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Ambala to station first squadron of MMRCA fighters

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Stop using all your tactics in your bag so that you can wriggle your way outta this.

Talk to the point instead.

Which still remains that both J-10 A and B are flying so logically FC-20 has flown because it will be still the same aircraft with some specific customization over either of them ... Twist it , but it will not change the facts ! :)
 
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Which still remains that both J-10 A and B are flying so logically FC-20 has flown because it will be still the same aircraft with some specific customization over either of them ... Twist it , but it will not change the facts ! :)

:)

Logically its flying. But factually it isn't.

I love members like you who never give up eventhough they lost all points.

FC-20 has not flown. Why should China fly FC-20 when Pakistan is yet to transfer
the funds for any of them? Mind you that only PAF will operate the FC-20 version,
hence all cost will have to be borne by PAF only.

I don't say the MKI has "logically flown" just because Russia has made a Su-30MK
for itself.
 
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1: Your air launched cruise missiles have a range less than 350km. And your land based cruise missiles have a range of only around 700km. So you cannot hit anywhere. Ballistic missiles are only used for a nuclear payload because they have a high CEP compared to cruise missiles(actually even cruise missiles have a slightly big CEP but when compared to ballistic missiles it's much better). You cannot use ballistic missile to hit pin point targets. Also those cruise missiles carry warheads ranging from 200kgs to 500kgs only. You won't be able to penetrate hardened shelters with just such a low payload, so you have to use several missiles for just a single hardened shelter, provided it hits the target with pin point accuracy. If it even misses it's hardened shelter target by even 5m, your multi million dollar missile is wasted.

2: Beidou is only operational within China. It is still not made available outside, yet.

3: We have been hearing this Block-2 since 2 years ago. Face it, you guys haven't requested for engines for the next 50 block-2 JFTs because you cant pay for it. How can you manufacture Block-2 without engines?

4: I accept this, except for the fact it will be much difficult for PAF to take out Indian ground based early warning sites rather than vice versa, because of my point 2 in the previous post. Plus they are heavily fortified with SAM we just procured from Israel.

5: I accept. But then your relations with the U.S would go downhill pretty fast. And who knows, maybe they will even share their tracking data with us. If you don't follow their rules, they play dirty. You already know that they have done underhanded things before, and they will do that again.

6: Yup, they still haven't achieved BVR capability. It is still in testing with dummies carried around. If they did fire off one, then chinese sponsored state media would showcase it as a huge event like they did when JFT fired the short range Air-Air missile. No Band Baja has happened for it.

7: This FC-20 is something we have been hearing from 2005 from Musharraf times. As old as the Indian MMRCA saga. Atleast MMRCA is an open tender with lots of jets competing, but this FC-20 is just one jet which is to be procured. What is taking so long? Answer: You are broke!

8: There are also unconfirmed uncle aunty sources which reports of ICBMs in Pakitans arsenal. Which unconfirmed uncle aunty sources shall we believe? It's better we don't believe any of them - this goes for both india and pak.

9: See point 3.

10: Yes, PLAAF never made any promises, but PAF took a calculated risk. During the initial years after JFTs first flight there were reports after reports in pakistani press of PLAAF interested in JFT and would order 300-400 jets. PAF assumed PLAAF would replace their thousands of J-6 and J-7s with JF-17, but they massively underestimated China's growing economy and PLAAFs resolve. They are going with J-10 and Sukhoi copies through and through eventhough they are costlier. No JFTs for PLAAF. And so no Chinese state funding for JF-17s weapon integration, Trainer version, Block-2 upgrades and so on. You have to pay through the nose for all that.

1) Reported range of 350 km which is enough to take out all your forward bases ... Babur is another story and we have other fine missiles in the inventory so as I say it goes both ways and doesn't depend on strategic depth as you said ... You are again assuming something along the lines of 1 missile / base or something when the strategy is to fire a salvo ! I think we can use ballistic missiles in your case , since you are not that far away and our guidance systems are pretty good ...

2) Why not research , dear ? There's a thread in the Pakistan Strategic Forces section which can enlighten you that Pakistan has signed deal with China for usage of both civilian and military grade Beidou ...

3) Yes , you have been ... Provide me a source for the engine part ... The third squadron is to be raised earlier next year and who knows it will be a Block-2 ...

4) I accept but PAF too has better force multipliers to tackle that situation ... We operate almost 8 AWACS , an overkill for the border with India that we need to defend ... So cant they warn of impending danger ?

5) Guesses need not be answered ... " Maybe they will provide data " as you say ... Tell me when they do ...

6) Ignorance is bliss for you guys ! JFT has confirmed integration of MAR-1 and you are talking about BVR capability - height of ignorance ! Why do not you just visit the JFT info pool in this very forum and enlighten yourself ? :azn: Maybe , find a photo of JFT when it last participated in an Farnborough air show and activate your grey matter ...

7) Yes , but didn't I already tell you that Pakistani defense purchases aren't made in the same manner as yours ? Rest assured , the FC -20 will be up guarding our skies when you get the delivery of first aircraft which I must remind you that the deal hasn't been signed yet ...

