American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Al Bhatti]

But you have standing orders. You just don't keep on giving out weapons and start firing. Things might change from now on.

Dear Sir,

Standing orders do change as the situation develops, don't they?, so the standing orders have not being changed after the repeated intrusions?.

The starting of a good response would have been with the ambassador asked to leave the country within 3 days for example instead of the Shamsi based being asked to be vacated in 15 days (a base which is non-relevant to US as they surely have other bases to operate from inside Pakistan from where the politicians and generals are earning money by "renting" them out) followed by a statement for permanent closure of their supply lines in air and on land

But as you said things are changing and also an US official fears that ISI might give it's reply at a timing of it's own choosing (if ever that reply occurs) will it happen after the the usual repeat of the action on the western border takes place?

 

[Sugarcane]

Guys I am not for one moment suggesting that we do nothing. However we can not afford to have open warfare with america without hundreds of thousands of deaths. We can close the supply routes. Ironically the fuel for those helicopters probably came through pakistan. In my earlier posts I quoted americans stating that they expect that ISI will take action and they expect this to come back and bite them in the ***.

I regard american govt as pakistans enemy. They have been demonising PA and ISI for the last 12 months. You have to agree with me western press has been attacking PA and ISI to the nth degree. So if my enemy hates something in my country it means that something is not as compliant as it may seem. For gods sake they want us to hate our army cant you guys see that

Why - PA can give response kill at-least equal number of bastards and admit that it's blunder and do apology?

 

[JonAsad]

Everything does not go to the jarnail straightaway. It was the company HQ, so the Company Havaldar or the Maj there would have contacted the Unit, which would have contacted the formation, which would have contacted the brigade, which would have contacted the Corp headquarter , and then it goes to the very high level that you are talking about.

Although, I agree, the response might have been slow.

you and i saying the same thing- blame the different-
Tell me can i blame india for not improving our command and control system on western side?-

Am i wrong in blaming the army- the airforce- for letting this happen not once but multiple times?-
Am i worng for wanting the army- the airforce to improve its aerial effectiveness on western side?-
how many more soldiers we are willing to sacrifice like this- before any policy change?-
Some body before you defended the Airforce- you defend the generals-
Blaming the aliens will make every one happy- right?-

 

[Jango]

Dear Sir,

Standing orders do change as the situation develops, don't they?, so the standing orders have not being changed after the repeated intrusions?.

The starting of a good response would have been with the ambassador asked to leave the country within 3 days for example instead of the Shamsi based being asked to be vacated in 15 days (a base which is non-relevant to US as they surely have other bases to operate from inside Pakistan from where the politicians and generals are earning money by "renting" them out) followed by a statement for permanent closure of their supply lines in air and sea.

But as you said things are changing and also an US official fears that ISI might give it's reply at a timing of it's own choosing (if ever that reply occurs) will it happen after the the usual repeat of the action on the western border takes place?

Yup, a reply might be in the offing.

But you don't just hand out MANPADS to every platoon after 5 or so incursions. We never had a incident like this before, in which the army suffered this much casualties in this manner. 2-3 jawans were martyred before, it may had been a mistake, but a dastardly attack like this may change things.

 

[lem34]

which are??

closing supply routes permanently is one. ISI gets blamed for helping insurgents anyway. If we are not supporting them start, if we are supporting them increase the support for starters. Coordinate with other countries in our neighbourhood that our interests converge with including China Russia and iran

 

[Jango]

you and i saying the same thing- blame the different-
Tell me can i blame india for not improving our command and control system on western side?-

Am i wrong in blaming the army- the airforce- for letting this happen not once but multiple times?-
Am i worng for wanting the army- the airforce to improve its aerial effectiveness on western side?-
how many more soldiers we are willing to sacrifice like this- before any policy change?-
Some body before you defended the Airforce- you defend the generals-
Blaming the aliens will make every one happy- right?-

The way you are going about it is wrong. Response is slow, the immediate contact time between PAF and PA is long.

 

[JonAsad]

JonAsad stop speculating things....its all BS. I bet none of us know what happened that night...then why write BS when their is no available information?

I am reading what the media is saying- Keep up plz-
The slowness in our response when an attack on our soil is happening- is what i am hinting at-

 

[Sugarcane]

which are??

