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Alternate solution for Pakistan Navy to counter Large Navies ?

Isn't that allocated to the Andaman and Nicobar Command?

Not quite. The Sukhois from this squadron have rotated detachments to A & N. Once deployments in the border areas are completed, then 2 more squadrons may get earmarked for Maritime Air Ops. Apart from that, SAAC has already 2 squadrons of MiG-23/27s. Even they can be pooled in Maritime Air.
 
EzioAltaïr;4101351 said:
Nah, I don't play online. I was trying, but it turns out they shipped my copy of RTW without a CD-key, so I can't play. :D

Yeah. sometimes they do that. especially on torrent sites. Try playing pirates: total war. They give rewards to players without cd key. To promote piracy!
 
Its obvious that in terms of war and to save your nation you dont follow rules u go rebel ... u send dummies, propaganda efforts and now Definitely a nuclear..... UN maybe the barricade to do so but Nation wont listen at that time. And the UN themselves believe that India and pakistan wont hesitate to use it...

You most certainly sent one to this thread (Read czar786)! So is the situation so critical on forum? What is the threshold level of sending dummies on PDF?
 
Yes Thats exactly The Subject this thread is based on THat's what I am trying to say but indian trollers have yet again destroyed the theme of the thread thanks for your reply :)

Hey Memon, I think we all know who started trolling and why...

If you don't read post#4.

That's a disturbing observation... It has happened in so many of threads in PDF. Always only one or two comments at the start. but enough to spark a " SPIRITED" discussion between members of different countries.

e.g.
www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/242562-india-great-power-know-your-own-strength-4.html#post4089510

That may help with increasing the time spent by members on forum (and thus increasing revenues), but it does attract other trolls, and brings down overall quality of discussion.

This is just what I have observed. No offence to anyone.
Thanks.
 
Hi, first time poster. been reading the forum for a while, just want to share some thoughts.

PN already has a counter to large navies in its SSK force. 5 modern SSK running loose will be a major headache even for the biggest navies in the world. Remember how cautious the British were with just one Argentinian sub on the loose during the Falkland War.
Second, Pakistan needs a strong maritime strike aircraft force. This is the classic lateral thinking counter to stronger navies. How many Mirages have maritime strike capabilities? JF-17 with C-802 should be good replacement as the Mirages retire. A good MPA force is of course necessary to support maritime strike. More P-3s hopefully, or Chinese Y-8 MPA as they go into production. Pakistani AWACS should also offer some maritime surveillance capabilities.
The core frigate force of around half a dozen multipurpose frigates is IMO enough. Get any additional Perry if they are available, even though they are old and doesn't have the AAW ability of modern Chinese frigate such 054A, its ASW capability is what's most needed by PN. I don't think PN should go for other old ship such as the Type 42, which doesn't have the ASW capability that PN needs. If technically possible, PN should look into upgrading the F22P with TAS, either Western or Chinese. 054A does have a modern TAS according to some sources, coupled with strong AAW, a couple 054A are useful as the core of several ASW task forces. But PN budget may not allow acquisition of 054A. In that case, maybe Pakistan can get some ASW version 056 corvette outfitted with TAS and full helicopter hanger. Similar to to the Pattani class corvette built for Thailand. But I don't think PN should devote too much resources into large surface combatants. They are expensive to man and maintain, especially the second hand ships, and during wartime, they are not useful against larger navies.
Azmat class missile boats look like very well balanced design. They have the firepower to pose a serious threat to large navies, and are flexible enough to do patrol duty during peacetime. More should be acquired. Perhaps an ASW version, with lighter missile armament, and better sonar with torpedo tube and ASW rockets can be developed.
Any details on the Jalalat II class and Jurrat class missile boat?
PN has limited budget, and is mainly defensive in its mission. Large expensive prestige items such as big surface vessels should be avoided. Modern SSKs are money well spent even if they are expensive. Medium sized ships such Azmat class which packs a heavy punch and are also useful for patrols should be acquired in larger number.
My knowledge of Pakistani military is limited. Please excuse any mistakes and critique my opinions. Hope to learn more from this forum. Greeting from a Chinese friend.
 
Does Large Number of Cruise and Ballistic Missile might be the answer to counter Large Threats Like india in Naval Role?
Missile Defense’s Real Enemy: Math | Flashpoints
Read This article although this has no pakistan mentioned but it does make a point if force like Paksitan navy cant buy ships or jets what if Large number of BM's or CM's be the answers...

Which are cheaper than Ships and can be accomodated in large numbers.

To counter a large naval force like India, Pakistan should stop buying crappy edge old british and us used products like perry and Type-21.

You need a strong submarine network with at least 16 song class or higher submarines, 16 Zulfiqar+ class frigate, 24 Azmat class corvette, along with other supporting ships. You also need a strong data network and some good MPA (P-3C orion was good option). You also need a strong shore based defense system and constant monitoring of the sub surface and surface. Also a defense satellite would be good.

However, to do all those, you need a big funding which you do not have...
 
To counter a large naval force like India, Pakistan should stop buying crappy edge old british and us used products like perry and Type-21.

You need a strong submarine network with at least 16 song class or higher submarines, 16 Zulfiqar+ class frigate, 24 Azmat class corvette, along with other supporting ships. You also need a strong data network and some good MPA (P-3C orion was good option). You also need a strong shore based defense system and constant monitoring of the sub surface and surface. Also a defense satellite would be good.

However, to do all those, you need a big funding which you do not have...

Even the song class are old submarines ! The concept of this submarines is from the 1990s.
 