8) Believe what you want to believe :)

10) I just told you ... Yes , PLAAF was interested in the JFT and Pakistani media was reporting that but to say that PAF bought JFT assuming just that the PLAAF would follow suit is absurd ... Pakistan pursued the project for its own aims and the main objective of the programme was to kick start our aeronautics industry and replacement of third Gen aircrafts in the inventory and it has been successful thus far ... I fail to understand what further weapons need be integrated ? Post this question in the JFT thread and you can get a response ...

:)

Logically its flying. But factually it isn't.

Agreed ... The operational J-10 fact should have done the trick for you instead of arguing needlessly when I said that it is flying ...
 
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@ Secur

You are supposed to be a what? A Senior Member? then your posts must also
have some Senior opinions and knowledge in them.

MAR-1 is an Air-to-Ground anti-radiation missile deisgned for use against
enemy ground-based radar stations. It is not an Air-to-Air weapon.

MAR-1 | Wikipedia.org

BVRAAM = Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missiles. not standoff range A2G weapon.

JFT's BVR capability will come only when the SD-10A/B missiles are implemented,
test-fired and certified for use and then inducted. Thats years away.

"height of ignorance" ha!:rofl:

and secondly, its but futile to ask other members to "reserach" information
pools etc. in a forum. No one around is an any mood to go through a 1000 pages of
forum to find out a single piece of info he needs. When you have a point, prove it
here and now with a link/source.

Most part of the information pools is full of speculative stuff with no real evidence
to back up claims.
 
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Agreed ... The operational J-10 fact should have done the trick for you instead of arguing needlessly when I said that it is flying ...

But operational J-10 is only for PLAAF.
 
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^

Oh Please ! I am well aware that MAR-1 is an anti radiation missile ... My point was that PAF would integrate existing BVR missile SD-10 first obviously before going to Brazilians to buy a new one ... and there are credible reports that it has already been done ... Just because a member is showing that he's not updated on the matter doesn't mean that even you should ! :azn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
MAA-1 Piranha (Short-range) [139]
AIM-9L/M (Short-range)
PL-5E (Short-range)
PL-9C (Short-range)
PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range)
Air-to-surface missiles:
MAR-1 (Anti-radiation missile)[96]
C-802A (Anti-ship missile)[75]
C-803 (Anti-ship missile)
Ra'ad ALCM (Nuclear capable Stealth Cruise missile)[140]
Bombs:
Unguided bombs:
Mk-82 (general purpose bomb)
Mk-84 (general purpose bomb)
Matra Durandal (anti-runway bomb)
CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye (anti-armour cluster bomb)
Precision guided munitions (PGM):
GBU-10 (laser-guided bombs)
GBU-12 (laser-guided bombs)
LT-2 (laser-guided bombs)
H-2 (electro-optically guided)
H-4 (electro-optically guided),[3]


JF-17 Thunder (SD-10/PL-12 BVR test + Kamra avionics factory) - YouTube
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w9NIsfbeN...ple%27s+Liberation+Army+ariforce++%281%29.jpg

And stop your obsession with seniority :rofl:

Bull **** ... The JFT info pool is a comprehensive listing of the developments , timelines and technologies of the aircraft ... Besides , If one makes a claim then he should get ready to back it up :azn: ...

But operational J-10 is only for PLAAF.

For now ... When did I ever say otherwise ? :azn:

You needed not to waste time to defend your false claim when it was illogical as you admitted yourself ...
 
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^

Oh Please ! I am well aware that MAR-1 is an anti radiation missile ... My point was that PAF would integrate existing BVR missile SD-10 first obviously before going to Brazilians to buy a new one ... and there are credible reports that it has already been done ... Just because a member is showing that he's not updated on the matter doesn't mean that even you shouldn't ! :azn:

And stop your obsession with seniority :rofl:

First of all, stop raising your eyebrows all over the place like that.

Yeah PAF "would" integrate SD-10. But lemme clarify something to you man,
when you are talking about BVR capability talk only about SD-10, I fcuking just
can't figure why on earth you quoted MAR-1. Don't worry I know that you
who kept swimming in the info pool for hours were fed with all the false info
and ended up quoting MAR-1 as a BVRAAM.

1) PAF still has not inducted a single SD-10 missile

2) IAF MiG-21s have BVR capability with R-77 Adder missile

3) Until SD-10 integration is complete, JF-17 remains a WVR-only fighter. And
this process will span years.

For now ... When did I ever say otherwise ? :azn:

You needed not to waste time to defend your false claim when it was illogical as you admitted yourself ...

Im sorry I must set my intelligence level to low now. Which one of mine was a
false claim? That FC-20 has not factually flown?
 
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JFT's BVR capability will come only when the SD-10A/B missiles are implemented, test-fired and certified for use and then inducted. Thats years away.

Already tested, certified and inducted :).

Source: Test Pilot

I will say it again, there is no point of continuing a discussion unless you research more on PAF's capabilities. Start with the Military Aviation section, and work your work through it.
 