They have lot of options like

Stop NATO routes for couple of weeks
Register their protest
tell the nation that next time they will think twice for attack and then they will attack etc.

 

[Najam Khan]

Well well-
When the first time an incident of this sort happened- Whose duty/ responsibility was it to make sure this sort of incident never happen again?- Whose responsibly was it to change the SOP's?-
Then OBL happened which showed the weakness on our western side- whose responsibility was it to rectify what went wrong?-

I blame the army- the air force- for not doing what it is meant for-
Or tell me who to blame and drag here?-

In case of WoT, SOPs are related to foreign policy of Pakistan...the NA/APC had too much documented but implementation comes for written orders. After OBL, PAF changed its SOPs, for few months war-time deployments were made.

Any soldier can't fire a bullet (missile launch is even more complex) without orders. Even if a blip is seen on radar, it might have been interpreted as a friendly a/c from NATO/US...who was expecting such full scale, well planned operation against a border post?

However as nuclearpak mentioned, the hierarchy of command makes a delay in delivering information...add 2am time to it as well. Even if PA had contacted NATO/US they have made equal delay in reverting back the attacking aircraft.

 

[Jango]

i must point out that the number of US personnel in pakistan have decreased significantly after OBL.....supply is already stopped and it is unlikely to make any significant impact, especially if the operation was a deliberate one, which i leave to debate.....and i don't think becoming enemy of USA is such a good idea, from where will pakistan the spare parts of its main jet F16???

You don't need to be an enemy, but you don't have to a slave either.

We should stand up for our own rights, stop this damn supply, and then stop this cooperation with those CIA operatives. And they do exist. Just go to Islamabad Airport, Lahore airport, Karachi airport, peshawar airport etc etc. I can tell you where the agent stands at Islamabad airport.

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 PM ----------

In case of WoT, SOPs are related to foreign policy of Pakistan...the NA/APC had too much documented but implementation comes for written orders. After OBL, PAF changed its SOPs, for few months war-time deployments were made.

Any soldier can't fire a bullet (missile launch is even more complex) without orders. Even if a blip is seen on radar, it might have been interpreted as a friendly a/c from NATO/US...who was expecting such full scale, well planned operation against a border post?

However as nuclearpak mentioned, the hierarchy of command makes a delay in delivering information...add 2am time to it as well. Even if PA had contacted NATO/US they have made equal delay in reverting back the attacking aircraft.

SOP was a bit changed but still, shoot first time orders were not given AFAIK.

And according to DG ISPR, NATO was informed half an hour into the attack.

 

[JonAsad]

SOP's don't change overnight.

Did you know what exactly happened at OBl, did you know the route they took? The kind of supporting equipment they had? The kind of helicopters they had? Everything is not as straightforward as it seems.

These sort of incidents have not happened over night Sir-
You want me to scale down the time line of the first incident of this sort to the recent one?-
and the time we had to improve?-
or tell me what did we improve- for a change-

 

[lem34]

Why - PA can give response kill at-least equal number of bastards and admit that it's blunder and do apology?

Nato are saying it was an accident. We need to give them an accident. I agree but not open warfare. I am as emotional about this as any of you especially when you see pictures of pakistani children left as orphans but we must give a meusured response.

 

[slytherin]

You don't need to be an enemy, but you don't have to a slave either.

We should stand up for our own rights, stop this damn supply, and then stop this cooperation with those CIA operatives. And they do exist. Just go to Islamabad Airport, Lahore airport, Karachi airport, peshawar airport etc etc. I can tell you where the agent stands at Islamabad airport.

i don't know airports so i am not in a position to comment but do u think that this will have a significant impact???

it will give US more a reason to attack pakistan, because now they can claim that pakistani government is not supporting them but supporting terrorists.....

 

[Al Bhatti]

JonAsad stop speculating things....its all BS. I bet none of us know what happened that night...then why write BS when their is no available information?

It doesn't take that long if there is even a small heli intruding from the eastern side, or may be it is?

 

[Jango]

These sort of incidents have not happened over night Sir-
You want me to scale down the time line of the first incident of this sort to the recent one?-
and the time we had to improve?-
or tell me what did we improve- for a change-

Yes, we did improve, changes were made, some were left the same. Mistakes were made at some stage, they do happen. But the response by PAF was slow, but it could have been a multitude of reasons. You just have to be familiar with the internal system.