AMCA :: Fifth Generation Fighter Under Development in India

[Firemaster]

Are you saying that Indian engine design is failure? Then how it passed high altitude tests in Russia?

japs showed their interest in kaveri 4 atd/x if kaveri were afaliure they ddnt hv shown interest in it
70- 75 kn thrust is enough for first gas turbine engine developed by any country, it can be more upgraded with advanced materials(specially when drdo has made nickel sctb )

ws10 was not succeeded for a long time bt chinese never went for jv

 

[Firemaster]

What is wrong with you? do you know the meaning of failure? he's not saying it doesn't work. It does. And so it managed to pass the super olympics galactica 50 thousand kilometer high altitude tests. But in the end it did NOT achieve the required thrust. It is NOT powering the LCA. and it FAILED

it settled up some level of expertise & r&d for gas turbine technology for future

 

[Firemaster]

i bet if india start a new engine design for 135kn thrust with lighter materials it will get success in 10 yars

remember gatec funding

 

[jamesbaldwin]

less talk more action.

 

[shaktiman2010]

What is wrong with you? do you know the meaning of failure? he's not saying it doesn't work. It does. And so it managed to pass the super olympics galactica 50 thousand kilometer high altitude tests. But in the end it did NOT achieve the required thrust. It is NOT powering the LCA. and it FAILED

I don't understand you.

Kaveri had successful flight test in Russia and it has proven its design. Then, how its a failure?

And thrust is matter of scaling. IAF didn't select it for LCA because they decided not to wait for completion of flight tests and development iterations which are done after test data is out. It was an administrative decision.

As I said, aero-engine R&D is not one-shot thing. It requires iterative development. GE never made F-16's engine in one go. They built low thrust variants first and went up slowly. This is the same path GTRE is taking.

Here the only issue is, IAF is not ready to wait that much, so they decided to go ahead with Snecma option. But one sensible thing they did is, they asked GTRE to join Snecma and pull into some components and knowledge from Kaveri programme. It will lower costs too since those parts will be Indian-made & will be cheaper on maintenance, part supplies in future.

So, now GTRE is running two programmes in parallel. The original mother engine K-9(under flight tests in Russia) and K-10(with inputs from K-9).

 

[shaktiman2010]

Delay in aero-engine development sphere is a common phenomenon. GE never produced their first cryogenic engine on time. It slipped schedule dozen times. But that doesn't mean they "failed". It only means that it was "under-development".

That's what Kaveri is. Its under development phase now.

Kaveri can be called as "failure" only when the GoI stops the flight testing in Russia, closes the project and asks IAF to goto Snecma. But that's not the case here. Instead, GoI has asked GTRE to go ahead with flight testing of Indian version of Kaveri in Russia, which proves that Indian aero-engine in still on track and not a failure.

People here are jumping onto GTRE and calling Kaveri aero-engine as failure just to satisfy their own frustration of delayed MRCA, LCA or whatever & prove their own points. LOL!

 

[shaktiman2010]

Unfortunately, IAF lacks strategic foresight and long-term planning. They lack patience. They should learn something from American airforce who was patient even when GE's engines were failing in initial testings even with full funding support and Russia was much ahead. But they kept cool and showed maturity and full support to American engineers and talent.

Its sad that such support and faith can't be expected from fools in Indian airforce and Army. They prefer going for imports than standing behind their own Indian engineers and facing the hard times together.

But with antony, things are improving and he is doing right thing by going slow on MRCA.

 

[faithfulguy]

Thrust is a criteria set by IAF for engine they want in LCA. Its not a criteria for engine's flight-performance or its design's robustness.

Kaveri's design has been proven in flight test. That's what counts. So, its stupid to claim that Kaveri is failure.

That depends on what Kaveri is use for. If its just for testing or proven that India can build an engine, than its not a failure. But if its to be a engine for Tejas, than its a failure as the gov had given up on developing it.

 

[acetophenol]

amca is targetted to do the job jaguar is doing nw.

 

[MST]

That depends on what Kaveri is use for. If its just for testing or proven that India can build an engine, than its not a failure. But if its to be a engine for Tejas, than its a failure as the gov had given up on developing it.

The govt has not given up on developing it. Kaveri is just taking more time then planned and LCA can't wait so they are using an existing engine.
Just because its not used in LCA its not a failure. By your definition even the F-18 is a failure since it lost to YF 16 in the USAF evaluations in the Lightweight Fighter competition in the 80s.

 

[faithfulguy]

The govt has not given up on developing it. Kaveri is just taking more time then planned and LCA can't wait so they are using an existing engine.
Just because its not used in LCA its not a failure. By your definition even the F-18 is a failure since it lost to YF 16 in the USAF evaluations in the Lightweight Fighter competition in the 80s.

The bid was a failure. And the reason I call it a failure because the Indian brass had given up on indigenously produce a egine. Also, the engine core will be changed so its pretty much a brand new engine. If Kaveri is not a failed project, I do not know what is.

 

[peaceful]

The bid was a failure. And the reason I call it a failure because the Indian brass had given up on indigenously produce a egine. Also, the engine core will be changed so its pretty much a brand new engine. If Kaveri is not a failed project, I do not know what is.

the entire LCA is a failed project.
all major parts are built by foreign companies.

Let's just be honest: if india developed the control system on it own, what is the testbed aircraft? there is no such testbed in india because the system was developed by a foreign firm and then tested on a foreign testbed.

now let's look at other parts: which indian company builts processor used in its control computer? I don't aware any indian company is capable of doing this. how about radar? missiles? the seeker of the missile?

I am looking for answers, not excuses. please just name the company/organization which did it. simple and plain.

 

[peaceful]

japs showed their interest in kaveri 4 atd/x if kaveri were afaliure they ddnt hv shown interest in it
70- 75 kn thrust is enough for first gas turbine engine developed by any country, it can be more upgraded with advanced materials(specially when drdo has made nickel sctb )

ws10 was not succeeded for a long time bt chinese never went for jv

we have WS10A already in active service. over 100 built and in service with PLAAF.
nowadays on our forums, we don't even discuss WS10A, we are more interested in WS15.

nice typical indian troll, but lacks basic facts.

 

[justanobserver]

deleted...............

 

[peaceful]

i bet if india start a new engine design for 135kn thrust with lighter materials it will get success in 10 yars

remember gatec funding

135kn engine is already out of date. if you are going to get one in 10 years, then why bother doing it?

btw, it is never about the design itself, you don't have the industrial and R&D foundation to carry out project like that. e.g. what is your spending on material science? does your industrial capable of building one even when the blueprint is ready?

don't be too naive. project like this is only viable for countries like US/RU/EU/China.