Alternate solution for Pakistan Navy to counter Large Navies ?

[EzioAltaïr]

What is the point of having million jawan army when we cannot destroy or capture the lost land from our small enemy .there is some thing wrong in our planning and the people who make decision i still remember Freaking big army deployment that cost us billion and lost 1000 soldier without firing a single shot. You are absolutely right that neither side have enough power to completely destroy their enemy.if these is correct then what is the point to invest billion of dollar buying weapon system when their is always cheap alternative for the enemy just to maintain the conventional balance.

The money and numbers are for:

1. We have a much larger border than Pakistan does. So even though we outnumber them 2:1, our forces always divide their attention between Pakistan and China.
2. Deterrence. Nuclear weapons aren't enough, we need a powerful conventional force to prevent misadventures.


It's not shameful to be unable to conquer territory, because they attacked us. The Lahore misadventure was not a moment of pride, but it was the farthest any side has gotten into the others' land.

 

[Mitro]

Soviet Union / Russian Role in the Indo Pakistan 1971 War.


As India had decided to go on with the war, and Indira Gandhi had failed to gain American support and sympathy for the Bengalis who were being tortured in East Pakistan, she finally took a hard move and on August 9, signed a treaty of peace, friendship and cooperation with Soviet Union.

The State Department historian says, 'in the perspective of Washington, the crisis ratcheted up a dangerous notch, India and the Soviet Union have signed a treaty of peace, friendship and cooperation.' It was a shock to America as this was what they feared, expansion of Soviet influence in South Asia. They feared that involvement of Soviet Union could sabotage their plan.

On December 4, just one day after Pakistan raided Indian airfields in Kashmir and Punjab declaring war on India, America's proxy involvement in the war was becoming clear. Thinking that the Soviet Union might enter the war if they come to know this, which could cause a lot of destruction to Pakistan and American equipment given to Pakistan, US ambassador to the United Nations George H W Bush [later 41st president of the United States and father of George Bush] introduced a resolution in the UN Security Council, calling for a cease-fire and the withdrawal of armed forces by India and Pakistan. Believing India can win the war and Indira Gandhi being determined to protect the interest of Bengalis, Soviet Union vetoed out the resolution, thus letting India fight for the cause. Nixon and Kissinger pressurized Soviets to a very extent but luck did not support them.

Did you forget American Navy's 7th fleet in Bay of Bengal in 1971. Do you really think Indira Gandhi would be sitting quiet simply with liberating Bangladesh if American help hadn't come for Pakistan.


Tashkent Agreement, (Jan. 10, 1966), accord signed by India’s prime minister Lal Bahadur Shastri (who died the next day) and Pakistan’s president Ayub Khan, ending the 17-day war between Pakistan and India of August–September 1965. A cease-fire had been secured by the United Nations Security Council on Sept. 22, 1965.

The agreement was mediated by Soviet premier Aleksey Kosygin, who had invited the parties to Tashkent. The parties agreed to withdraw all armed forces to positions held before Aug. 5, 1965; to restore diplomatic relations; and to discuss economic, refugee, and other questions. The agreement was criticized in India because it did not contain a no-war pact or any renunciation of guerrilla aggression in Kashmir.


In 1965 war, Pakistan ammunition was almost exhaust, both superpowers came for Pakistan rescue at Tashkent.


The nature of the India-Pakistan conflict took a more sinister turn when the U.S. received intelligence that Pakistani nuclear warheads were being moved towards the border. Bill Clinton tried to dissuade Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif from nuclear brinkmanship, even threatening Pakistan of dire consequences. According to a White House official, Sharif seemed to be genuinely surprised by this supposed missile movement and responded that India was probably planning the same. In an article in May 2000 Dr Sanjay Badri-Maharaj claimed that India too had readied at least five nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles, but could not back up this claim with any official proof.[90]

Sensing a deteriorating military scenario, diplomatic isolation, and the risks of a larger conventional and nuclear war, Sharif ordered the Pakistani army to vacate the Kargil heights. He later claimed in his official biography that General Pervez Musharraf had moved nuclear warheads without informing him.[91] Recently however, Pervez Musharraf revealed in his memoirs that Pakistan's nuclear delivery system was not operational during the Kargil war;[47] something that would have put Pakistan under serious disadvantage if the conflict went nuclear.

In 1999, Pervez Musharraf sent Nawaz Sharif to America to stop the war after the fall of Tololing peak. (Testimony by General Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani).

 

[Badbadman]

I believe by the time this thread finishes, Pakistani members here will convince themselves that they can defeat Indian navy by the current coast guard navy they got and second they will attack India with nuclear weapons and pakistan will still be on the face of the earth. Good luck

 

[Shinigami]

I believe by the time this thread finishes, Pakistani members here will convince themselves that they can defeat Indian navy by the current coast guard navy they got and second they will attack India with nuclear weapons and pakistan will still be on the face of the earth. Good luck

despite the bravado they show here, i am sure they now the truth... deep down

 

[alimobin memon]

despite the bravado they show here, i am sure they now the truth... deep down

Yes we "Now" the Truth rather than know the truth...