Even the song class are old submarines ! The concept of this submarines is from the 1990s.

Song class has concept of 90's but it is evolved and now AIP is also added if I am not wrong and new suites are of course

added ...
 
I think if PN is selling their two Agosta-70 submarines then they should put the money on German Submarine programs and invite Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan and may be Oman too. For doing JV on:
2100-2500 tons SSK
1500-1600 tons SSK(Coastal one)
700 tons For Special Forces like which can be deployed by tankers...
 
Hi, first time poster. been reading the forum for a while, just want to share some thoughts.

PN already has a counter to large navies in its SSK force. 5 modern SSK running loose will be a major headache even for the biggest navies in the world. Remember how cautious the British were with just one Argentinian sub on the loose during the Falkland War.
Second, Pakistan needs a strong maritime strike aircraft force. This is the classic lateral thinking counter to stronger navies. How many Mirages have maritime strike capabilities? JF-17 with C-802 should be good replacement as the Mirages retire. A good MPA force is of course necessary to support maritime strike. More P-3s hopefully, or Chinese Y-8 MPA as they go into production. Pakistani AWACS should also offer some maritime surveillance capabilities.
The core frigate force of around half a dozen multipurpose frigates is IMO enough. Get any additional Perry if they are available, even though they are old and doesn't have the AAW ability of modern Chinese frigate such 054A, its ASW capability is what's most needed by PN. I don't think PN should go for other old ship such as the Type 42, which doesn't have the ASW capability that PN needs. If technically possible, PN should look into upgrading the F22P with TAS, either Western or Chinese. 054A does have a modern TAS according to some sources, coupled with strong AAW, a couple 054A are useful as the core of several ASW task forces. But PN budget may not allow acquisition of 054A. In that case, maybe Pakistan can get some ASW version 056 corvette outfitted with TAS and full helicopter hanger. Similar to to the Pattani class corvette built for Thailand. But I don't think PN should devote too much resources into large surface combatants. They are expensive to man and maintain, especially the second hand ships, and during wartime, they are not useful against larger navies.
Azmat class missile boats look like very well balanced design. They have the firepower to pose a serious threat to large navies, and are flexible enough to do patrol duty during peacetime. More should be acquired. Perhaps an ASW version, with lighter missile armament, and better sonar with torpedo tube and ASW rockets can be developed.
Any details on the Jalalat II class and Jurrat class missile boat?
PN has limited budget, and is mainly defensive in its mission. Large expensive prestige items such as big surface vessels should be avoided. Modern SSKs are money well spent even if they are expensive. Medium sized ships such Azmat class which packs a heavy punch and are also useful for patrols should be acquired in larger number.
My knowledge of Pakistani military is limited. Please excuse any mistakes and critique my opinions. Hope to learn more from this forum. Greeting from a Chinese friend.

First of all welcome to Pakistan defence forum brother....

PN is buying additional 6-7 subs... while a nuclear sub is under development... 4 larger and improved F-23P frigs(said to be closer to Type 54As) have been ordered with the possibility of acquiring Type54As...Milgem is another possibility.....while chances of getting additional OPHs are to be frank.. quiet slim.... but the existing OHP Frig has been given the Genesis Combat system upgrade (from Turkiye).... more FACs are planned ... around 8(in total) if the modernisation plan is to be believed....as for Mirages... Pak Navy operates around 2 sqds (deputation from PAF) and like dozens of other mirages they have been upgraded with ROSE upgrade... but will be phased out by JF-17s... armed with C-802A,c-803,CM-400AKGs etc....while PN has around 10 PC-3 Orion hawkeyes(with Harpoon II missiles) (more requested)... and a few Hawker 800s and ATR72-212A fitted for electronic warefare etc... and around 8 AWACs...
 
Surface ships for PN are waste of money as they don't have credible air defence against supersonic cruise missiles.
PN should conc on submarines and naval aviation.They need better fighter than jf-17 to penetrate mig-29k cover.Perhaps j-11b?
 
Our only option of blocking oil to India is via the Strait of Hormuz. But even this requires are much larger navy than we currently have.
Plus that area's the international highway for oil, not just India. Blocking that would mean war with the US and UK as well.

At this point, I feel it's best for Pakistan to develop anti-ship and anti-sub capabilities to make it harder for IN to mount a blockade.

Straits of Hormuz?

You really expect US/Qatar/Iran to support you over India?
 
First of all welcome to Pakistan defence forum brother....

PN is buying additional 6-7 subs... while a nuclear sub is under development... 4 larger and improved F-23P frigs(said to be closer to Type 54As) have been ordered with the possibility of acquiring Type54As...Milgem is another possibility.....while chances of getting additional OPHs are to be frank.. quiet slim.... but the existing OHP Frig has been given the Genesis Combat system upgrade (from Turkiye).... more FACs are planned ... around 8(in total) if the modernisation plan is to be believed....as for Mirages... Pak Navy operates around 2 sqds (deputation from PAF) and like dozens of other mirages they have been upgraded with ROSE upgrade... but will be phased out by JF-17s... armed with C-802A,c-803,CM-400AKGs etc....while PN has around 10 PC-3 Orion hawkeyes(with Harpoon II missiles) (more requested)... and a few Hawker 800s and ATR72-212A fitted for electronic warefare etc... and around 8 AWACs...

Yes we have our economy problems but still we should have at least 16 to 18 Frigates by 2025 and 6 to 8 corvettes and around 30 Missile boats and 12 Submarines at least only than we can defend our selves and also backing of some good fighter jets would make it really strong Navy other wise our major enemy is getting too big this number is minimum to counter him
 
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