbooks, right through the years when the Congress was in power, and exert control over the process of education. Most history textbooks, for example, uncritically accepted the periodisation of history, popularised by imperialist historians, into the Hindu, Muslim and British periods. Hindu rulers were projected as having been tolerant and enlightened; Muslim rulers as bigoted and as the persecutors of Hindus. Another common bias, which flew in the face of all evidence, was that the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India.

The first clutch of biases mentioned in the report pertain to the identification of the outsider, or the foreigner, very early in Indian history, and the resistance to them shown by the people of India (obviously Hindus). Thus, the Aryans were the original inhabitants of India, they built the Harappan civilisation, and the achievements of ancient Indian civilisation surpassed all others. (For example, in High School Itihas Bhag 1, one of the sentences changed reads thus: "With the finds of bones of horses, their toys and yagna altars, scholars are beginning to believe that the people of the Harappa and Vedic civilisations were the same," page 43.) There is, of course, no historical basis for this.

the report notes that it is "meant to ignore and to denigrate the cultural development during the medieval period as something un- or anti-Indian, the entire medieval period, in any case, being a period of foreign rule and, hence of struggle for national independence." India's freedom struggle began 2,500 years ago, the textbooks assert, and this "national resistance" had been neglected in history textbooks because of a "Western conspiracy". Those figures in Indian history who fought for their own kingdoms become, in textbooks, fighters for national liberation.

The NCERT report makes the point that the books that were being used before 1992 were also communally biased and factually incorrect. But the changes made in 1992 gave them a "blatantly communal orientation". The period of medieval Indian history, in particular, "abounds in historical falsehoods", says the report, giving several examples from the revised textbooks. (An example of material added in High School Itihas Bhag 1: "The Indian society during the Sultanate period was divided into two main classes - ruling or Muslim class and ruled or non-Muslims of whom Hindus were the majority" (page 281). Or: "Hindu was merely the payer of taxes. In spite of being conquered in the political field, Hindus did not lose courage. To regain their lost independence, they went on raising their voice from time to time.

Children, regardless of their religious background, have to recite the Saraswathi Vandana in the mornings and the Bhojan Mantra before their afternoon meal. Muslim children are often asked to lead the prayers. There are punishments meted out for not praying.

"A separate section entitled 'Connected Account of Muslim Politics from 1920-34' is provided in Class X history book. This is likely to promote a presentation that would treat Muslims as a distinct, homogeneous entity with a distinctively separate role from that of the nationalist movement. It is not even called 'Muslim Communal Politics'. This will encourage the tendency of singling Muslim communalism and ignoring Hindu communalism and other tendencies."

After the May nuclear explosions at Pokhran, school textbooks have been revised to justify the blasts as well as serve the function of indoctrination on the benefits that have allegedly flowed from the event.

Writings of RSS ideologues on subjects ranging from matters of science to ruminations over the loss of the Sindhu (Indus) river to the "other side" have been given substantial importance in school texts.

Tarun Vijay laments over the loss of the Indus and wonders why it does not flow in Bharat like the other rivers.

The 20-page section highlights his belief in "Akhand Bharat" which was all for dissolving the 1947 Partition

"Students carry forward a set of communal biases until the post-graduate stage.

He said that in a Class XI textbook on political parties in India a section on the Akali Dal had recently been modified substantially. Earlier the party had been projected in a poor light, giving it an anti-national image, but after it entered into an alliance with the BJP appropriate deletions were made.

No wonder 2004 report Arjun singh at helm as HRD minister.Thats why report only goes back till 1992 period.What about 1947-1991?Cant make report on that coz it opens the pandora's box for gandhi-nehru family and congress.But even then books remain same Why.coz they only do lipservice.And what did 1930-47 polictics of india has to do with any other party when it was only congress.they never included this in detail coz it will show nehru in bad light.Even partition and following riots is taught in passing remarks of 2-3 sentences.

We are two different people and that is how we should remain.

kyonji tumhare do haath-pair jada hain jo different ho.....