 

[Viper0011.]

Oranzeib.

YOUR NUCLEAR WEAPONS (WE KNOW YOUR A PAKISTANI ORGIN MEMBER) will get you nothing.
You cant use them on india BECAUSE they will launch a MASSIVE RETALIATION STRIKE.
Your left with your inferior conventional solutions. which are limited as your GDP and your military budget.

That's it? You done done with your rhetoric? Back to my point, you guys have crazy grandiose ideas, both of you spread terrorism across the border in each others' cities, towns, etc. And if I told you to avoid talking a nuclear war or the possibilities of it.....you guys get personal.
From what I've gathered, you guys have been told by the Pentagon multiple time and the Britts and others too. Your grandiose superior Indian military can't do anything when it comes to Pakistan as both of you guys are nuclear nations. You can build supermen and super planes but they are useless in this scenario. That's the reality of this situation. The more advanced and high tech Indian military becomes, the stronger the chances of a nuclear war as the other side would feel either weak or pre-emptive war may give them a better scenario from a results standpoint. But the reality is, both of you guys will go back 40 years. THAT's the reality. THAT's WHY I asked you to talk about things that bring people together, like politics, sports, etc,etc. Not war monger on your grandiose ideas that require a lithium pill twice a day!!!
So you can call me whoever you want to and get all the personal you want. You can't change the reality. And the reality is, the size, the military, etc, etc, don't matter in the case of India and Pakistan. Better start peace and trade before you regret peace as an option.

 

[Storm Force]

Orangzeib.

STOP PRETENDING TO BE AN AMERICAN.

NO SANE WHITE AMERICAN would call himself ORANGZEIB.

_____________________________

Has for USA telling india what to do OR what NOT to do about WAR or TRADE with Pakistan thats pure fantasy.

USA can bully and cojole Pakistan because they rely on USA handouts (grant aid) BUT INDIA is a big rising power with huge influence that cant be TOLD anything

YOU CAN ASK NICELY but telling india whats what... NO CHANCE

 

[RangerPK]

Orangzeib.

STOP PRETENDING TO BE AN AMERICAN.

NO SANE WHITE AMERICAN would call himself ORANGZEIB.

_____________________________

So if a an Israeli, or a east European or a Russian, migrates to USA and becomes its citizen can call himself an American, but if a Muslim from Pakistan migrates to USA and becomes its citizen, can not call himself an American?

 

[qamar1990]

Orangzeib.

STOP PRETENDING TO BE AN AMERICAN.

NO SANE WHITE AMERICAN would call himself ORANGZEIB.

_____________________________

Has for USA telling india what to do OR what NOT to do about WAR or TRADE with Pakistan thats pure fantasy.

USA can bully and cojole Pakistan because they rely on USA handouts (grant aid) BUT INDIA is a big rising power with huge influence that cant be TOLD anything

YOU CAN ASK NICELY but telling india whats what... NO CHANCE

he is an american just like i am an american and pakistani.

 

[Penguin]

Would you guys mind zipping it? This is supposed to be a naval forum.... post something useful.

 

[Penguin]

Would you guys mind zipping it? This is supposed to be a naval forum.... post something useful.

The topic is: Alternate solution for [small navies like the] Pakistan Navy to counter Large Navies?

 

[RazorMC]

It all started with someone suggesting ballistic missiles to counter the IN ...

Modified cruise missiles - maybe
Super extended Hellfires - also maybe

But ballistic missiles - priceless

 

[Capt.Popeye]

It all started with someone suggesting ballistic missiles to counter the IN ...

Modified cruise missiles - maybe
Super extended Hellfires - also maybe

But ballistic missiles - priceless

That suggestion is there on the Hatf-IV firing thread today. @Aeronaut believes in it and has even a "plan" on how to do it; accompanied by a map. Do take a look at it.

Priceless, yes. For everything else, there is Mastercard.

 

[JohnSeb]

Its India who should fear s blockade of oil,once Gwadar is up and running.

Gwadar port is operated by China & China won't do that when India can block the Strait Of Malacca

 

[RazorMC]

That suggestion is there on the Hatf-IV firing thread today. @Aeronaut believes in it and has even a "plan" on how to do it; accompanied by a map. Do take a look at it.

Priceless, yes. For everything else, there is Mastercard.

Aeronaut's a very senior member, so I'm not going to question his thinking much. He may have his own ideas and conlclusions that come from his analysis.
It was the other members who I was jabbing at. Blindly saying that we should launch BMs at moving targets at sea was a bit too much for my funny-bone.