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First of all, stop raising your eyebrows all over the place like that.

Yeah PAF "would" integrate SD-10. But lemme clarify something to you man,
when you are talking about BVR capability talk only about SD-10, I fcuking just
can't figure why on earth you quoted MAR-1. Don't worry I know that you
who kept swimming in the info pool for hours were fed with all the false info
and ended up quoting MAR-1 as a BVRAAM.

None of your business ... Remain stuck in the lower post inferiority complex :azn:

Who said " would " ? There are videos and pictures of testing and validation of the PL-12 on the JFT ... I quoted MAR-1 because for obvious reasons PAF / PAC will integrate BVR missiles first which take first priority before going to Brazil to buy an anti radiation missile ... Makes sense ? Next time , learn to read posts in context ...

Where exactly did I call MAR-1 as being BVRAAM ?

Already tested, certified and inducted :).

Source: Test Pilot

I will say it again, there is no point of continuing a discussion unless you research more on PAF's capabilities. Start with the Military Aviation section, and work your work through it.

Denial mode is on for them ! Do not be surprised ... :pakistan:
 
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Ambala was attacked by Pakistanis in both the 1965 & 1971 wars, this is a strategic move as well as being a symbolic one for IAF that the first squadron of the Rafale will be placed there.
 
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Ambala was attacked by Pakistanis in both the 1965 & 1971 wars, this is a strategic move as well as being a symbolic one for IAF that the first squadron of the Rafale will be placed there.

1965 & 1971 was decades ago, they will not cross the borders now with the JFT's. PAF has gone into defensive mode and their doctrine has changed to area denial-ability. Incoming babur could be a threat but then that opens up the window for all birds to fly across.
 
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Already tested, certified and inducted :).

Source: Test Pilot

I will say it again, there is no point of continuing a discussion unless you research more on PAF's capabilities. Start with the Military Aviation section, and work your work through it.

Prove it. And don't show me videos of FC-1 launching C-802.

That missile in the video Secur posted above is way too bulky to be an AAM.

"Inducted"? Post some pics of JF-17 in active PAF service with SD-10 on wing
pylons.

None of your business ... Remain stuck in the lower post inferiority complex :azn:

Who said " would " ? There are videos and pictures of testing and validation of the PL-12 on the JFT ... I quoted MAR-1 because for obvious reasons PAF / PAC will integrate BVR missiles first which take first priority before going to Brazil to buy an anti radiation missile ... Makes sense ? Next time , learn to read posts in context ...

Where exactly did I call MAR-1 as being BVRAAM ?



Denial mode is on for them ! Do not be surprised ... :pakistan:

This post makes less sense than any other.

Why did you include MAR-1 in the section for BVR capability? You thought any
missile with 100km range is BVRAAM? ARM first before BVRAAM? Obvious Reasons?
Go to Brazil? What sh!t are you talking about?
 
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2) Why not research , dear ? There's a thread in the Pakistan Strategic Forces section which can enlighten you that Pakistan has signed deal with China for usage of both civilian and military grade Beidou ...

Secur, don't you think this is going to take time? One, the electronics and software (basically, guidance systems) will need to be changed to take the Beidou signals? Which means only your next line of missiles will be able to make use of this? Also, usage is not as simple as a plug and play. Will it not require more tests before it can be suitable for actual deployment?
 
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Prove it. And don't show me videos of FC-1 launching C-802.

That missile in the video Secur posted above is way too bulky to be an AAM.

"Inducted"? Post some pics of JF-17 in active PAF service with SD-10 on wing
pylons.

I apologize

It appears that you are privy to more information about the JF17 than a JF17 test pilot :). Thus, i take my words back.

If pictures are of so much importance to you, when was the last time you saw a picture of an F16 armed with AIM120-C. PAF does not has a PR department which specializes in keeping the fanboys aware of all her developments. PAF is a secret organization and never reveals any of her capabilities. Whatever capabilities we get to know about is through insiders who are privy to this information. Anyways, as i said before, you need to research more up on PAF before we can start a real conversation. So far all i am reading is fanboy talk.

Secur, don't you think this is going to take time? One, the electronics and software (basically, guidance systems) will need to be changed to take the Beidou signals? Which means only your next line of missiles will be able to make use of this? Also, usage is not as simple as a plug and play. Will it not require more tests before it can be suitable for actual deployment?

Its been more than 4 years since Pakistan has been working on this project. Tweaks have been been worked out and the project is at its final stages for implementation. PA missiles don't use GPS guidance and are not going to be using them in the near future. There are several defects that come with this system with which PA was not comfortable with.
 
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Secur, don't you think this is going to take time? One, the electronics and software (basically, guidance systems) will need to be changed to take the Beidou signals? Which means only your next line of missiles will be able to make use of this? Also, usage is not as simple as a plug and play. Will it not require more tests before it can be suitable for actual deployment?

Of course it is , I am well aware ... The system is slated to become operational only by the end of 2013 when SUPARCO develops the necessary equipments but the deal is signed ! Why only the next line of missiles ? Even existing ones can be modified ...
 
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